2005 mk4 jetta tdi 5-spd 09A Transmission issue

Locoelectrician · Feb 20, 2015

I have SSP 851103 and will be reading it tonight (if thats good enough, if not, I'll buy the other one). Beyond the concept and theory, I know very little about automatic transmissions so this is quite a frustrating experience for me. Thank you for the info.

Jack@European_Parts · Feb 20, 2015

It is a good start.............. not a substitute to the actual repair manual.

This component is often over looked I sited in prior post by MANY Trans shops............you can be sure it is cost as to why the phrase comes to mind.

What what what.........is costs what?#@#!

" Oh than Looks good from my house! Hey Jesus he said Reinstall it "

see see.......... not ja ja

??????? Have you reset basic settings in VCDS for this unit yet?

Reverse Gear Clutch K2 and 3rd through 5th Gear Clutch K3
Special feature: One component comprises two clutches.
Both clutches will now be disassembled for cleaning.

No repairs can be made.

If one of the two clutches is faulty, both must always be replaced. Of course, then neither of the clutches needs to be disassembled and washed.
To present the work on this component clearly, the material is divided into the following three chapters:

Some technical facts......

None In stock in the USA in any VW depot! K2/K3 Pack as described in repair manual as required assembly.
Which I am sure you need, as do you need the others due to contaminates domino effect.

09B-323-921B ( $754.95 )
09B-398-204B ( $ 433.50 )

Hmmmmmmmm

Then the clutches needed.
These you can buy still like 1 or two left in entire depot system.

09A-409-061 ( $ 485.13 )
09A-325-429 ( $ 107.10 )

We didn't even check price on K1, K4, B2, B1, B3 or VB or noids, fluid or a TQ seals and gaskets.

Facts are the facts and why it can't be done.

Complete Trans with loaded TQ converter from Jokeswagen.....

Can be found online for under $3.5K with fluid filled + core.

Locoelectrician · Feb 20, 2015

I see no place in VCDS where anything can be reset in this transmission. Adaptations cannot even be accessed. If I'm wrong, please let me know where to look. If this is as bad as you state, a manual swap might be a smarter choice but I would like to rule everything else out first. I will try to find where to hook gauges to read pressures off of K3 is possible, as well as figure out what pressures i should expect.

roth · Feb 20, 2015

Locoelectrician said:
Are you saying you do not see where the RPM shot to redline when shifting to 4th? I'll admit, I couldnt follow the log very well but the 3 or 4 times it did it, the rpm shoots from 2500 to 4000, just like the car was thrown into neutral. I agree with jack as well about the "rebuild".

I did and it is not surprising since we already know it slips in 4th.

Locoelectrician · Feb 20, 2015

max temp according to SSP is 150C. If the sensor fails, the TCM operates at an assumed 110C.

Jack@European_Parts said:
My question to you is what is the temp range if published in captions in VCDS or the repair manual?
RTFB

www.erwin.vw.com

Jack@European_Parts · Feb 20, 2015

max temp according to SSP is 150C. If the sensor fails, the TCM operates at an assumed 110C.

That's not the case here......... because if it was bad due to a static error, we would see it in VCDS and this one was sporadic, hence the slip.

You are focusing in on the wrong paths and ignoring what I am telling you to investigate.

Ever consider with the cold temps out and the degree that you are duplicating the conditions.......... maybe you cant get passed that temp?

Wanna prove it through facts your hypothesis for true or false ?
Select a lower gear and drive in higher RPM on hill and watch temp.

If you are prepared to do a swap to a stick and all that work why not give the thickening agent a try?
It's worth a shot if you are at that cross road mentally.......costs pennies.

If you read the repair manual............. 0x02-04-000 3 seconds hold gas pedal..........same as its been since 1989 Digimats.....

ADAPTIONS!

Locoelectrician · Feb 20, 2015

Jack@European_Parts said:
That's not the case here......... because if it was bad due to a static error, we would see it in VCDS and this one was sporadic, hence the slip.

