#4 Coilpack Keeps Going Out

jblue20th · Aug 31, 2016

I have a stage 1 tuned 2003 GTI [AWP] that seems to be eating #4 coilpacks. I have killed 3 of them in less than 2 weeks, which immediately makes me think something else is going on. First time it happened I was accelerating and I started misfiring hard. Turned around, got home, scanned, found #2 & #4 intermittent misfires, grabbed 2 "old but good" coilpacks out of the garage, and away I went. Until that afternoon, when accelerating again #4 went out. Got home, swapped an old-but-good in, and that worked for about a week. Today I felt it miss a couple times under heavy load. So I took it easy on it, but I was an hour away from home and ended up limping on 2 or 3 cylinders the last 15 minutes. I just put in the last of my old-but-goods, and ran it around the block with no hesitation. I think it's weird that #4 always goes, and #2 went with it on the two times I've had to limp home, though #2 goes "intermittent,"#4 is just solid misfire, as you'll see in the autoscan below. I also think it's weird that it starts to happen under heavy, almost WOT load, then progessively gets worse until the coilpack is totally dead, or so it appears. This happens whether I'm using the stock tune or a 93 octane stage 1 tune, I've switched it over 2 times while this has happened.

I put new plugs in after the first go-around, and the old plugs looked fine. I want to think putting in all new coilpacks would fix it, but that's a $125 mistake waiting to happen, I feel. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

Code:

Wednesday,31,August,2016,20:23:12:59113
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 16.8.0.3 (x64)
Data version: 20160803 DS255
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: 9BWKE61J634078581   License Plate: 


Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
          76
 
VIN: 9BWKE61J634078581   Mileage: 246980km-153466miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-AJQ.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 032 KP
   Component: 1.8T S2V5.0     G01 0005  
   Coding: 07510
   Shop #: WSC 21591  
   VCID: 76E3BB275221D4F28A-5140
   9BWKE61J634078581     VWZ7Z0C7130981

3 Faults Found:
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
            P0300 - 35-00 - 
16688 - Cylinder 4 
            P0304 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16686 - Cylinder 2 
            P0302 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
Readiness: 0010 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102  
   Coding: 0019970
   Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
   VCID: 3467412F54DD86E274-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
   Component: 0S AIRBAG VW61 0108 0003  
   Coding: 12371
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 275DA663C50BFD7AC1-5106

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J6 920 906 
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V07  
   Coding: 07234
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 6BD59A531963191A65-5106
   9BWKE61J634078581     VWZ7Z0C7130981

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 70EF8D3F3045FAC250-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 8B Komfortgerát HLO 0003  
   Coding: 00064
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 377D762315AB6DFA51-4B00

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 8B Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0009  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 8B Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0009  

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 3B7-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No: 3B7 035 180 E
   Component:    Radio ZSW        0010  
   Coding: 00031
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 224BB777AE29185296-5124

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 05:17)--------------------------

Jack@European_Parts · Aug 31, 2016

Making the same mistakes over and over is a bad thing.
You need to install a revised harness and with ground enhancements.
Then you should install coil part number 06B-905-115E brand Hitachi.....
Colder plug maybe in order if CF higher than 6.

jblue20th · Sep 1, 2016

Jack,
I totally agree, which is why I am using old parts to troubleshoot. If it was just a coilpack issue I wouldn't think I would see the same cylinder go down 3 times, which is why I'm asking for help here. I suppose I can go through the coilpack check in Bentley to see if I have any funny grounds...?

-I have already installed the updated overlay wiring harness per the tech bulletin. (https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-337_20AE--1.8T/Engine/Ignition/Repair_Harness/ES2506749)
-I have also installed the Mk5 wiring harness protective hard plastic tube that protects the wiring harness on the head (https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-337_20AE--1.8T/Engine/Ignition/Coil/ES281285/).
-I am reinstalling used-but-good OEM Mk4 packs to troubleshoot (so I know it's likely they're just popping from old age and sitting, but it seems like something has to be driving the "overstress" condition), but I was running Mk6 Bosch coilpacks for about 20k miles (https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_VI--2.0T/Engine/Ignition/ES2718679/). I notice the plastic cracked from the metal base up about 2" on both #2 and #4 when I pulled them...possibly grounding to the head?
-I have been running NGK BKR7E plugs (one heat range colder than stock) since my tune runs about 21psi.

With all of this, it seems curious that I am popping the same cylinder coilpack each time, and that it looks like it takes #2 down with it, though last night I only changed #4 and drove into work fine this morning after clearing #2 and #4 misfire codes. I am NOT running the car hard, however, as that's when the coilpack goes. What would cause that? The plugs are BRAND new (less than 1k on them), and the plugs I just took out look great. I do not want to install new Hitachi packs just to start popping them again. I think I'm just blowing old coilpacks that I'm using for testing now, but wanted to see if there was another possible cause. I really don't want to start misfiring near redline when autocrossing again in 2 weeks!

Jack@European_Parts · Sep 1, 2016

Jack,
I totally agree, which is why I am using old parts to troubleshoot. If it was just a coilpack issue I wouldn't think I would see the same cylinder go down 3 times, which is why I'm asking for help here. I suppose I can go through the coilpack check in Bentley to see if I have any funny grounds...?

