P1127 & P0172 - Too Rich codes

   #1  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Hello All,

Newbie here. I have a bout of throwing some rich codes. (posted below) and wanted to see if you experts could help out. FYI, I have the 3.0L engine with about 28,500 miles on it. The check engine came on about a 3 weeks ago. I looked at the codes, and checked on this site for possible issues. I started the diagnosis process on the air side. I cleaned the MAF and erased the codes. After about 200 of city/hwy miles, the CEL came back with same results. I wanted to add. I changed the fuel filter about 5000 miles ago. All plugs with correct gap and coil packs were changed about 2000 miles ago). Air filter was changed less than 5000 miles ago. I haven't checked anything yet on the fuel side, i.e. pressure, leaks, etc. (I also included a full scan result after the fuel trim report) Thanks everyone. I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Have a great day.

*I cleaned the MAF
*checked the power and ground connections from the car to the MAF plug, (all good)
*ran logs on the fuel trims, each time CEL came on, the negative values were just about the same, (posted one below)
*I ran 4 redline tests to check the numbers on the MAF. I didn't take logs, but in 2nd gear at about 6400rpm's, the MAF #'s were 98g/s and 102g/s the first day, 124g/s and 108g/s on second day. that is a far cry from the 80% of max HP (220 x .80=176).
*did a smoke test to check for vacuum leaks, found a hose just past the MAF, that had leak from original crimp clamp. Replaced that and after retest, no leaks anywhere.


Log:
Code:
Address 01: Engine (8E1 909 559 B)

13:53:34 Group 032: Lambda Control (Mixture Adaptation)
1.5 % Adaptation (Idle) Bank 1 Sensor 1
-17.2 % Adaptation (Partial) Bank 1 Sensor 1
0.8 % Adaptation (Idle) Bank 2 Sensor 1
-14.1 % Adaptation (Partial) Bank 2 Sensor 1

13:53:34 Group 033: Lambda Control
-2.3 % Lambda Control Bank 1 Sensor 1
1.540 V Sensor Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 1
-1.6 % Lambda Control Bank 2 Sensor 1
1.540 V Sensor Voltage Bank 2 Sensor 1

13:53:34 Group 002: General
800 /min Engine Speed (G28)
18.8 % Engine Load
2.87 ms Injection Timing
4.92 g/s Mass Air Flow (G70)


Code:
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06C-909-559-ASN.lbl
   Part No SW: 8E1 909 559 B    HW: 8E0 909 059 A
   Component: 3.0L V6/5V      G   0030  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: AUZ6Z0D0285717
   Coding: 0013754
   Shop #: WSC 00672 785 00200
   VCID: 3537DC2D09563F9F7D3-5160

2 Faults Found:
17535 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult) 
            P1127 - 002 - System too Rich - Intermittent
16556 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 
            P0172 - 002 - System Too Rich - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 927 156 AB
   Component: AG5 01V 3.0l5VT USA 0404  
   Coding: 0001002
   Shop #: WSC 00672 785 00200
   VCID: 6E8533412C804C477C9-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8E0-614-517.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 614 517 A
   Component: ABS/ESP allrad      4529  
   Coding: 04497
   Shop #: WSC 00672  
   VCID: 26150B61C1F04407C49-51A8

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 820 043 AD
   Component:   A4 Klimaautomat   1424  
   Coding: 00100
   Shop #: WSC 00672  
   VCID: 63935275F242F12FE37-513C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 8E0-907-279-8E2.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 907 279 F
   Component: int. Lastmodul  USA 0517  
   Coding: 01013
   Shop #: WSC 00672  
   VCID: 3537DC2D0C563F9F7D3-4AE0

1 Fault Found:
02104 - Light Detection Sensor (G399) 
            29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8H0-959-655-84.lbl
   Part No: 8H0 959 655 D
   Component: Airbag 8.4EC        0015  
   Coding: 0010105
   Shop #: WSC 00672 785 00200
   VCID: 3B23CA152F72E9EF8B7-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
   Part No: 8E0 953 549 N
   Component: Lenksáulenmodul     0611  
   Coding: 02041
   Shop #: WSC 00672  
   VCID: 3E25C3013960FCC7AC9-4AE0