You are focusing in on the wrong paths and ignoring what I am telling you to investigate.

Ever consider with the cold temps out and the degree that you are duplicating the conditions.......... maybe you cant get passed that temp?

I'm not focusing on this as the problem, but in my experience with electronics and temperature sensors, something does not climb to exactly 100.0C and never again move. Even a computer sitting idle will vary a few tenths of a degree over time. We drove over a half hour with it sitting at 100.0

Wanna prove it through facts your hypothesis for true or false ?
Select a lower gear and drive in higher RPM on hill and watch temp.

Did this, 100.0, never changed

If you are prepared to do a swap to a stick and all that work why not give the thickening agent a try?
It's worth a shot if you are at that cross road mentally.......costs pennies.

Will most likely try this, a lot has happened with this situation in 48 hours which has me in a much different place than where I started.

If you read the repair manual.............

ADAPTIONS!

Good to know, thank you. I searched and even asked on here in another thread about this and was informed it could not be done with the 09A

Replied within the message.

Jack@European_Parts · Feb 20, 2015

I believe Peter mentioned Basics in his first reply to you.

It is you who didn't get a repair manual to know what they are....... due to your circumventing the process, which goes with fixing any vehicle manufacturer.

Like I said do a force temp test......prove the hypothesis.

Locoelectrician · Feb 20, 2015

Did the force temp test, and as I said, it never moved above 100.0, but I will do it again. I'm at work now and only have a few hours each evening to look at it. The first night was spent gathering information and trying to figure out what to test, the second night was spent getting it to fail and trying to log it. I will get the manual and read it, but with a finite amount of time to work with, it has not happened yet, which seems to bother you quite a bit. I have the whole day tomorrow to look at it and at that time, plan to look over the wiring as suggested. Also plan to try to reset the adaptations but seeing as how the picture you posted looks nothing like what i've seen in vcds, I guess i'll have to find another manual to figure that part out as well. If it's not to much to ask, could you tell me what thickening agent you recommend? I'm not sure where constantly belittling me helps, but if thats your method, so be it.

roth · Feb 20, 2015

Locoelectrician said:
I'm not doubting failed clutches or whatever but bitching at me to read the fucking book, that I dont even have, is not helping me at all, which is the reason i came to this forum..... to ask for help.

You see, and now we have 2 things to deal with, your trans and your attitude.

My friend, I think you should feel humble, grateful and maybe then you will feel blessed.

Humble, because you need something and can offer nothing in return.

Grateful, because there are people out there that for whatever reason enjoy figuring this stuff out.

Blessed, you might fell if you actually manage to fix your problem.

...and don't even start about VCDS support being included, etc. Support is for using the tool not for diagnosing transmissions.

Regards, Andy :mad:

Jack@European_Parts · Feb 20, 2015

I apologize if it seems like I am belittling you. This is not my intent!

It is just I would like to see if you could get a quick cheap fix...without dumping pointless money in the garbage can.
That's is why I love this tool and this forum.

The forum is a funny place.....and sometimes yeah I can be known to be a wiseass.
Even more so when I feel someone is not listening.
I can easily be taken out of context by my poor writing skills, and the fact I am eager here to help,...... and your pissed off because of the actual problem etc.

The point I am trying to make and will continue, is that the repair manual is not to be substituted for Google searches and shared documents or comments in a forum.
It might be for some that understand certain things and have a grasp......and sometimes the answers are quick and shear repetition.

The information I posted is in the factory repair manual for your specific car.......... not on the VCDS manual.

It's in section :: Automatic Transmission ( On Board Diagnostic ) sub group ( Diagnosis and testing ) Subject ( Basic Settings Initiating )

Yesterday I had to do a starter in a 03 Golf 1.8T 09A auto.

