Life with / after CAN (FlexRay , Ethernet DoIP) !

[stefdds]

 

[Uwe]

A few points of VAG-specific correction though:

At around 5:00, he shows a diagram of a DLC that has low speed CAN on Pin 1. That is not standard, and VAG cars don't do this. If they have anything on pin 1 (most late models do), that will be switched power, so the scan tool can tell whether the ignition is on or off.

Shortly thereafter he mentions that the "main CAN bus" is on 6 and 14. That's generally not the case on VAG vehicles either. 6 and 14 have a "blind", dedicated diagnostic CAN bus that only goes to the Gateway and nowhere else. There is no traffic on this bus unless/until the scan tool opens a session with the Gateway or some other module via the Gateway. There's one exception to this: The B7 Audi A4 (and the Seat Exeo, which was not much more than a re-badged B7) do have the powertrain CAN bus directly on pins 6 and 14 because these cars lack a CAN Gateway.

In the section on Ethernet/DoIP he implies that it's not used externally. Well, there have been VAG vehicles since MY 2016/2017 (the MLB-II chassis cars) and more recently (the ID.x and Mk.8 chassis cars) that do have Ethernet on the DLC, and it's entirely possible to do diagnostics via that Ethernet connection. Moreover, current HEX-NETs (the ones in blue shells and serial numbers starting with "HN2-") support this, although for normal diagnostic purposes, there's not much benefit to it, and all these cars still support diagnostics via CAN as well.

-Uwe-

 

[dieseldub]

A few points of VAG-specific correction though:

At around 5:00, he shows a diagram of a DLC that has low speed CAN on Pin 1. That is not standard, and VAG cars don't do this. If they have anything on pin 1 (most late models do), that will be switched power, so the scan tool can tell whether the ignition is on or off.

Shortly thereafter he mentions that the "main CAN bus" is on 6 and 14. That's generally not the case on VAG vehicles either. 6 and 14 have a "blind", dedicated diagnostic CAN bus that only goes to the Gateway and nowhere else. There is no traffic on this bus unless/until the scan tool opens a session with the Gateway or some other module via the Gateway. There's one exception to this: The B7 Audi A4 (and the Seat Exeo, which was not much more than a re-badged B7) do have the powertrain CAN bus directly on pins 6 and 14 because these cars lack a CAN Gateway.

In the section on Ethernet/DoIP he implies that it's not used externally. Well, there have been VAG vehicles since MY 2016/2017 (the MLB-II chassis cars) and more recently (the ID.x and Mk.8 chassis cars) that do have Ethernet on the DLC, and it's entirely possible to do diagnostics via that Ethernet connection. Moreover, current HEX-NETs (the ones in blue shells and serial numbers starting with "HN2-") support this, although for normal diagnostic purposes, there's not much benefit to it, and all these cars still support diagnostics via CAN as well.

-Uwe-

Dangit, now I gotta go buy another Hex-NET.

My HN1 serial no. Hex-NET has been awesome thus far, though.

Must... have... latest... and greatest.

 

[Uwe]

My HN1 serial no. Hex-NET has been awesome thus far, though.

There's no compelling reason for you to do that at this time. If/when VAG makes cars that require DoIP, we'll have some kind of upgrade path. The main reason DoIP is in the HN2 right now is because we wanted to have something ready if/when that happenes.

In fact, we were worried that the MEB platform (ID.x, etc) might require it since they are intrinsically zero-emissions vehicles and thus aren't required to support OBD-II (and thus diagnostics via CAN) at all. But it didn't turn out that way; those cars still happily talk via CAN bus.

-Uwe-

 

[dieseldub]

There's no compelling reason for you to do that at this time. If/when VAG makes cars that require DoIP, we'll have some kind of upgrade path. The main reason DoIP is in the HN2 right now is because we wanted to have something ready if/when that happenes.

In fact, we were worried that the MEB platform (ID.x, etc) might require it since they are intrinsically zero-emissions vehicles and thus aren't required to support OBD-II (and thus diagnostics via CAN) at all. But it didn't turn out that way; those cars still happily talk via CAN bus.

-Uwe-

Are you really talking me out of spending more money with Ross-Tech?

One of the rare, honest salesmen of their wares. Love it.

The product really does speak for itself.

 

[Bruce]

Are you really talking me out of spending more money with Ross-Tech?

Yes, he is and he has directed the rest of our team to do likewise.

Right now, as Uwe said, an HN2 does not give any ability that is not found in an HN1 - no car we know about is using DoIP for diagnostics. Given the tight market for chips, as the guy who has to keep bread on Uwe's bread truck, hang on to the HN1 until this chip thing passes. We need product for those who do not have the capability to work on their cars or in their place of business.

No, we are not out of stock but lead times are nuts and keeping lines running is a real challenge. We'll manage things so that all can keep their rides running as they should. We're jugglin' balls. @JMR - no wise cracks from you!

Thanks for understanding.

 

[Uwe]

Are you really talking me out of spending more money with Ross-Tech?

Yes, and it's not just due to what Bruce said, although that's definitely a factor right now.

I've always tried to get people to spend only what they need to with us; to buy whatever product in our lineup that is likely to provide the most value to them, whatever their situation might be. I've also talked people out of buying VCDS when I don't think it will help them solve whatever problem they are chasing. Customers appreciate this, remember it, and it the fact that we're still here after 20+ years in business tells me it's not a bad strategy.

-Uwe-

 

[dieseldub]

Yes, and it's not just due to what Bruce said, although that's definitely a factor right now.

I've always tried to get people to spend only what they need to with us; to buy whatever product in our lineup that is likely to provide the most value to them, whatever their situation might be. I've also talked people out of buying VCDS when I don't think it will help them solve whatever problem they are chasing. Customers appreciate this, remember it, and it the fact that we're still here after 20+ years in business tells me it's not a bad strategy.

-Uwe-

You're a good dude, Uwe. I don't care what they have to say about ya!

 

[JMR]

Yes, he is and he has directed the rest of our team to do likewise.

Right now, as Uwe said, an HN2 does not give any ability that is not found in an HN1 - no car we know about is using DoIP for diagnostics. Given the tight market for chips, as the guy who has to keep bread on Uwe's bread truck, hang on to the HN1 until this chip thing passes. We need product for those who do not have the capability to work on their cars or in their place of business.

No, we are not out of stock but lead times are nuts and keeping lines running is a real challenge. We'll manage things so that all can keep their rides running as they should. We're jugglin' balls. @JMR - no wise cracks from you!

Thanks for understanding.

Been juggling my own for past few days @Bruce , been doing 14-16 hours marathons lately