EV Thread

   #541  

Andy

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I'm skeptical of the solar panels delivering that much power. I get about 4 miles per hour from 1kW on a stenchin cord. 7.5 miles/hr would be almost double that assuming similar efficiency. Rooftop solar arrays are much bigger than 5 square meters, IIRC.
 
   #542  

jyoung8607

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You're right to be skeptical, but as an example, even cut in half, that covers my wife's commute with a side trip to the grocery store with room to spare.

Plus, with the panels and charge control right on board, you get to skip a lot of wiring, plus an AC to DC conversion, possibly two if they can charge individual blocks of batteries well matched to the panel output without having to step up to the full pack voltage.
 
   #543  

Uwe

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Question is whether it really makes sense to embed the panels in the car?

For $120k I could buy an e-tron quattro or a pretty nice Tesla and put a much bigger array of panels on the roof of my garage.

Am I the only one here who would be reluctant to park a car that expensive out in the elements all the time?

-Uwe-
 
   #544  

jyoung8607

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As a matter of efficiency no, it probably makes little sense unless they made a lot of strides truly integrating solar as structural bodywork rather than just a layer on top. As a matter of convenience, possibly yes. That's what I think is interesting about their car.

Along those lines, I'm surprised we haven't seen more innovation in auto-docking of some sort. I understand electrifying roads is horrifically expensive, but I would've thought there'd be a residential (or Supercharger) docking solution by now. I know Elon had that "don't drop the soap" robot a while back, but I never saw anything else come out.
 
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   #545  

Uwe

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Along those lines, I'm surprised we haven't seen more innovation in auto-docking of some sort. I understand electrifying roads is horrifically expensive, but I would've thought there'd be a residential (or Supercharger) docking solution by now. I know Elon had that "don't drop the soap" robot a while back, but I never saw anything else come out.
Funny you should mention that. VAG already has dozens of fault codes defined for an inductive charging plate solution. From what I've been able to gather, the car will be able to position itself over the plate, which then rises out of the floor to within some minimal distance of a pickup coil in the car. I'm not sure what car this will actually be implemented in or when, but it's clearly something they're working on.

Caveat: It wouldn't be the first time they've defined fault codes for something that never got sold. They also have fault codes for 16-cylinder diesel engines. :D

-Uwe-
 
   #546  

D-Dub

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Question is whether it really makes sense to embed the panels in the car?
Yeah, that is a great question.

Ideally this kind of stuff would start on BUS's and semi's (trailers), and RV's (my dream a volt style RV primarily powered by electricity generated by solar, with some kind of 'range extender', be it gas/diesel/hydrogen or kerosene or even used fryer oil).
 
   #547  

Andy

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More on the Buzz Lightyear car:

 
   #549  

Uwe

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^^^^^^
^^^^^^^
 
   #552  

Eric

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Obd2?.....
 
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   #553  

Uwe

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A regular Niro: $23,490
A PHEV Niro: $28,500
A BEV Niro: $38,500

Seems to me that $15k would buy a lot of gasoline. So let's see if a BEV Niro make economic sense at all:

The regular Niro ostensibly gets 46 MPG (EPA Highway) and 49 (EPA Combined). Let's use 45 for the sake of argument, and let's pretend gasoline costs $3.00 per gallon, while electricity is free (which it obviously isn't).

The break-even comes no sooner than 225,000 miles.

Will the battery in the BEV go that distance?

Oh, and the regular Niro has twice the range too.

-Uwe-
 
   #554  

PetrolDave

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A regular Niro: $23,490
A PHEV Niro: $28,500
A BEV Niro: $38,500

Seems to me that $15k would buy a lot of gasoline. So let's see if a BEV Niro make economic sense at all:

The regular Niro ostensibly gets 46 MPG (EPA Highway) and 49 (EPA Combined). Let's use 45 for the sake of argument, and let's pretend gasoline costs $3.00 per gallon, while electricity is free (which it obviously isn't).

The break-even comes no sooner than 225,000 miles.

Will the battery in the BEV go that distance?

Oh, and the regular Niro has twice the range too.
Uwe - you've illustrated perfectly why EVs don't make economic sense for many people yet (despite what some EV owners and EV supporters say).

The initial cost (and interest on loans to "upgrade" from current vehicle) are high enough to make it difficult/impossible for some people to own an EV in the first place, and even then the lower running costs (as you illustrate) don't offset that within a sensible break-even distance/time - and if you add-on the cost of replacement battery pack(s) the break-even mileage/time becomes even longer.

It's easy for politicians to promise net-zero emissions by 2050 (as the outgoing UK Prime Minister has done recently) but then they don't have to pay the cost of their grandeose gestures :banghead:
 
   #555  

D-Dub

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I've probably said it before, and no doubt will have to say it again, EV is less about cost efficiency than about trying to protect the future.

Will we already have to be at the mad max point, before people understand that oil won't last forever?

And while the first party economics may look grim, try that again with the secondary market vehicles.

I bought a 3 year old 40k+ vehicle for ~15k. Whether it was initially overpriced, or undervalued at 3 years, who can say.

I plan to drive it till the wheels fall off or the last cell gives up the ghost.

it still may or may not beat a pure gas vehicle, but it is heading the direction where we need to get to.

and to Uwe's point above, the PHEV's looks like they will continue to be a more economical option for the near future anyway.
 
   #556  

PetrolDave

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EV is less about cost efficiency than about trying to protect the future.
Which is all well and good if you have the finances that allow you to purchase an EV - certainly in the UK even the cheapest used EVs are still considerably more expensive than many used gas/diesel vehicles so for many people who need personal transport (because they live in areas where there is no public transport) they are not an option yet. Add to that the currently very limited charging infrastructure in many areas away from the major conurbations, and you have a situation where even if the economics work the practicalities don't.

Keeping your job and feeding your family today is a higher priority for many than protecting the future - survival in the short term is more important to them than protecting the long term. Sad but that's the economic reality for many in the First World not just the Second and Third Worlds :(
 
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   #557  

D-Dub

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sure, no doubt.

no one who is in survival mode should be buying any new car, and even if/when new ICE vehicles fall to the side, there is still an enormous depth to the secondary market (ICE or *EV) and the buyer should be buying according to their own need situation from whatever available sources.

Or using public transportation (which would be great if we should all be using more, eh?).
 
   #558  

PetrolDave

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Or using public transportation (which would be great if we should all be using more, eh?).
In many rural areas there simply is NO public transportation, so personal mobility is an absolute must-have.
 
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