Hence I disconnected the battery and then did my job....... reconnected and did basics for TV in 0x01-04-060/063 and reset the ADP in 0x02........ readiness in the bay x2 DCY and then a road test loop. Every car I do this no just sending it out the door.

Automatics are a soar subject for me.
History already indicates that there are people taking huge amounts of money from people for noids and clutch plates, with a half ass inspection/re-USE......... then charging more money then the dam unit cost from the OEM. Only to what blow up in short time frame once the new discs wear a little lowering the PSI and starting the contamination process all over again?

I realize your time is limited.....you must realize that I care or I wouldn't write this or answer the questions I do.

Thickening agent = Motor oil Mobile1 0w40 European blend with ATF up to 50/50.

Some cars I ran 100% 0w20 and 0w30............

Jack@European_Parts · Feb 20, 2015

I have also had good luck with this straight but the car had to warm-up on cold days.
No reason you couldn't cut it with this and ATF for testing the condition.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/certified-hydraulic-oil-aw32-5-gal-pail/prod1120229.ip?navAction=

Locoelectrician · Feb 20, 2015

Jack@European_Parts said:
I apologize if it seems like I am belittling you. This is not my intent!
It is just I would like to see if you could get a quick cheap fix...without dumping pointless money in the garbage can.
That's is why I love this tool and this forum.

The forum is a funny place.....and sometimes yeah I can be known to be a wiseass.
Even more so when I feel someone is not listening.
I can easily be taken out of context by my poor writing skills, and the fact I am egger here to help,...... and your pissed off because of the actual problem etc.

The point I am trying to make and will continue, is that the repair manual is not to be substituted for Google searches and shared documents or comments in a forum.
It might be for some that understand certain things and have a grasp......and sometimes the answers are quick and shear repetition.

The information I posted is in the factory repair manual for your specific car.......... not on the VCDS manual.

It's in section :: Automatic Transmission ( On Board Diagnostic ) sub group ( Diagnosis and testing ) Subject ( Basic Settings Initiating )

Yesterday I had to do a starter in a 03 Golf 1.8T 09A auto.

Hence I disconnected the battery and then did my job....... reconnected and did basics for TV in 0x01-04-060/063 and reset the ADP in 0x02........ readiness in the bay x2 DCY and then a road test loop. Every car I do this no just sending it out the door.

Automatics are a soar subject for me.
History already indicates that there are people taking huge amounts of money from people for noids and clutch plates, with a half ass inspection/re-USE......... then charging more money then the dam unit cost from the OEM. Only to what blow up in short time frame once the new discs wear a little lowering the PSI and starting the contamination process all over again?

I realize your time is limited.....you must realize that I care or I wouldn't write this or answer the questions I do.

Thickening agent = Motor oil Mobile1 0w40 European blend with ATF up to 50/50.

Some cars I ran 100% 0w20 and 0w30............

Thank you, and as in my reply to Andy, TONE is nearly impossible to detect in written words. Don't think for a second I am not listening, and absorbing all I can, and appreciating your time, because I am. Just getting the car to the point it would fail regularly enough to even diagnose has been a monumental task and the last 48 hours have been insane, but hey, if you ever find yourself with a locomotive you cant figure out, give me a call. My thoughts are to reset adaptations, verify wiring at trans as well as tcm, and either add a varnish remover to the trans to possibly free up a sticking solenoid, or thicken the fluid to increase PSI. My son is getting the manual now and if I can, perhaps i can measure pressure of K3 if I have the tooling to do so.

Locoelectrician · Feb 20, 2015

roth said:
You see, and now we have 2 things to deal with, your trans and your attitude.

My friend, I think you should feel humble, grateful and maybe then you will feel blessed.

Humble, because you need something and can offer nothing in return.

Grateful, because there are people out there that for whatever reason enjoy figuring this stuff out.

Blessed, you might fell if you actually manage to fix your problem.

...and don't even start about VCDS support being included, etc. Support is for using the tool not for diagnosing transmissions.

