VIN-Limited Interface FAQ

   #81  

Mike@Gendan

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If its actually NOT required to register a VIN, why does the software ask to do so? One moment of inattention and you have lost 1 VIN... Luckily I have bought an unlimited VIN interface ;)
It takes more than inattention - you need to manually enter the last 3 digits of the VIN.

I think the idea is that if a VIN nag screen appears frequently enough to bother you, you should be on an Unlimited license anyway ;)
 
   #82  

PetrolDave

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It takes more than inattention - you need to manually enter the last 3 digits of the VIN.
Maybe if the task can be completed without registering a VIN the popup should make it clear that entering the last 3 digits of the VIN is optional?
 
   #83  

Mike@Gendan

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Maybe if the task can be completed without registering a VIN the popup should make it clear that entering the last 3 digits of the VIN is optional?
As I understand it, if you see that message and click cancel, if the VIN isn't compulsory it'll perform the function anyway, so that may be a bit redundant
 
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   #84  

DV52

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^^^ Mike- with respect, I understand your point, but in support of Dave's question - this type of rationale assumes that normal users of HEX series cables/dongles have the information that is needed to make these informed decisions.

Yes, now that the original question was raised and given that Uwe has confirmed what happens if the user doesn't follow the instruction in the "Add VIN confirm" dialogue box - this information is available to the (handful?) of users/forum members that have read this thread. BUT - really? Does the information in a few posts hidden (perhaps the wrong word) in the RT forum come anywhere close to countervailing the clear instruction in the "Add VIN confirm" dialogue-box that EVERY user confronts when deciding how to proceed?

I have absolutely no understanding how the software designers @ RT weave their magic - but I would suspect that their craft is underpinned by the knowledge that (by definition) 50% of HEX series users have a sub-100 IQ!!;). I'm being "facial" (facetious) of course - but my point is that it is reasonable for users to assume that when a pop-up box instruction appears in VCDS software, it's a genuine and necessary decision point. And, it's reasonable for a user to assume that if the "cancel" option is selected - the act of doing so will cancel the action.

So-bottom line. The way that any software interacts with a user should make it abundantly clear what decision is needed (either way - to proceed, or not) IMO. If a VIN is needed to proceed, then the dialogue-box is legitimate -if a VIN is not needed, then the dialogue-box is in error IMO.

Don
 
   #85  

Uwe

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So-bottom line. The way that any software interacts with a user should make it abundantly clear what decision is needed (either way - to proceed, or not) IMO. If a VIN is needed to proceed, then the dialogue-box is legitimate -if a VIN is not needed, then the dialogue-box is in error IMO.
It is not in error. It is intentional. I'm not going to get into the exact reasons why it occurs there except to agree with Mike in post #81.

As far as being clear, how is a [Cancel] button in that dialog unclear? It means, "No, I don't want to register this VIN".

-Uwe-
 
   #86  

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As far as being clear, how is a [Cancel] button in that dialog unclear? It means, "No, I don't want to register this VIN".
Since the dialog appears BEFORE the Clear All DTCs is actioned, it is maybe not unreasonable to assume that [Cancel] will also cancel the Clear All DTCs action and not just cancel the Add VIN action?
 
   #87  

Mike@Gendan

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Yes, now that the original question was raised and given that Uwe has confirmed what happens if the user doesn't follow the instruction in the "Add VIN confirm" dialogue box - this information is available to the (handful?) of users/forum members that have read this thread. BUT - really? Does the information in a few posts hidden (perhaps the wrong word) in the RT forum come anywhere close to countervailing the clear instruction in the "Add VIN confirm" dialogue-box that EVERY user confronts when deciding how to proceed?
...
- but my point is that it is reasonable for users to assume that when a pop-up box instruction appears in VCDS software, it's a genuine and necessary decision point. And, it's reasonable for a user to assume that if the "cancel" option is selected - the act of doing so will cancel the action.
I understand your (and Dave's) point, but you're looking at it from the point of view of someone who is used to unlimited usage.
The majority of owners of a 3-VIN interface (in our experience at least) are home users with 1 or 2 cars, who will rarely (if ever) plug into a car they don't own, and so may only ever see a VIN entry screen once for each car they own.
Even the 10-VIN users we sell to tend to be home users with a couple of cars who want to future proof themselves for when they replace the cars.
For these people seeing a VIN warning is a good reminder that they are plugged into a new vehicle, and should think about what they are doing. If they click cancel and the function works anyway, that's a welcome bonus.

The other type of 10-VIN user is enthusiasts who regularly use VCDS on friends' cars, or even small workshops.
For these users I would suggest, as Uwe intimated, it's more to do with my previous post (#81). The goal is for users to buy the version of interface that reflects the way they actually use it.
If you're an enthusiast and you cancel a VIN pop-up and the function runs anyway - happy days.
If the uncertainty of that happens frequently enough to annoy you, you're seeing VIN nag screens too often, which would suggest you're on the wrong license :)
 
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   #88  

PetrolDave

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I understand your (and Dave's) point, but you're looking at it from the point of view of someone who is used to unlimited usage.
The majority of owners of a 3-VIN interface (in our experience at least) are home users with 1 or 2 cars, who will rarely (if ever) plug into a car they don't own, and so may only ever see a VIN entry screen once for each car they own.
Mike - you appear to be (incorrectly) assuming that I have an unlimited VIN interface, I don't! ;) The only time I have seen that popup is when I've used VCDS the first time on a car I've just bought.

