New Beetle 2003 ECU No communication. All other modules OK

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   #1  
LucaDN

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Hi, this is my first post. I recently bought (for my daughter) a 2003 New Beetle 1.6 (I live in the UK).
There were a bunch of fault codes in it that I am going to fix (coolant thermostat and temperature sensor, MAF, other minor issues ...)
The ones that made me worry a bit were MAF related, as even after replacing the MAF sensor (maybe it was not necessary, but given its age it seemed a good thing to do anyway), I still had a fault code coming out. Probably a leak I thought.
But the car was running great with no other problems. I kept it like that for about two months, then one day I decided to have a closer look and finally discovered a broken plastic hose just after the MAF body (to the secondary air pump). Bingo. I didn't notice it at first. Now this is what happened next:

- Very happy with my discovery, I fixed the plastic hose (temporarily with some duct tape).
- Put the engine cover back in place, and connected to the OBD port in order to reset the fault codes. I was pretty sure the MAF fault code would never appear again.
- and ...

01314 - Engine Control Module
49-00 - No Communications

Engine cranks but won't start.

Since then, I've never been able to communicate with the ECU again. All other modules are OK without fault codes (besides of course the 01314 which is there out of 'sympathy' for the ECU)

VCDS Port Test is fine:

PortTest.png


I am lost, how could I cause that damage? I checked all the fuses and they are OK.
I borrowed an ECU from a friend, put that one in (I know it would not work due to the immobilizer and all) and I wasn't able to communicate either, so I guess the ECU is OK.

Any idea? Should I try disconnecting all the modules, as suggested elsewhere? It doesn't make sense to me as they are communicating OK.

I would really appreciate your advice.

Thanks!
 
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   #2  
LucaDN

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I don't know if it can be of any use in this particular case, but here is the result of the scan:

Code: 
Monday,03,December,2018,12:10:05:35321
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 18.9.0.4 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4436.4
Data version: 20181017 DS296.0
www.Ross-Tech.com

Dealer/Shop Name: LucaDN

VIN: WVWZZZ9CZ3M613663   License Plate: 
Mileage: 105510km-65560mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 9C (9C - VW New Beetle (1999 > 2010))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 25 29 35 37 39 46 54 56 65 75
 
VIN: WVWZZZ9CZ3M613663   Mileage: 105510km-65560miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102  
   Coding: 0011266
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 3430EADCC223F0374A3-5160

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 A
   Component: 1T AIRBAG VW51 0D   0006  
   Coding: 12628
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 221C1C846DD76E87A8F-4B3C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1C0-920-x4x.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 920 920 C
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. M73 V08  
   Coding: 01412
   Shop #: WSC 00193  
   VCID: 1D662F7854A9517F95D-4B1E
   WVWZZZ9CZ3M613663     VWZ5Z0B9028162

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    V082  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 70B826CCF3BB8C176EB-4B1E

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 F
   Component: 2Q Komfortgerát HLO 0004  
   Coding: 00064
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 3A2CC4E4E547064790F-4B00

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 2Q Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0009  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 2Q Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0004  

4 Faults Found:
01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded 
            35-00 -  - 
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220) 
            27-00 - Implausible Signal
00933 - Electric Window Motor; Passenger Side (V148) 
            62-10 - No or Incorrect Adjustment - Intermittent
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221) 
            27-00 - Implausible Signal

End----(Elapsed Time: 03:56, VBatt start/end: 11.7V/11.9V. VIgn 11.9V)-----

One of the locks is stuck, don't know if the problem is mechanical or electric. It's always been like that anyway.
The radio is aftermarket but the connector (the adapter, actually) is OK. And just to be on the safe side, I removed it (radio AND adapter) prior to performing tests.
 
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Uwe

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Engine Control Module is definitely off-line. VCDS can't talk to it via the K-line, and some of the other modules can't talk to it via the internal CAN bus.

Most likely it's not getting power. It needs both switched and unswitched power to be awake, communicate, and actually do essential things like fire the fuel injectors and ignition coils at the appropriate times. If all the fuses are good (are you really, really sure?) then perhaps a bad relay an/or some connector has not been plugged back in after your work?

I do not think there's any point in disconnecting other modules in this case.

-Uwe-
 
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LucaDN

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Thanks for your reply.

