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Thread: Skoda Octavia DSG gearbox rpoblems

  1. #11
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    RTFB and search the term and you will in fact find it.
    Hey Jack, even I don't know what "KS" means in this context.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    RTFB and search the term and you will in fact find it.
    Jack, I've been using forums for well over twenty years, and I have to say that this has so far been the most unhelpful forum I have ever used! So far all you have done is offered very cryptic advice that even other forum members don't know what you mean!

    If you care to search my username you will see that I'm well known on quite a few forums for various things, and I'm very helpful where I can be, I find you're attitude insulting and very unhelpful!

    Unfortunately I do not have many hours to digest and and read an entire manual. As for searching for KS, do you even realise how many words contain KS! Try worKShop, forKS, VolKSwagon just for starters!

    I have spoken to the gearbox engineer who we've been working with, he has told me the Mechatronic unit is a self contained unit containing the clutch servo's and is pre-filled with oil. If I'm wrong about this then please explain why, any idiot can say somebody is wrong without actually explaining why!

    I've been a truck (heavy goods vehicles) mechanic for 31 years, I've managed this workshop for 18 years, we have very little to do with cars, the gearbox specialist's main area is old fashioned auto's with torque converters, now a thing of the past so he's trying to learn the modern equivalents, attending courses and investing money, but it all takes time and experience to learn. Unfortunately their are no local DSG specialists - if there was the car would be there, there is the main dealer of course, but we all know how quickly that adds up.

    I'll also add the that the gearbox specialist's wife is currently in hospital (not local) and he's also just moved premises, so is struggling for time as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Hey Jack, even I don't know what "KS" means in this context.

    -Uwe-
    Thank you for you're feedback on this, Jack's certainly making things far harder, as if they were not hard enough.
    Last edited by Ronski; 03-29-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  4. #13
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    Just add to the above I've just flicked through quite a lot of the manual (nothing regarding KS jumps out at me), and it clearly states the oil should not be drained from the mechatronic unit, and new units are supplied filled with oil. It's also quite clear from the pictures that ALL the servo's for the clutches and the selector forks are built into the the mechatronic unit.

    I should hopefully have the old machatronic back soon, so will be able to look at it myself.

  5. #14
    Ross-Tech Employee Dana's Avatar
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    I'm certainly not an expert in this area but we do have this page to offer:
    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...rbox_(DSG/0AM)

    I agree with interpretation of that error:
    255 = Basic Settings was canceled because
    44 = Neutral position not possible

    Most of the e-mail inquires we receive pertaining to fault codes and the inability to finish Basic Settings are related to the mechanical removal/installation position of the Mechatronic unit so we have a wall of Special Notes on that Wiki page.

    I did not dig into the repair manual for this particular vehicle... but based on memory I think the shifter must be in N and Basic Settings 062 would be used before removing the Mechatronic unit. I think they even comment/describe reaching into the trans and making sure all of the shift forks are still in a neutral position before installing the replacement Mechatronic.

    If that doesn't help steer you in the correct direction please bump this back up.

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  7. #15
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Jack, I've been using forums for well over twenty years, and I have to say that this has so far been the most unhelpful forum I have ever used! So far all you have done is offered very cryptic advice that even other forum members don't know what you mean!

    If you care to search my username you will see that I'm well known on quite a few forums for various things, and I'm very helpful where I can be, I find you're attitude insulting and very unhelpful!

    Unfortunately I do not have many hours to digest and and read an entire manual. As for searching for KS, do you even realise how many words contain KS! Try worKShop, forKS, VolKSwagon just for starters!

    I have spoken to the gearbox engineer who we've been working with, he has told me the Mechatronic unit is a self contained unit containing the clutch servo's and is pre-filled with oil. If I'm wrong about this then please explain why, any idiot can say somebody is wrong without actually explaining why!

