2.0T TSI Timing Chain Tensioner Question

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VolksRabbit

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I have a 2009 Audi TT with the CCTA 2.0T TSI. The car runs fine (32,000 miles on the odometer), but I've become paranoid about the infamous timing chain tensioner. I've read horror stories about it failing with zero warning, i.e. no MIL, driveability change, etc. If that's the case, then it seems I should have the tensioner replaced before driving another mile. But is that really the case? Or would I get some warning and at least have time to pull off the road and have the car towed?
 
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Uwe

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Are they really failing with mileage that low?

-Uwe-
 
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Placeborick

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I have mk3 tts with the gen3 ea888 in.
I developed death rattle around 55k on cold starts that got progressively worse.
Decided to change the whole chain, tensioner and cam sensors before the inevitable happened.

It's down to the way the chain can snap back when engine stops, it can leave the tensioner loose, so until you build up oil pressure in those first 1-2 seconds you risk skipping a tooth.

You'll hear a vibrating rattle as the chain slaps the plastic on cold start.
 
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VolksRabbit

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Are they really failing with mileage that low?

-Uwe-

From what I gather, it's affected cars with as little as 20k. Ridiculous.

I have mk3 tts with the gen3 ea888 in.
I developed death rattle around 55k on cold starts that got progressively worse.
Decided to change the whole chain, tensioner and cam sensors before the inevitable happened.

It's down to the way the chain can snap back when engine stops, it can leave the tensioner loose, so until you build up oil pressure in those first 1-2 seconds you risk skipping a tooth.

You'll hear a vibrating rattle as the chain slaps the plastic on cold start.

Thanks. I'm pretty observant for any odd sounds, so this helps. I don't have a problem with replacing the tensioner (and the chain and other related components), but it kills me to do it at 32,000 miles as preventive maintenance.
 
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Placeborick

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I wouldn't stress over it. If it goes it will be on startup
 
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HMC

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I wouldn't stress over it. If it goes it will be on startup

That could still do a lot of damage, you only need one revolution to smash things.
Regards HMC
 
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Placeborick

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I meant more along the lines of it's not going to lunch itself half way up the motorway like a timing belt can.
They're most vunerable in that first few seconds.
No point worrying about the What Ifs, there are loads of ways a second hand car could potentially fail.
 
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HMC

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Most cambelts fail at idle, that is when they are under most stress from the changing load on them. If I had a pound for every time someone has said "there won't be any damage as it was only ticking over" I could have some of the fun my customers seem to have!:)
Regards HMC
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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It would be a reckless choice to ignore a ticking time bomb of clock you can't read & being a widespread known issue wouldn't it?

:rolleyes:

That's like walking through a mine field without a map!
 
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DrPeter

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I have a 2009 Audi TT with the CCTA 2.0T TSI. The car runs fine (32,000 miles on the odometer), but I've become paranoid about the infamous timing chain tensioner. I've read horror stories about it failing with zero warning, i.e. no MIL, driveability change, etc. If that's the case, then it seems I should have the tensioner replaced before driving another mile. But is that really the case? Or would I get some warning and at least have time to pull off the road and have the car towed?

Hi there, I bought a 2009 Passat with the CCTS engine from the auction, vehicle was in perfect condition, except the writing on the windshield, "ENGINE LOCKED". I basically knew it would need an engine or a lot of work. When I picked up the vehicle, I checked the engine, it was locked up.. however there was some play, but it would not turn more than 20-degrees or so.

Here are the fault codes from the vehicle as I received it:

Code:
Address 01: Engine (CCT)       Labels: 06J-906-026-CCT.clb
   Part No SW: 06J 906 026 AG    HW: 06J 906 026 AF
   Component: MED17.5 TFSI 2,0    3319
   Revision: AAH03---    Serial number: VWZCZ000000000
   Coding: 0404010A19070160
   Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
   VCID: 6FE792F17EE8AE4710-803A

12 Faults Found:
000833 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40)
               P0341 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 160994 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2009.10.22
                    Time: 15:06:27

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1239 /min
                    Load: 14.5 %
                    Speed: 38.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 96.0°C
                    Temperature: 45.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.589 V

000022 - Bank 1: CMP Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
               P0016 - 000 - Incorrect Correlation - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 161163 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2009.10.25
                    Time: 20:09:05

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1191 /min
                    Load: 37.2 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 69.0°C
                    Temperature: 50.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.589 V

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
               P0300 - 000 -  - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 161163 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2009.10.25
                    Time: 20:09:51

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 906 /min
                    Load: 40.8 %
                    Speed: 1.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 72.0°C
                    Temperature: 51.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000769 - Cylinder 1
               P0301 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 161163 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2009.10.25
                    Time: 20:09:51

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 906 /min
                    Load: 40.8 %
                    Speed: 1.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 72.0°C
                    Temperature: 51.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000771 - Cylinder 3
               P0303 - 000 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 161163 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2009.10.25
                    Time: 20:09:51

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 906 /min
                    Load: 40.8 %
                    Speed: 1.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 72.0°C
                    Temperature: 51.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000772 - Cylinder 4
               P0304 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 161163 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2009.10.25
                    Time: 20:09:51

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 906 /min
                    Load: 40.8 %
                    Speed: 1.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 72.0°C
                    Temperature: 51.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

000770 - Cylinder 2
               P0302 - 000 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 161163 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2009.10.25
                    Time: 20:09:51

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 906 /min
                    Load: 40.8 %
                    Speed: 1.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 72.0°C
                    Temperature: 51.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.716 V

001286 - Idle Control System
               P0506 - 000 - RPM Lower than Expected - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 161165 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2009.10.25
                    Time: 20:13:59

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 831 /min
                    Load: 34.1 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 95.0°C
                    Temperature: 51.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.462 V

001674 - ECM Power Relay Load Circuit
               P068A - 000 - Opens Too Early
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2047.15.31
                    Time: 31:63:63

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 31.0°C
                    Temperature: 37.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.049 V

053271 - Please Check Fault Codes in Control Module for ABS Brakes
               U1017 - 000 -
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 161191 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2009.11.18
                    Time: 10:30:34

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 255.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 23.0°C
                    Temperature: 30.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 9.398 V

050197 - Implausible Data Received from ABS Control Module
               U0415 - 000 -  - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 161191 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2009.11.18
                    Time: 10:30:34

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 255.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 23.0°C
                    Temperature: 30.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 9.398 V

001378 - System Voltage
               P0562 - 000 - Too Low
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 161191 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 33.0°C
                    Temperature: 34.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 9.017 V

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



If you notice at the bottom of the ECM's fault code list, the Readiness, is all [0000 0000] - meaning no one cleared the codes after the engine has failed. So what you see is what the customer would have seen just before catastrophic engine failure.

With a bunch of misfires, I am sure that check engine light was on, saying check me out!!! but they must have just ignored it. Too bad because the vehicle had 100158 miles on it when I got it, just out of warranty.

If you find the P0016 fault code and/or the P0341 fault codes in a chain drive engine, neither one of these fault codes should not be over looked.

Also, if you suspect there could be a timing chain/adjuster issue, please see this Ross-Tech forum post:

Audi Volkswagen - 2.0L Chain Drive - P0016 Cam/Crank correlation check



Hope this helps,

drpeter


ps.. Yes, that is the broken intake valve that is on top of the piston from that CCTA engine. My son and I fixed the damage to the cylinder head and it has been fine since ;)
 
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