I tested all the fuses for continuity but there's no harm in doing it again. Fingers crossed.
I did not check the relays, I can do that as well.
The only thing i did was wrapping in duct tape a plastic hose, so no connectors to plug back in. I actually did not disconnect the battery either, no electrical part being involved.
I might have moved / stretched something.

In order to see if the ECU is getting power, I need the harness pinout for it. My ECU is a Simos3.3A:

myECU2.jpg


And the only diagram I've found for the connector is this one:

Simos3Harness.png


I will try to find an official wiring diagram to be sure it's correct.
Anything in particular that I need to check? Or just the +12 on the harness?

Thanks for your quick support. Great forum.
 
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Uwe

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   #6  
LucaDN

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Pin assignment in the picture above is consistent with official diagram (downloaded from erWin VW).
I'll try to track the issue down today.
Ground connection should not be an issue considering that it's taken from a ground point close to the harness. I'll cross check anyway, thanks.

Harness.png
 
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Jef

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Just a real quick footnote, the ECM is not directly connected to the "K-Line". T121/17 is a "W" line. Long and short of it, the K-Line goes to the Instrument Cluster T32/25 (blue) and T32a/5 (green) is the W line that runs to the ECM. Those two points are connected inside the cluster.... but the cluster can fail and prevent VCDS from scanning the ECM. If one removes the cluster and runs a jumper wire between T32/25 and T32a/5, then the ECM can be reached again.

I doubt this is your issue because most times when this happens, other modules don't have ECM no comm type codes... so I would stick with your current game plan of checking power/grounds first.
 
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LucaDN

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Thanks for the additional info, Jef.

So, I checked again all the fuses, and they are OK. I also probed the contact for fuse 10 (ECM, ECM Power Relay) and it was +12 with Ignition on.
Then i probed the ECU harness, and it was dead (0V with ignition on). No power supply to the ECU, as expected.
It would be nice to know how to follow the wiring through the chassis, but unfortunately I don't think that's covered in the manual.

I suppose next step is testing the ECM relay. I tried to pull it out but it was stuck and I could not see if there was a release mechanism so I gave up for today. Car is parked outside and it's getting dark.
ECMRelay.png


I could not honestly see any damaged wire, nor imagine a point or junction that I could have stretched or damaged.
Do you think I should go on and check the relay or do you have something else you believe it's worth trying?
Any procedure I should follow, in your opinion?

Thanks again :thanks:
 
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LucaDN

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Ahem ...
I suppose it's not a good idea to bring 12V to the ECU by T-Splicing the harness wire which is supposed to have 12V, correct? :o
I mean, just to test if this is the only problem. Don't shoot me, please, I am getting frustrated. I would avoid the dealership if possible, bad reviews and extremely expensive
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Ahem ...
I suppose it's not a good idea to bring 12V to the ECU by T-Splicing the harness wire which is supposed to have 12V, correct? :o
I mean, just to test if this is the only problem. Don't shoot me, please, I am getting frustrated. I would avoid the dealership if possible, bad reviews and extremely expensive
Click to expand...

Nah send it from the ECU supply relay tower by jump out and are you missing terminals 30 and 15 for B+ and B+ Switched?

What is condition of J59 X contact relay?


Vehicle Identification No.WVWZZZ9CZ3M613663
ModelNew Beetle
BE
Date of production15.11.2002
Year2003
Sales type1C13D4
Engine CodeBFS
Transmission CodeFCH




Code: 