    I've been a truck (heavy goods vehicles) mechanic for 31 years, I've managed this workshop for 18 years, we have very little to do with cars, the gearbox specialist's main area is old fashioned auto's with torque converters, now a thing of the past so he's trying to learn the modern equivalents, attending courses and investing money, but it all takes time and experience to learn. Unfortunately their are no local DSG specialists - if there was the car would be there, there is the main dealer of course, but we all know how quickly that adds up.

    I'll also add the that the gearbox specialist's wife is currently in hospital (not local) and he's also just moved premises, so is struggling for time as well.
    It took me all of 1 minute to hit CRTL F and search the SSP 390 on the 0AM for KS....= Clutch safety valve!

    I figure if I can do this and I have already given you insight to the oil circuits and section ( which you dismissed! )....then why can't you do this?

    I wasn't being cryptic and was just trying to use the KISS method.
    It says right in the SSP that oils and fills can be observed in the RTFB.....I made a screen shot!
    I have successfully helped people with this trans now for dumb issues like this virtually and I have never personally taken one apart because they are not even here.
    You certainly took a long enough time to write this post..........Don't break my balls for trying to help you.....only people that know me usually do this with permission.
    The reason I pointed you to the SSP, was they bring more insight than the actual manual on many levels such as design and operation.
    This way it gives you the ability to understand function verse some stupid trouble tree.
    I apologize for trying to help you and you feeling insulted because you have too much experience.
    I don't know everything and I have 35 years in this sandbox.......again sorry!
    I'll go stand in the corner now because now I kind of feel insulted with the no good deed goes unpunished scenario.

    Page 41 PDF SSP 390
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
    Certified Master Trained NY/BAR/BAD 7076062/ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts
    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

  8. #16
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I'm certainly not an expert in this area but we do have this page to offer:
    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...rbox_(DSG/0AM)

    I agree with interpretation of that error:
    255 = Basic Settings was canceled because
    44 = Neutral position not possible

    Most of the e-mail inquires we receive pertaining to fault codes and the inability to finish Basic Settings are related to the mechanical removal/installation position of the Mechatronic unit so we have a wall of Special Notes on that Wiki page.

    I did not dig into the repair manual for this particular vehicle... but based on memory I think the shifter must be in N and Basic Settings 062 would be used before removing the Mechatronic unit. I think they even comment/describe reaching into the trans and making sure all of the shift forks are still in a neutral position before installing the replacement Mechatronic.

    If that doesn't help steer you in the correct direction please bump this back up.
    This is a great post Dana and explains sort of where I am tying to go with this.

    If hydraulic PSI cant be made due to a stuck valve or MEC improperly TQ'd then you cant make Neutral............Ok back to the corner...

    Hey Jack, even I don't know what "KS" means in this context.

    -Uwe-
    Wasn't the intent Uwe .....Just trying to get people to RTFB stuff and if they did, even with many years of experience............ they would see the JPPSG.

    If I was working on something I am not familiar with I'd probably sit down with a good coffee and read a little. If I didn't have time or the tools/experience I'd pass on the work or embrace the learning experience.
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 03-29-2017 at 07:19 PM.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
    Certified Master Trained NY/BAR/BAD 7076062/ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts
    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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  10. #17
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    @Dana thank you for the reply.

    We couldn't put the mechatronic into removal mode as the box was already out for the clutch to be checked, with hindsight prior to removing the box we should have put it into removal mode, but I was unaware/had forgotten - I can't remember everything I read. We had a gearbox specialist remove and fit the mechatronic unit, I suppose it's possible that the gear change plungers have not engaged properly with the selector forks.

    Jack has hinted that it could be a oil problem, but everything I've read and been told shows the mechatronic as a self contained hydraulic unit, and I'm certainly not going to take it apart or fill it with thicker oil, if it's faulty it will go back under warranty.

    I've done an awful lot of research and reading on this, but trying to run a busy commercial workshop, do the planing, ordering, invoicing means there are many pressures and many interruptions, I also have a home life.