Mike@Gendan said:
If they click cancel and the function works anyway, that's a welcome bonus.
That's fine if you are a confident user, but it's an inescapable fact that not all people are that confident (especially new users and even some long time users) and could easily assume that if they don't enter a VIN and instead hit Cancel then the Clear All DTCs won't execute.

Even 10 VIN users might not see this popup often enough to remember what the effect of hitting Cancel will be.

For all my career writing software I have always tried to look at everything from the point of view of the most inexperienced user (expert users don't need any help...) and in cases like this where the popup is potentially confusing (will the Clear All DTCs still work if I press Cancel :confused:) then IMHO the software should be tweaked to remove any potential confusion.
 
   #89  

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If its actually NOT required to register a VIN, why does the software ask to do so? One moment of inattention and you have lost 1 VIN... Luckily I have bought an unlimited VIN interface ;)
Yeah, it's not immediately obvious. I'm a software engineer and I guess you could say I should have tried clicking the Cancel button but using the development adage of "don't make me think", it should have been obvious what I was expected to do. Sorry if it seems like I'm complaining but when you're limited to 3 VINs, it's important to know when it's required to use them. Which in this case I did to clear the codes. I just assumed the T&Cs had maybe changed since I last read them about what you could do without registering a VIN. So now I've used 2 out of my 3 VINs :(
 
   #90  

sparkymark75

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Since the dialog appears BEFORE the Clear All DTCs is actioned, it is maybe not unreasonable to assume that [Cancel] will also cancel the Clear All DTCs action and not just cancel the Add VIN action?
Yup. If you click a button to perform an action, and then on the next dialog you are presented with a set of OK and Cancel buttons. It's reasonable to assume that clicking Cancel will cancel the action you requested. Sorry if it seems like I/we are splitting hairs here but as I mentioned in my last post, this stuff is important when you have a limited VIN license.
 
   #91  

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I've edited the first post in this thread. Under What functions are VIN-Restricted?, it used to say:

In addition, directly accessing a control module outside of an Auto-Scan will prompt the user whether he wants to "register" that car's VIN, but declining to do so at that point will not prevent access to the module.
I've now added the following to that paragraph:
The same is true for the "Clear All DTCs" function. It will ask whether you wish to register a VIN, but declining to do so will not prevent the function from working.
-Uwe-
 
   #92  

Mike@Gendan

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Mike - you appear to be (incorrectly) assuming that I have an unlimited VIN interface, I don't! ;) The only time I have seen that popup is when I've used VCDS the first time on a car I've just bought.
I was directing that more towards Don, but you've actually proved my point.
As an experienced user who spends so much (helpful) time on the forums, you are unusually familiar with the fact that VIN popups appear for this kind of thing.

As you said though, you've only ever seen it once on each new car you've bought. If it wasn't for your time helping out on the forums, would you even know this was an issue?
The vast majority of users will not come across this foible, and even if they do most will not think it a problem.

That's fine if you are a confident user, but it's an inescapable fact that not all people are that confident (especially new users and even some long time users) and could easily assume that if they don't enter a VIN and instead hit Cancel then the Clear All DTCs won't execute.
If you're worried DTCs will be cleared when you expect them not to be, from the flow of message windows Andy posted up, by the time you see a VIN prompt you've already been asked twice "Are you SURE"? ;)
 
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   #93  

sparkymark75

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I've edited the first post in this thread. Under What functions are VIN-Restricted?, it used to say:



I've now added the following to that paragraph:


-Uwe-
Thanks Uwe. It would be useful if the UI in future revisions of the software could be updated to also make it clearer as (unfortunately) not everyone will read the FAQ.
 
   #94  

PetrolDave

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The vast majority of users will not come across this foible, and even if they do most will not think it a problem.
As a senior development engineer at Ford Research at Dunton in Essex said to me "when something goes wrong someone will tell seven times more people than when it works as expected".

Small, apparently unimportant, things like this can cause sufficient reputational damage than the effort in changing/fixing them is money/time well spent.
 
   #95  

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Does using the OBD2/EOBD Mode require a VIN?
 
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Hi Nico,

not really but please note the below from: https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?8869

"...In addition, directly accessing a control module outside of an Auto-Scan will prompt the user whether he wants to "register" that car's VIN, but declining to do so at that point will not prevent access to the module. The same is true for the "Clear All DTCs" function. It will ask whether you wish to register a VIN, but declining to do so will not prevent the function from working."
 
   #97  

hadez16

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Thank you very much for pointing that out, I didn't notice that.

Isn't that a bit odd?:rolleyes:
 
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