Special editionsE0AWithout special action equipment
Lockable wheel bolts1PAStandard wheel bolts
Vehicle class differentiation
units/platform components0CUVehicle class differentiation -1C0-
Emission standard0GGEmission standard EU4
Trailer hitch1D0without trailer towing
airbag4UEdriver and front passanger airbags
Automatic transmission indicator light9FAWithout automatic transmission
indicator light
Aktivkohlebehälter / Ottopartikelfilter1E1Activated carbon canister
Storage compartment7N1Overhead storage compartment
Exterior mirror setting6XNExterior mirrors, power-adjustable/
separately heated
Left exterior mirror5SJLeft exterior mirror, convex
Right exterior mirror5RVRight exterior mirror, aspherical
Drive type1X0Front-wheel drive
Outside temperature display9Y1Outside temperature display
Equipment levelsA8Dluxury version
Brake type in rear1KSDisc brakes in rear (Geomet D)
batteriesJ1LBattery 280 A (60 Ah)
Brake type, front1ZMDisc brakes in front (Geomet D)
Components with special surface6FEBody-colored exterior mirror housings
and tailgate handle
Component part sets with
country-specific design requirementsB0NComponent parts set, complying with
vehicle type for Great Britain, various
parts
floor covering3MFDilours floor covering with scuff guard
vehicle tools and jack1S1vehicle tools and jack
brake pressure regulator1H0without brake pressure regulator
Brake systems1ATelectronic satbility programme -ESP-
Owner's manuals0VAWithout owner's manual
brake wear indicator9U1brake wear indicator
Heated washer nozzles9T0Without heated washer nozzles
CD changer/CD player7A0Without CD changer/CD player
General operating permit, alterationsC12Operating permit, alteration
Cd enhancing underbody panel2D1Complete cd enhancing underbody panel
Roof insert/convertible top3FAroof without cut out
Suspension system in rearUB1Rear shock absorption for sports version
Suspension system in frontG16Shock absorption in front
Insert for the filling up of unleaded
fuel/fuel type2G7Filler neck module 1 with insert
Installation differentiation for components0EJInstallation differentiation for
transmission MQ 250
-- vehicle components --
Theft protection system7AHElectronic immobilizer, with anti-theft
alarm system, interior monitoring and
backup horn
Interference suppression8E2Local interference suppression for FM/AM
radio reception
Park distance control7X0Without park distance control
Manufacturing sequence differentiation0FAStandard manufacturing sequence
Vehicle typeAZ0Vehicle with production equipment
window regulator4R4Power windows with comfort operation and
circuit breaker
fire extinguisher6A0without fire extinguisher
Headlight activation8K0Without special driving light switching
Fresh air intake for passenger
compartment (with particulate filter)2V5Fresh air intake with activated charcoal filter
Antifreeze1C2Antifreeze up to -35 degree celsius
tolerance up to -40 degree C
Vehicle specificationsF0ANo special purpose vehicle, standard
equipment
throttle control0L2accelerator pedal with electronic modul
Alternators8GDAlternator 90 A
Transmission types/gearshift mechanisms0G4Cable gearshift
Transmission shafts1WBTransmission shafts 100 mm in diameter
Weight category rear axle0YZWithout determination of weight
category for rear axle
Weight category front axleL19Suspension range 19
installation control only, no
requirement forecast
Base engineT534-cyl. petrol engine 1.6 l assembly 06A.S (ALU)
Luggage netting/pocket on backrest(s)4U5Luggage pockets on backrest
Luggage compartment cover3U1Folding trunk cover
cruise control system8T0Without cruise control system (CCS)
Exterior noise suppression measures2B7additional noise dampener
Transmission specificationsG0C5-speed manual transmission
Cruise control system and speed limiter6Y0without speed warning system
Brackets3P1Bracket for first aid kit and warning
triangle
Center high-mounted stop light8R1Center high-mounted stop lamp
handle for hand brake lever6PAHand brake lever handle in plastic
Rear spoiler5J0Without rear spoiler
Rear window wiper and washer system8M0Without rear window wiper and washer
system
Grab handles at roof frame5N7Folding grab handle front
Rear axle0N5Standard rear axle
Rear seats3NBRear seat bench/backrest, completely
folding
Heating and air-conditioning system9ABManually controlled air conditioning
system
Headlamps8BFHalogen headlamp for driving on the left
Instrument clustersU0HInstrument cluster with tachometer, mph
speedometer and trip odometer
Breakaway interior rearview mirror4L2Breakaway interior rearview mirror,
dimming
Sticker (customized or special edition)0KAWithout decals and emblems
Body styleK8FRoundback
Luggage compartment floor covering6SCLuggage compartment floor covering in
needle-punched nonwoven
Electronic map cooling systemQS0Without electronic map cooling system
headrest for seat, rear3Q1headrest for seat, rear
Head restraints3J7Tilt- and height-adjustable head
restraints for front seats
Fuel tank treatment2LCFuel tank with special material
treatment (coextrusion)
Fuel quantity for initial filling1Z2Increase in initial standard fuel