    Sorry to the others for the following, but I feel I need to point out a few things, I'm sure Jacks trying to help but it's just complicated things for me. He seems to assume that people know what he's thinking and knows, we don't. So I'm going to try and be constructive here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    It took me all of 1 minute to hit CRTL F and search the SSP 390 on the 0AM for KS....= Clutch safety valve!

    I figure if I can do this and I have already given you insight to the oil circuits and section ( which you dismissed! )....then why can't you do this?
    Quite simple really, you've not once mentioned SSP 390, and secondly I don't have a clue as to what the SSP 390 is! If I hover the mouse over it it says Self Study Program, am I supposed to magically know what this is or where to find it??? However googling does show some results which will take yet more time to research. I didn't dismiss the oil circuits I told you the mechatronic unit had been replaced and as I understand it is a self contained unit, which my gearbox specialist has confirmed.

    I wasn't being cryptic and was just trying to use the KISS method.
    Try ready your first post in this thread and tell me that's not cryptic, it certainly isn't keeping it simple.

    It says right in the SSP that oils and fills can be observed in the RTFB.....I made a screen shot!
    Again I have no idea what the SSP is, it's has not previously been mentioned in this thread and as for RTFB it stands for Read the F*&*&&^ Book, or if I hover the mouse over it Read the Fine Bently Book, I've no real idea what this means - it may be plain as day in America, but I'm English

    I have successfully helped people with this trans now for dumb issues like this virtually and I have never personally taken one apart because they are not even here.
    It may seem like a dumb issue to you, but to me it's a big issue, I have very little experience with the Ross Tech software, and I certainly have no experience with DSG gearboxes, thats why we employed an gearbox specialist, but he doesn't have a lot of experience either with DSG's.

    You certainly took a long enough time to write this post..........
    What has that got to do with anything? Our main job is to keep the commercial vehicles running -
    rigs I think you call them in America, that's what earns the money, this is a company car and very low priority.

    Don't break my balls for trying to help you.....only people that know me usually do this with permission.
    Gee, you expect people to ask permission!

    The reason I pointed you to the SSP, was they bring more insight than the actual manual on many levels such as design and operation.
    This way it gives you the ability to understand function verse some stupid trouble tree.
    You haven't pointed me to the SSP, this is the first time it's been mentioned, and absolutely no explanation as to what it is, or any links.

    I apologize for trying to help you and you feeling insulted because you have too much experience.
    I don't know everything and I have 35 years in this sandbox.......again sorry!
    I'll go stand in the corner now because now I kind of feel insulted with the no good deed goes unpunished scenario.
    No need to apoligise for trying to help, just don't assume everyone knows what your on about, we don't know what you know and if you don't explain clearly with detail how are we supposed to know.

    Page 41 PDF SSP 390
    I can barely read the text on that picture, as per the other screen shots you've posted.

  11. #18
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Quite simple really, you've not once mentioned SSP 390, and secondly I don't have a clue as to what the SSP 390 is! If I hover the mouse over it it says Self Study Program, am I supposed to magically know what this is or where to find it??? However googling does show some results which will take yet more time to research. I didn't dismiss the oil circuits I told you the mechatronic unit had been replaced and as I understand it is a self contained unit, which my gearbox specialist has confirmed.
    OK I'm out of the corner.......
    Post #6 is a screen shot from the SSP and secondly the KS or oil paths can be observed in the repair manual too....... if you happened to observe it!
    In eight posts you have done an awful lot of whining and just because you wrote this, isn't going to change my method.

    I feel my posts if you take the time to read them, are sometimes cryptic because I try to help the masses with things like the "JPPSG" or "Short VAG".
    They were taught to me ....they are in fact OEM and they work if the other party engages the process.

    This helps me not have to explain everything each time someone does a search and it also frustrates what I deem to be the lazy trying to troll the forum with pirate cables or magic answers.

    I have my reasons ........and others ......you can always set me to IGNORE!

    Secondly, active forum members who give here, "not elsewhere" are in my brief observation and I'm not going to go searching outside the # of posts verse likes, unless actually interested in you personally & to see if what you write is worth reading that got my attention. Meh!