-I have already installed the updated overlay wiring harness per the tech bulletin. (https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen...ness/ES2506749)
-I have also installed the Mk5 wiring harness protective hard plastic tube that protects the wiring harness on the head (https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen...Coil/ES281285/).
-I am reinstalling used-but-good OEM Mk4 packs to troubleshoot (so I know it's likely they're just popping from old age and sitting, but it seems like something has to be driving the "overstress" condition), but I was running Mk6 Bosch coilpacks for about 20k miles (https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen...ion/ES2718679/). I notice the plastic cracked from the metal base up about 2" on both #2 and #4 when I pulled them...possibly grounding to the head?
-I have been running NGK BKR7E plugs (one heat range colder than stock) since my tune runs about 21psi.

With all of this, it seems curious that I am popping the same cylinder coilpack each time, and that it looks like it takes #2 down with it, though last night I only changed #4 and drove into work fine this morning after clearing #2 and #4 misfire codes. I am NOT running the car hard, however, as that's when the coilpack goes. What would cause that? The plugs are BRAND new (less than 1k on them), and the plugs I just took out look great. I do not want to install new Hitachi packs just to start popping them again. I think I'm just blowing old coilpacks that I'm using for testing now, but wanted to see if there was another possible cause. I really don't want to start misfiring near redline when autocrossing again in 2 weeks!

What you have done and purchased is causing further FOD.....further is garbage!
Looks like you drank the Kool-Aid.

Using MK5/6 coil packs is a mistake, and these packs are of the same exact power stage internally........additionally a smaller coil winding.

I guess it's time I post a proper coil harness repair, and or enhancements that are far past OEM; & what is acceptable for a quality repair verse what Isn't!

Uwe · Sep 1, 2016

Jack@European_Parts said:
I guess it's time I post a proper coil harness repair, and or enhancements that are far past OEM; & what is acceptable for a quality repair verse what Isn't!

Uwe · Sep 1, 2016

FWIW, I moved Jack's reply to its own thread in the How To's and Tips section.

-Uwe-

Dutchie · Sep 1, 2016

Please check the dwell of the ignition coil. If the same one blows up in a short period of time, the change is big that the wiring is making a short to positive or negitief thus causing the coil to heat up to long and it weares out.

Jack@European_Parts · Sep 1, 2016

Please check the dwell of the ignition coil. If the same one blows up in a short period of time, the change is big that the wiring is making a short to positive or negitief thus causing the coil to heat up to long and it weares out.

Or insufficiency ...........

jblue20th · Sep 2, 2016

Jack@European_Parts said:
What you have done and purchased is causing further FOD.....further is garbage!
Looks like you drank the Kool-Aid.

Using MK5/6 coil packs is a mistake, and these packs are of the same exact power stage internally........additionally a smaller coil winding.

I guess it's time I post a proper coil harness repair, and or enhancements that are far past OEM; & what is acceptable for a quality repair verse what Isn't!

How am I FODing anything?

Interesting about the Mk5/6 packs, from everything I read they were more robust. Apparently I'm wrong. I'll get the Hitachi's.

I guess running the OEM upgraded overlay harness from the coilpacks to the ECU, including heat shielding and proper grounding isn't good enough. Please enlighten me, oh wise one, how to do a proper coil harness repair, instead of berating me for doing it wrong (per the VW Tech Bulletin).

jblue20th · Sep 2, 2016

Dutchie said:
Please check the dwell of the ignition coil. If the same one blows up in a short period of time, the change is big that the wiring is making a short to positive or negitief thus causing the coil to heat up to long and it weares out.

Can I do that with VCDS, or do I need to setup a clamp-on ammeter and such?

Based on the ignition refresher I just read (http://www.dtec.net.au/Ignition Coil Dwell Calibration.htm), and Jack's comment about the Mk5/6 coilpacks having a smaller coil, sounds like a weak ground on 4 causing internal insulation to break down under high voltage/high load conditions. I wonder if my tuner re-wrote the dwell map....that would make sense to me, I had these coilpacks in for at least 20k, but just tuned 2 months ago, and this issue just came up. I'm going to email him and see, just out of curiousity.

Thanks for the feedback, I like to try to find the problem BEFORE changing parts or re-wiring things.

Jack@European_Parts · Sep 2, 2016

How am I FODing anything?

Interesting about the Mk5/6 packs, from everything I read they were more robust. Apparently I'm wrong. I'll get the Hitachi's.

I guess running the OEM upgraded overlay harness from the coilpacks to the ECU, including heat shielding and proper grounding isn't good enough. Please enlighten me, oh wise one, how to do a proper coil harness repair, instead of berating me for doing it wrong (per the VW Tech Bulletin).

Your car is modified is it not?

I have a stage 1 tuned 2003 GTI

That's FOD.............

Don't believe it just because some asshole marketed a lie........ and made some coil holders.

Affirmative!....... the overlay harness the OEM offers......... is the same size wire and the same shit connection types at the VC, ..........you know the cast aluminum ground point.
Fact .......cast aluminum through a head gasket, and a cast iron block, is a poor conductor.

I am not berating you, just tired of the uneducated learning the public with scams, or as an angle to be an improvement.
Don't you feel betrayed?
Why sir do you think a TSB exists, maybe ask yourself that question first.......... with why we are here?

I'm thinking of telling a story one day.............once everyone is sitting Indian style, and the teacher puts the lights out to quiet you down.
I'm not your host.......I'm the "guest"........ so be polite and go read the new sticky!

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?7494-Coil-Pack-amp-Associated-Wiring-Upgrades

Just kidding.......... ask questions for what you don't understand..........

NostraJackAss has Spoken!

#4 Coilpack Keeps Going Out

jblue20th

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Jack@European_Parts

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jblue20th

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Jack@European_Parts

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Uwe

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Uwe

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Dutchie

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Jack@European_Parts

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jblue20th

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jblue20th

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Jack@European_Parts

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