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8E2.lbl
   Part No: 8H0 920 950 H
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB4 D22  
   Coding: 01401
   Shop #: WSC 09401  
   VCID: 313FE83DF83E13BF21B-5160
   WAUDT48H35K005891     AUZ6Z0D0285717

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 26: Auto Roof        Labels: 8H0-959-255.lbl
   Part No: 8H0 959 255 
   Component:  VSG  B6 CABRIO     6386  
   Shop #: WSC 00672 785 00200
   VCID: 73B3223547A261AF937-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr        Labels: None
   Part No: 8H0 959 760 
   Component: Sitzmemory EE H06   0010  
   Coding: 00002
   Shop #: WSC 00065  
   VCID: 74B12129479C66978AD-4B1E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 8E0-959-433-MAX.clb
   Part No: 8H0 959 433 E
   Component: Komfortgerát T7B    3320  
   Coding: 11788
   Shop #: WSC 00672  
   VCID: 3635DB2111503487749-4AE0

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8H1959801B
   Component: Tõrsteuer.FS BRM 3020  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8H1959802B
   Component: Tõrsteuer.BF BRM 3020  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8H0959801A
   Component: Tõrsteuer.HL BRM 0002  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8H0959802A
   Component: Tõrsteuer.HR BRM 0002  

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 4Z7-907-357.lbl
   Part No: 4Z7 907 357 
   Component: dynamische LWR       D09  
   Coding: 00070
   Shop #: WSC 00672  
   VCID: 045171E9173C5617BAD-4B1E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 63: Entry Assist,D        Labels: None
   Part No: 8H0 959 760 A
   Component: EasyEntry F M H13   0010  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00065  
   VCID: 3537DC2D0C663F9F7D3-4B1E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 73: Entry Assist, P        Labels: None
   Part No: 8H0 959 760 A
   Component: EasyEntry BF  H13   0010  
   Coding: 00005
   Shop #: WSC 00065  
   VCID: 3537DC2D0C663F9F7D3-4B1E

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 05:30, VBatt start/end: 12.5V/12.6V)-----------
 
Last edited by a moderator:
   #2  

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
17535 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult)
P1127 - 002 - System too Rich - Intermittent

Multiplicative trim issue mean its air or fuel issue after the MAF and since intermittent maybe an injector failing or sticking from age or being dirty.

Take out injectors and tank, replace or try a fuel additive & a shot glass of marvel mystery oil to lubricate the fuel system.
 
Last edited:
   #3  

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
48,925
Reaction score
33,652
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
*I ran 4 redline tests to check the numbers on the MAF. I didn't take logs, but in 2nd gear at about 6400rpm's, the MAF #'s were 98g/s and 102g/s the first day, 124g/s and 108g/s on second day. that is a far cry from the 80% of max HP (220 x .80=176).
Yes it is.

These values were with the pedal to the metal?

Since this is a naturally aspirated engine, are you somewhere close to sea level?

-Uwe-
 
   #4  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Multiplicative trim issue mean its air or fuel issue after the MAF and since intermittent maybe an injector failing or sticking from age or being dirty.

Take out and tank, replace or try a fuel additive & a hot glass of marvel mystery oil to lubricate the fuel system.


Ok thanks. Yes, the nice older lady that owned it didn't put many miles on it. I bought it 16 months ago with only 18,500 on it, which in itself can be an issue. I was planning on doing a fuel pressure test and using some sort of Seafoam or Mystery oil. Appreciate the advice.
 
   #5  

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Ok thanks. Yes, the nice older lady that owned it didn't put many miles on it. I bought it 16 months ago with only 18,500 on it, which in itself can be an issue. I was planning on doing a fuel pressure test and using some sort of Seafoam or Mystery oil. Appreciate the advice.