    What has that got to do with anything? Our main job is to keep the commercial vehicles running -
    rigs I think you call them in America, that's what earns the money, this is a company car and very low priority.
    Maybe get your checkbook out and not query the soup kitchen with a stupid approached process?
    RT does indeed offer paid help..........I will continue to stir the pot with the ladle.
    Please don't contact me for this type of support either, your money is no good to me ......I'm here for FREE!
    FREE comes with my antics....... No Sir, Yes Sir, Thank you Sir! Please RTFB Sir, Please See Short VAG or dumb video Sir....etc.etc..

    Gee, you expect people to ask permission!
    It's like with respect is earned, it is not free!...... again ....it is "earned" not purchasable .....manners that's a different story Sir...
    I made a new buddy..........?
    Want to be my friend huh ? Well let me tell yah up front I hate everyone equally!

    You haven't pointed me to the SSP, this is the first time it's been mentioned, and absolutely no explanation as to what it is, or any links.
    You are an active alleged forum member with over 20 years in the matrix .........JPPSG is in the headline Sticky of this forum!
    Additionally I shouldn't have to say anything.......it is "routine industry standard", to review design of system's before commencing with such a repair ....or has it changed?

    No need to apoligise for trying to help, just don't assume everyone knows what your on about, we don't know what you know and if you don't explain clearly with detail how are we supposed to know.
    I have not assumed other than you read the forum sticky .........I gave you specific instructions and you failed to perform them.

    Uwe in the JPPSG Sticky please add " & SSP " to RTFB in Ronski's honor ..........Diagnosing, Brain storming, & the Final Solution! section 2 but Ronski should see section 1

    I can barely read the text on that picture, as per the other screen shots you've posted.
    Yup that way you go to the RTFB or SSP to do your HW and it isn't just a magic answer for unessential personnel checking cache.
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 03-30-2017 at 09:08 AM.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
    Certified Master Trained NY/BAR/BAD 7076062/ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts
    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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  13. #19
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    Well Jack that last post amused me in a good way.

    Yes I understand you trying to educate people, but it's very easy with the internet to end up following through multiple links to understand something, and then before you know it the old brain is fried with information overload and numerous interruptions. I'd love to be able to read and fully understand the manuals for everything that passes through here (multiple different brands of vehicles), and if it was a regular problem then we would try harder, but in reality I'll probably never have to try and fix one of these again, certainly not in the near future before the old brains forgotten it all

    Anyway we've made progress, the old Mechatrocnic was dropped back today, so first chance I've had to have a good look at it, it is a self contained unit (photo's at end of the post). After looking at it I decided to look at the clutch actuators which once you move some items out the way are visible. I found a major problem, the push rod for the smaller clutch fork had come out, no idea why, perhaps it wasn't seated correctly in the first place.



    As the gearbox specialist was here with the proper release tool he got it back into place and and the car now drives, selecting all gears, but will not complete basic training, it goes through the motions, reaches 4.0.0 we start the car, after a short while it fails with a 255, 87 code, the only code description I have so far found is Gangeinleg_Synchronpos. G6 Timeout which doesn't seem to translate. At the risk of sounding lazy could I ask if anyone knows what this means please?

    The only fault code present in the vehicle is 005983, which is basic training not performed.

    I've also discovered what that Bentley & SSP refers, nothing to do with Bentley Cars

    As I've said all along the Mechatronic is a sealed unit, and we certainly shouldn't be pulling apart a new unit - this will void the warranty, here's a couple of pictures of the old unit.





    PS. I've read the complete JPPSG Sticky, and yes I can confirmed we checked charging, battery etc ;-)
    Last edited by Ronski; 03-30-2017 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Added code description

  14. #20
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    In addition to the above, could you post a link to the SSP 390, I've searched the Bentley website for both 390 and 0AM, also looked under Golf for it, but could only find the 6 speed box, not the 7 speed.

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