Regards, Andy

There is no attitude from me, and ive stated thanks over and over for the help. I've asked a lot of questions and received a lot of answers that i am grateful for. It's been 2 days since I dove into this problem head first so for sure there is frustration. While at work I only have the internet and am using that time to gain information. I'll admit, i assumed RTFM to mean "read the f-----g manual" instead of read the factory manual. My mistake and my apologies. "TONE" is very difficult to detect in writing, so please take that into consideration. I know there is no magic answer and this follows my line of work quite closely, but I've read everything from clean a solenoid to replace the entire transmission (which is expected, I get that). I'm trying to find the most methodical way to properly diagnose this with a lot of conflicting information (not just from here). Also, never once have i said a word about VCDS support, we chose to post the problem on this forum in the hopes of avoiding all the drama you see on most other forums.

Jack@European_Parts · Feb 20, 2015

To do that..........The two most important documents in the repair manual are toward the end of the tree as ( TEST TABLE )

One for block values in scanner............a great read you need.
One for electrical tests for all connections to/from the TCU and guts of trans.

2 stroke diesel/electric choo choos ?

Locoelectrician · Feb 20, 2015

Yes, 2 stroke EMD locos. I design, rewire, diagnose, and sometimes scream at their electrical systems. They haven't got much attention from me though in the past 2 days though so I'm a little behind.

roth · Feb 20, 2015

Locoelectrician said:
There is no attitude from me, and ive stated thanks over and over for the help. I've asked a lot of questions and received a lot of answers that i am grateful for. It's been 2 days since I dove into this problem head first so for sure there is frustration. While at work I only have the internet and am using that time to gain information. I'll admit, i assumed RTFM to mean "read the f-----g manual" instead of read the factory manual. My mistake and my apologies. "TONE" is very difficult to detect in writing, so please take that into consideration. I know there is no magic answer and this follows my line of work quite closely, but I've read everything from clean a solenoid to replace the entire transmission (which is expected, I get that). I'm trying to find the most methodical way to properly diagnose this with a lot of conflicting information (not just from here). Also, never once have i said a word about VCDS support, we chose to post the problem on this forum in the hopes of avoiding all the drama you see on most other forums.

OK, don't sweat it.

You can try Jack's suggestion just if only to get it out of the system. There is also this stuff here:

http://lucasoil.com/products/transmission-products/lucas-transmission-fix

Some swear by it. I have no opinion on it.

Let us know how it goes.

BR, Andy

Jack@European_Parts · Feb 20, 2015

You will also note that the additive is permitted to be mixed and topped off with regular engine oil and or ATF..............

Locoelectrician · Feb 20, 2015

Ok, so hear me out for a moment and then I'll move forward with whatever you guys feel is best. Had 4 back to back "slips" yesterday and the temp never moved at all, which tells me that instead of slipping, it didn't engage (so no excess friction), which would lead me to believe stuck solenoid or stuck something. You seem convinced it's k3 slipping though (which I can't argue against). Going to check harness, attempt to reset adaptations and....... Does my theory hold any water and I would be better first adding a varnish removing product? Or is it firmly believed k3 is actually slipping and my best bet is thickening the fluid?

Jack@European_Parts · Feb 20, 2015

Well based on the logs and real life experience...........History of your Information tells me the clutch unit was not changed and a half ass rebuild was done.
Establishing the PSI needed is the only cheap effective path and best advice before running a solvent through.

I asked this before without being answered.

Does this only happen hot and does it drive flawless cold?
Reason I ask is fluids are harder to switch via noid cold and thick........ verse hot and wet!.........makes sense right?

Compare and contrast WIN!

Old V8 engine has very slight rod knock cold/hot little more but raps more audible cold and used 5W 30 oil from the day it was new...... and is just loose run out......change to 10W 30 and the noise is gone.

Cushion for rods pushing...........

2005 mk4 jetta tdi 5-spd 09A Transmission issue

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