2005 A4 B7 Auto-detect CAN gateway

[cpockette]

Greetings,

By all accounts of my research, my 2005 A4 uses the CAN Bus however I get the "Function not supported by the gateway" message when running Auto-detect under Auto-Scan. The scan works if I manually select my chassis, so this is not a complaint per se, just a curiosity question. I am using HEX-V2 and VCDS 20.4.2. Could there be another reason the CAN gateway isn't recognized?

Also, here are the results of my first full scan. Thank you in advance for any help and advice.

Tuesday,18,August,2020,17:44:24:39111
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 20.4.2.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4513.4
Data version: 20200730 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUDG68E25A453163   License Plate: 


Chassis Type: 8E (8E - Audi A4/S4/RS4 B6/B7 (2001 > 2008))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 25 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 65
          67 69 75 76 77
 
VIN: WAUDG68E25A453163   Mileage: 166190km-103265miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (AUK)       Labels:. 06E-910-559-BKH.clb
   Part No SW: 8E0 910 559 D    HW: 8E0 907 559 A
   Component: 3.2l V6 FSI         0050  
   Revision: --H16---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 01040106190F0120
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 2E050C9DCC1EC90BF0F-807A

4 Faults Found:
18502 - Intake Manifold Tuning Valve (Bank 1) 
            P2070 - 006 - Stuck Open
18339 - Coolant Fan Control Module (J293) 
            P1931 - 007 - Malfunction
18438 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 1 
            P2006 - 006 - Stuck Closed - MIL ON
18439 - Intake Manifold Flap; Bank 2 
            P2007 - 006 - Stuck Closed - MIL ON
Readiness: 0010 0101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09L-927-760.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E1 910 156 B    HW: 09L 927 156 
   Component: AG6 09L 3,2 FSI USA 0020  
   Revision: --H01---    Serial number:        0084713
   Coding: 0000002
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 2615F4BDE4EE814B08F-8072

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8E0-910-517.clb
   Part No SW: 8E0 910 517 C    HW: 8E0 614 517 BB
   Component: ESP8 quattro    H04 0180  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 0004532
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 270BF9B9E3E49843339-8072

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 820 043 AL
   Component:   A4 Klimaautomat   2728  
   Coding: 00000
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 6B83C5893A9C7C23971-5184

1 Fault Found:
01312 - Powertrain Data Bus 
            79-00 - Please Check Fault Codes

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 8E0-907-279-8EC.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 907 279 J
   Component: int. Lastmodul  USA 0303  
   Coding: 01023
   Shop #: WSC 65536  
   VCID: 392F2FC100401EB355D-4B00

1 Fault Found:
01520 - Rain and Light Recognition Sensor (G397) 
            37-00 - Faulty

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 0F: Digital Radio        Labels: 8E0-035-593-XM.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 035 593 E
   Component: SDAR XM            0080   
   VCID: 2B030589FA2CBC23D71-508A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8E0-959-655-94.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E0 959 655 H    HW: 8E0 959 655 H
   Component:    Airbag 9.41  H10 3230  
   Revision: 91H10323    Serial number: 0036N0004FY%  
   Coding: 0032607
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 3C2136D50A622B9B4EB-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E0 910 339 B
   Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 02  0070  
   Serial number: 6332DRB401114DA2F
   Coding: 00032607

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342DRB40135D32FQ

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6352ARB4003E18C4O

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6362ARB4003E125DL

   Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 63729RB4003D97F9$

   Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 63829RB4003E3FBC%

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 953 549 Q
   Component: Lenksáulenmodul     0601  
   Coding: 02041
   Shop #: WSC 06335  
   VCID: 41DF4721689046731DD-4B00

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E0 920 981 N    HW: 8E0 920 981 N
   Component: KOMBI+WFS 4     H12 0040  
   Revision: 0040        Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 0021261
   Shop #: WSC 05152 444 83926
   VCID: 38292AC53E4A07BBAA3-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E0 920 981 N    HW: 8E0 920 981 N
   Component: KOMBI+WFS 4     H12 0040  
   Revision: 0040        Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 0021261
   Shop #: WSC 05152 444 83926
   VCID: 38292AC53E4A07BBAA3-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr        Labels: 8E0-959-760.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 959 760 
   Component: Sitzmemory R2 F     0305  
   Coding: 00002
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 71BFD7E1188096F3ADD-4B3C

1 Fault Found:
01447 - Sensor for Driver Seat; Height Adjust (G231) 
            36-00 - Open Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 8E0-959-433-MAX.clb
   Part No: 8E0 959 433 BT
   Component: Komfortgerát T7B    3132  
   Coding: 11836
   Shop #: WSC 06335  
   VCID: 04518E353702935B76B-4B00

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E1959801F
   Component: Tõrsteuer.FS BRM 0305  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E1959802E
   Component: Tõrsteuer.BF BRM 0205  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8E0959801A
   Component: Tõrsteuer.HL BRM 0205  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8E0959802A
   Component: Tõrsteuer.HR BRM 0205  