filling
Fuel systems0F2Fuel system for SI engine
Body measures5C0Without special body measures
Catalytic converter control8KAwithout catalyst control
Rear license plate bracket6P1Rear license plate carrier (ECE)
Front license plate bracket6W1Front license plate carrier (large)
Paint preservative/transit coating5K5Transportation protective film
(instead of paint preservation)
Country-specific product programX2BNational sales program Great Britain
Steering system arrangementL0RRight-hand drive
Reading lamp8S3Additional reading lights rear
steering1N1Power steering
Backrest release3H9Backrest release for front seats with
Easy Entry feature
Lumbar support7P0Without lumbar support
in seat backrests
steering wheels1MFComfort steering wheel for airbag system
Speaker installation8RL6 speakers (passive)
Steering column systems2C5Steering column, adjusted axially and vertically
Headlight range control8Q1Headlight range control
Center armrest6E3Front center armrest
Multi-function display/trip computer9Q0Without multi-function display/
trip computer
Engine cooling8Z5not hot country
Engine specificationsMW64-cylinder SI engine 1.6 l/75 kW
with MPI
base engine is T0B/T53/TC2/TL2
Left vanity mirror4SMLeft vanity mirror illuminated
with cover and pocket
Right vanity mirror4TMVanity mirror, right, illuminated
with cover and pocket
Navigation device7Q0without navigation system
rear fog lamp8TDRear fog light for driving on the left
Front fog lamp/additional headlamp8WAWithout fog lights
Rear of platform module base4P0Rear floor panel module, type 1
Platform group class7PDPlatform group class 4
Hubcaps1NUFull wheel covers
WheelsC9DSteel wheels 6.5J x 16
Radios8ADRadio "gamma"
Smoker's/non-smoker's package9JBSmoker's package, ashtrays in front and
rear
tireH6U205/55 R16 91W tyres
Tire suppliersV0ATires without specification of tire
brand
Spare wheel/breakdown kit1G2Spare wheel with full tyre, steel
PE2comfort package
PH1air conditioning system
PJ7steel wheels 6 1/2J X 16
PS6comfort seats package including "Easy
Entry"
PT2technical equipment package for GB
RCAradio "gamma" in New Beetle design
Side airbag4X1Side airbag in front
Gearshift knob/handle6Q1Gearshift knob/handle in plastic
Special labels/plates0SCLabels in English
Tail lamp assemblies8SARear combination lamp, standard design
Locking mechanism for boot lid/cover
rear4E8Tailgate/trunk lid release
from inside (electrically)
Materials of low flammability4Q1Materials of low flammability
Seat belt check9P0without press button buckle with warning contact
Outer rear seat belts3ZM3-point seat belts, outer rear
Center rear seat belts3C0Without seat belts in center, rear
Gearshift boot/cover6R1Gearshift boot in leatherette
seat coversN0WFabric seat covers
New Beetle packaging
Seat adjustment3L3Manual height adjustment for front seats
seat heater4A0without seat heater
Side lights8F2side-mounted turn signals
Key for locking system8QEKey for locking system with remote control
Start-stop system/regenerative braking7L0Without inertia benefit system/
deceleration fuel cut-off/idle stop
valve
Side and rear windows4KCSide and rear windows in heat-insulating
glass
power outlet7B0without socket
Bumper2JGbumper in color of vehicle
Rear stabilizer0BCRear stabilizer
Front stabilizer bar0AEFront stabilizer bar
Heavy-duty/sports version2UAStandard design
Headlamp washer system8X0Without headlamp washer system
Windshield wiper intermittent control/
light/rain sensor8N4Windshield wiper intermittent control
with potentiometer (four speeds)
Nameplate set0NAWithout nameplate set
(without model designation)
Fuel filler cap/door, locking option2W0filler cap for fuel tank
Mass damper for steering wheels1Q0steering wheel without balance weight
Door and lid locking system4K3Central locking w/ radio remote control,
interior controls and SAFELOCK
Type approval countries/countries with
special requirementsB09Type approval country GB/Northern
Ireland
Carrier frequency for remote control5D1Carrier frequency 433.92 to 434.42 Mhz
Door and side trim panels4AFDoor and side trim panel in foam film
and woven fabric
doors0A12 doors
Front underbody guard1SAWithout additional front underbody guard
Identification plates1EXSpecial identification plate for EU
Fender house linerVU0Without fender house liner
Two-way radio installation preparation9D0without prepared for two way radio system
Front seatsQ1AStandard seats in front
Telephone / telematics9W0Without car phone preparation/
installation
Additional warning lights9TBAdditional warning lights (door area)
LongLife Service RegimeQG1LongLife Service Regime
Heat accumulator system/auxiliary heater7E0W/o heat accumulator/auxiliary heating
Windshield Glass4GFWindshield in heat-insulating glass
Washer fluid level indicator8W0without washer water level indicator
Additional tires (snow tires)2WAwithout spare tyre
floor mats0TAwithout floor mats
Additional child seat anchors3B0Without additional child seat anchors
Zündanlaß/Schloß-Sperrsystem/
Elektrische Lenksäulenverriegelung0RAWithout ignition/safety ignition lock
 
