Remote shutoff/disable

[somedude]

Hi everybody,


Just wondering, unless this is a tabu subject, if it is possible for a hacker to remotely disable or shut the car off.
In theory, this could be accomplished in several ways:
- cars that have access to internet via a dedicated app
- cars that have access to an IoT internet/network
- via bluetooth and a phone that is connected to the radio
- via satellite enabled radios
- via a signal transmitted over FM (somehow)

I tried to list all possible connectivity methods and receivers in a vehicle.

Thoughts?

 

[Uwe]

-Uwe-

 

[stefdds]

 

[somedude]

Sooo…. what’s the deal?

Can’t talk about this subject?
Too political?
No-one will engage a nutcase like me?

Which is it?

 

[PetrolDave]

Is this one of those questions where you don't want the answers on a public forum as it would give nefarious persons ideas?

 

[somedude]

Loud and clear.

 

[Uwe]

In theory, this could be accomplished in several ways:

Yes, in theory. But in practice? Who knows. I would say it's likely feasible for cars with telematics modules.

-Uwe-

 

[Ronaldo]

New vulnerability lets attackers hijack Chrysler vehicles remotely

A new vulnerability in the Uconnect system gives attackers frightening remote powers over Chrysler vehicles, revealed in a Wired exclusive report. In a live demo, attackers used the vulnerability...

www.theverge.com

 

[Ronaldo]

"The most disturbing maneuver came when they cut the Jeep's brakes, leaving me frantically pumping the pedal as the 2-ton SUV slid uncontrollably into a ditch."

Hackers Remotely Kill a Jeep on the Highway—With Me in It

I was driving 70 mph on the edge of downtown St. Louis when the exploit began to take hold.

www.wired.com

 

[Uwe]

@Ronaldo

Yep, via "Telematics". I suspect this is one reason why FCA (now Stellantis) introduced their "Security Gateway" in 2018 or thereabouts; as a means of separating the systems.

-Uwe-

 

[JMR]

my 2 cents : i'd think all of the above mentioned are possible as scenarios. Given the extent the cars are nowdays connected to internet/satellites and what have you..yes..It's like you wonder if the Alphabet company is able to shut down your phone or your service carrier is able to do it.I am sure they can listen to you while you're in the car, track you ,derail your plans. Or..a hacker. Just for fun..or for a sum...

 

[Uwe]

Address 75: Telematics (J949)       Labels:| 5QE-035-285.clb
   Part No SW: 5QE 035 285 A    HW: 5QE 035 285 A
   Component: OCULowMQBUS   009 0570  
....
MAS13730-Radio mode -- not activated

-Uwe-

 

[JMR]

what , you don't trust them ???

OCULowMQBUS...sounds francmasonic..i read it OCULUS )

 

[somedude]

Address 75: Telematics (J949)       Labels:| 5QE-035-285.clb
   Part No SW: 5QE 035 285 A    HW: 5QE 035 285 A
   Component: OCULowMQBUS   009 0570
....
MAS13730-Radio mode -- not

 

[Jetta 97]

To much Fast and Furious movies

 

[jyoung8607]

Depends on what you're trying to do. It's always easier to break stuff than to make stuff work, and therefore easier to make a car stop working than it is to remotely control it in a meaningful way.

If you have CAN access, there exist several control channels to make the vehicle *stop*. Off the top of my head, ACC, Emergency Assist (really just a magic way to trigger ACC engagement and set the speed setpoint to zero), AEB, RCTA, ECD (not sure if you can do this on a MQB), airbag-driven post-collision braking. Maybe Telematics but unproven. There are fewer channels to make it go (really just ACC). It's technically possible to make a DSG transmission shift gears as long as it's not in Park.

Telematics is obviously the first communications channel. In fact, I think there IS a remote slowdown or shutdown capability alluded to in the measuring value/adaptation dumps we've seen along with some phantom DTCs we've seen in scans before, but I don't think it's been marketed or rolled out, and I'm not sure how real it is.

Compromising the car via the infotainment (via any means, satellite or FM or bluetooth or traffic broadcast or whatever) is iffy. The gateway does do some filtering of messaging between CAN buses, that's its entire job. I've actually tried to make UDS work across buses for non-nefarious purposes and didn't get far, which would hopefully slow down an attacker. That said, there exists *some* channel for Telematics to produce vehicle health reports, and I'm not sure all that stuff is broadcast in normal CAN messaging. I"m actually not sure what bus 75-Telematics is on; all of my experiments were done from Extended CAN.

The CAN stuff can sound scary, but there are usually quite robust protections to make sure true physical driver inputs override any ADAS stuff. Bear in mind if a sophisticated attacker has unsupervised physical access to the car, it's always game over at that point. They could replace the gas pedal with something that would provide spoofed potentiometer inputs, or simply cut brake lines, etc.

 

[EuroX]

Why bother with that?? For 25K I can sell you a device that will open the start any audi you walk up to as long as its got keyless entry and ignition.


Is it possible maybe, however there are numerous safeguards against this, I am not saying its not possible and im sure there are some holes in software but in order to test and implement you would have a reverse engineer quite a bit of code and for what?? So you can just turn the car off? Possible to a degree but have a better chance of disabling a vehicle with a EMP blast.