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 4F0-910-357.lbl
   Part No SW: 4F0 910 357 C    HW: 4F0 907 357 C
   Component: AFS 1           H01 0020  
   Revision: 00000001    Serial number:               
   Coding: 0000019
   Shop #: WSC 05152 444 64193
   VCID: 2615F4BDE4EE814B08F-8072

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E0 941 329 
   Component: AFS-Modul links H02 0020

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E0 941 329 
   Component: AFS-Modul rechtsH05 0030

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8E0-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 035 195 H
   Component: symphony II PM6    0410   
   Coding: 01005
   Shop #: WSC 70656  
   VCID: 2C010695FF22BB1BDEB-508A

No fault code found.

End------(Elapsed Time: 04:47, VBatt start/end: 13.4V/13.3V, udsna)--------

 

[Uwe]

Could there be another reason the CAN gateway isn't recognized?

Yes, because the car doesn't have one.

The B7 was a real oddity for VAG; the powertrain CAN bus is connected directly to the OBD-II port without any kind of gateway in between. It also has one (and in some cases two) K-Lines for modules that aren't connected to the powertrain CAN. This means some modules talk via CAN while others still use K-Line(s).

-Uwe-

 

[DV52]

Uwe: I don't normally not believe you when it comes to anything remotely related to VAG vehicles - but your description of the A4 CAN topology sounded so bizarre, I had to check (forgive my temporary incredulity). I needn't have done so because you are entirely correct (of course). What a strange arrangement - but then it sounds like previous A4s were equally weird!!

This from SSP_343 A4 2005

The bus topology - as with the complete electrical
system - is heavily based on the Audi A4 ‘01. As
before, the gateway is integrated in dash panel
insert J285. To diagnose on the driveline CAN bus
the control units adopted from the Audi A3 and Audi
A6, the driveline CAN bus is connected directly to
the diagnosis plug. The control units on the
convenience CAN bus and on the infotainment
CAN bus are also diagnosed via the K and
L wires (see also chapter "Diagnosis", page 10).​

Page 10 of the SSP describes how VAS manages comms for the "oddity" - but how does VCDS handle the jiggery-pokery of re-sending CAN messages across K and L lines?

This is even worse than SFD!!

Don

 

[PetrolDave]

Uwe: I don't normally not believe you when it comes to anything remotely related to VAG vehicles - but your description of the A4 CAN topology sounded so bizarre, I had to check (forgive my temporary incredulity). I needn't have done so because you are entirely correct (of course). What a strange arrangement - but then it sounds like previous A4s were equally weird!!

Having owned several B6 & B7 A4's it seems to me that the B7 was a "quick and dirty" facelift of the B6 to include the newer engine/powertrain ECUs as well as the cosmetic bodywork facelift (which resulted in headlamps that require a bumper off to replace - bad idea)..

Given the "quick and dirty" nature of the facelift VAG appear to have chosen to leave the bulk of the electrical system unchanged and just routed the powertain CAN to the previously unused CAN connections on the OBDII connector.

 

[Bruce]

Uwe: I don't normally not believe you when it comes to anything remotely related to VAG vehicles - but your description of the A4 CAN topology sounded so bizarre, I had to check (forgive my temporary incredulity). I needn't have done so because you are entirely correct (of course). What a strange arrangement - but then it sounds like previous A4s were equally weird!!

The B7 was so bazaar, that we needed one to find all the craziness in it Don. I had the privilege of driving our B7 A4 for 3 years. I loved that car. But it is a head scratcher when it comes to how they configured the electronics.

If I am not mistaken, there are still times when Eric/Shaun/Yanping/Sage have to do special programming for that platform. I bet our team would like to see them all die so they could stop wondering, "If we do this this way, what's going to happen with VCDS and the B7?"

 

[Uwe]

This is even worse than SFD!!

No, definitely not worse than SFD. But it was quite interesting in that we had the CAN stuff up and running for several years prior and it totally choked on that car. You see on a car with a proper gateway (basically all other VAG cars), the diagnostic CAN bus at the DLC only gives you messages that are responses to your requests; there isn't a whole bunch of other traffic to be filtered out from the messages you actually want. This had to be done in the interface itself, not on the PC, because the available bandwidth back to the PC on the old HEX+CAN was only 115.2 kbps, while the CAN bus was running 500 kbps...

Even the B6 was "interesting" in that it was the first car from VAG with dual K-Lines. We leased one of the launch editions here to sort that out. VAG used the over-complicated VAS 6017 adapter to handle switching between the two K-lines, and we came up with a much simpler solution in our old TWIN-COM interface.

-Uwe-

 

[DV52]

^^^^^^^^ VAS 6017 adapter? arrh......... that's the same device that's on page 10 of the SSP - I wondered what that was - looks dangerously creepy in its eviscerated state !!