   #11  
LucaDN

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Jack@European_Parts said:
What is condition of J59 X contact relay?
Click to expand...

I did not check the relays, I can do that tomorrow. My plan was to check the ECM relay in the engine bay only, but I'll follow your advice and check J59 as well.



Jack@European_Parts said:
are you missing terminals 30 and 15 for B+ and B+ Switched?
Click to expand...
Forgive me, I am no expert, what connector are you referring to?


Thanks
 
   #12  
Jack@European_Parts

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Another thing, Jack, I don't know why you posted that option list, but I am not sure it is correct. At least Engine code and Transmission code are different. If it can be useful, this is my sticker:
Click to expand...

It is always relevant but AYD was in the earlier cars according to what I recall & MPI Simos controllers and the BFS was in slightly later production dates.

Looks like a bastard that doesn't line up with the star maps in this galaxy.

Forgive me, I am no expert, what connector are you referring to?
Click to expand...

DIN Specs JPPSG please

https://forums.ross-tech.com/showth...essional-Problem-Solver-Guide-quot-JPPSG-quot


 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Do you have power at any terminals at all at ECU if not the J363 is suspect too and makes me more concerned about J59 terminal X contact and D51 in wiring harness that complete the connection between J59 and the J363

Make sure that EGR is not browning as a black hole taking out the connection since shares a stargate on track 25 to off world 57 track at EGR N18...........could be in time dilation.


 
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LucaDN

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I just hit a bug in Chrome for Android (at least in my tablet) when editing messages. If I edit a message, whatever area in the editing window I click after that just deletes the post. When it happened the first time I thought it had been my mistake, the second time I kept an eye on it and now I am sure.

Anyway, I need to re-post two previous messages.
One with my car's sticker:
VehicleDataStickerSmall.jpg


And then this one:

You have made all clear now, thanks!
I know the meaning of '30 and 15 for B+ and B+ Switched' but I could not get what you meant by 'missing the terminals'. I see your point now, will check first thing tomorrow, the dash cover is still on the back seats, no problem.
J363 agreed, as I said I wanted to check it today but it was stuck (or has a release bracket) so I will look into it tomorrow. I did not want to force it.
 
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LucaDN

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I should be down to this:


WD27.3.png


I can feel the ECM relay click when i turn the ignition ON.
Yesterday I checked fuse 10, it was not blown and 12V were there.
The relay clicks when I turn the ignition ON (tested this morning), but I have no voltage on the ECM harness (T121/3), so either the relay is faulty or the wire that goes from the relay to the ECU is broken somewhere.
As the relay is clicking I think it's safe to assume there are no problems from the fuse to the relay coil, am I right?

I will investigate it as soon as I find the time.
Am I doing something wrong in your opinion? Thanks
 
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Uwe

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LucaDN said:
As the relay is clicking I think it's safe to assume there are no problems from the fuse to the relay coil, am I right?
Click to expand...
Strikes me as a reasonable supposition.

How about jumpering across the output pins of the relay on track 26 of that diagram just to see if you can then communicate with the ECU?

-Uwe-
 
   #18  
LucaDN

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Uwe said:
How about jumpering across the output pins of the relay on track 26 of that diagram just to see if you can then communicate with the ECU?
Click to expand...

Much better than T-Slicing the wire to T121/3 as I was thinking at first :thumbs:
 
   #19  
Jack@European_Parts

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Well if relay goes "click" than 15 is hot and ECU is sensing a wake on T121/23 for C .........but what about terminal 30 for X at relay plate 2/30 on J363?

You indeed could jump Uwe if terminal 30 is hot with terminal 87 at relay or if dead with 86............OP: Don't forget about diode in relay for 86A......since relay clicks it implies ECU has control of relay.
 
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LucaDN, as a side note, 12 volts does not sometimes mean anything, meaning when you have it make sure it can light up at least a tail light bulb, bet even Jack has had his ASS handed to him on that, and if not there is still time..

LARIMORE
 
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