Also check MAF filter box & pre-screen from ram air for blockage FOD! & not permitting enough air!

It is apparent that this car has sit for a bit.
 
   #6  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Yes it is.

These values were with the pedal to the metal?

Since this is a naturally aspirated engine, are you somewhere close to sea level?

-Uwe-

Yes, I am I live 10 miles north of the white house in DC
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
   #7  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Also check MAF filter box & pre-screen from ram air for blockage FOD! & not permitting enough air!

It is apparent that this car has sit for a bit.

I should have mentioned that. The screen and box are all fine. Everything up to the throttle body was clean as well as the throttle body itself.
 
   #8  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Multiplicative trim issue mean its air or fuel issue after the MAF and since intermittent maybe an injector failing or sticking from age or being dirty.

Take out injectors and tank, replace or try a fuel additive & a shot glass of marvel mystery oil to lubricate the fuel system.

Ok, I put some techron Cleaner in it and a bit of MMO. ���� It unclogs or does the trick. I’ll report back. Appreciate it.
 
   #9  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Yes it is.

These values were with the pedal to the metal?

Since this is a naturally aspirated engine, are you somewhere close to sea level?

-Uwe-


Yes, pedal down to the floor in 2nd gear.
 
   #10  

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
48,925
Reaction score
33,652
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
Yes, pedal down to the floor in 2nd gear.
Well, your MAF readings should be higher.

But the "Too Rich" codes are the opposite of what we usually see when a MAF under-reports actual airflow.

Does this car feel like it has 220 hp?

-Uwe-
 
   #11  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Thanks for getting back to me Uwe. I thought about those readings, too. A bit opposite to what I thought. I would say yes. It does feel like it’s driving at that HP. I must admit, I may be a bit of a novice at that rating. I’ve either owned cars that had little 4 poppers with 98-180 HP to the opposite, 400 plus HP. Definitely faster than my last Hyundai junk, no offense to anyone, with 180HP with a lot more torque, too.
 
   #12  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Also, I just did put in fuel system cleaner and MMO like Jack suggested and filled the tank. Have to see how that turns out. I had used a can of BG44 when I first bought it. Figured it didn’t get driven much, so I’d throw a can in to help clean things out.

Should I be checking LTFT numbers for awhile or wait a bit? After fixing the vacuum leak, I watched them, and they were starting to go negative again. I have watched a bunch of tutorials on that. It makes sense, but I still have questions about it. Anyway, thanks.
 
   #13  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Hello, I wanted to ask another ? I was watching the videos here and others on Short and long term fuel trim. My Engine light hasn’t come back on as of yet. As I heard from the videos, the LTFT is a slow learner so to speak. It catches up with the rich, in my case, data from the STFT. For sake of discussion, if that unmetered air leak I found was the problem, once fixed, how long would one expect to wait until those LTFT came back to normal range? Just looking for some clarification. Thanks.
 
   #15  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
What air leak?

Good morning Jack,

I did a smoke test earlier and found smoke coming out of this hose after the MAF. I replaced the clamp and retested. No more smoke from there or anywhere. This link should work. Thanks

9
 
   #17  

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Well that is indeed an air leak post MAF!
 
Last edited:
   #18  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Well that is indeed an air leak post MAF!

Yes Sir,

I just finished taking the N80 purge valve out. It didn't allow air through it. It didn't smell like gas. The resistance was within spec per Bentley book, so I'm going with that is ok. I'm going to change out the engine coolant sensor since it is older and the part is cheap. I guess my last question still is in my mind. With all else being equal, when do you think I should start seeing those long term #'s come back in normal range. Or is there something else I should try and look for in your opinion. Thanks again for taking the time to help with this and others. Appreciate it. Take care,
 
   #20  

dodaman

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
15
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=332400
Trims change fast and id say within 10 minutes easy.

Ok, I reset them after the hose clamp fix. they zero'd out but long terms went negative again?? No codes yet, though???
 
Back
Top