"total car diagnostics": unauthorized cable and VCDS "licensed" software for sale

Uwe, as we are seeing; people are unfortunately, being deceived into buying counterfeit VCDS cables and they are assuming they are legit versions of your product. Have you thought of creating a website page; to help visually identify the genuine versions of your VCDS product vs. all the fake/counterfeits? I think this would helpful to the buying community and potential new customers. Within the automotive industry, there seems to be an attempt; to help consumers, identify the real from the counterfeit products that are flooding the global market these days. I think this is a good idea and hopefully, will steer people away from the scammers. I think your average customer, wants to support the genuine creator of a product and have full access to all the benefits, you have created to back up the tool. Unfortunately, as the above post shows; one could be easily be deceived into buying a fake. A page with a visual guide; showing a side by side comparison between the "real" and the "fake" would be nice. Let us know, about this idea or if you think; you actually be helping the scammers, in fighting this ongoing problem. Thoughts? I know the VAG community wants to continue to use VCDS and support Ross Tech as a company! My VW wouldn't be on the road without it! Thanks.

billymade said:

Uwe, as we are seeing; people are unfortunately, being deceived into buying counterfeit VCDS cables and they are assuming they are legit versions of your product. Have you thought of creating a website page; to help visually identify the genuine versions of your VCDS product vs. all the fake/counterfeits? I think this would helpful to the buying community and potential new customers. Within the automotive industry, there seems to be an attempt; to help consumers, identify the real from the counterfeit products that are flooding the global market these days. I think this is a good idea and hopefully, will steer people away from the scammers. I think your average customer, wants to support the genuine creator of a product and have full access to all the benefits, you have created to back up the tool. Unfortunately, as the above post shows; one could be easily be deceived into buying a fake. A page with a visual guide; showing a side by side comparison between the "real" and the "fake" would be nice. Let us know, about this idea or if you think; you actually be helping the scammers, in fighting this ongoing problem. Thoughts? I know the VAG community wants to continue to use VCDS and support Ross Tech as a company! My VW wouldn't be on the road without it! Thanks.

Click to expand...

I've always had majorly mixed feelings about this. While it would help people identify fakes, it would also help the produces of the fakes make them much harder to identify visually if we pointed out all the differences.

I also don't think there are a whole lot of people buying clones who are being deceived. I think most people who buy a clone know exactly what they're buying. They may not know how well it will or will not work, but they know it's not a legitimate/genuine product. One strong piece of evidence: Watch eBay auctions for (used) real ones. They consistently sell for a much higher price than the clones that show up.

I'll say this much, 'cause it's obvious: If it prominently features some version number like "12.12" or "16.8", it's not real.

As far as a test, that's pretty easy. Try it with the latest software from our site. If it works, chances are excellent that it's real. If it comes with a Panda CD, or a link to download software someplace other than our site, and an admonishment not to download or update directly from us, it's not real.

The latest version of VCDS still works with every interface we've sold since early in 2004 (more than 13 years ago) and some that are even older than that.

-Uwe-

You can feel the pain of paying for a good tool once, or feel the pain every time you use a cheap tool.....

Uwe said:

I've always had majorly mixed feelings about this. While it would help people identify fakes, it would also help the produces of the fakes make them much harder to identify visually if we pointed out all the differences.

I also don't think there are a whole lot of people buying clones who are being deceived. I think most people who buy a clone know exactly what they're buying. They may not know how well it will or will not work, but they know it's not a legitimate/genuine product. One strong piece of evidence: Watch eBay auctions for (used) real ones. They consistently sell for a much higher price than the clones that show up.

I'll say this much, 'cause it's obvious: If it prominently features some version number like "12.12" or "16.8", it's not real.

As far as a test, that's pretty easy. Try it with the latest software from our site. If it works, chances are excellent that it's real. If it comes with a Panda CD, or a link to download software someplace other than our site, and an admonishment not to download or update directly from us, it's not real.

The latest version of VCDS still works with every interface we've sold since early in 2004 (more than 13 years ago) and some that are even older than that.

-Uwe-

Click to expand...

Uwe: the suitability of Ross Tech's latest SW to older model cables speaks volumes for the farsighted design of the early developer(s?) - but with due respect to this genius, there must come a time when the need to accommodate these old cables compromises the performance/functionality of the latest incarnation of your devices!

Don't get me wrong, I think that it's laudable that Ross Tech has made the effort not to follow the planned-obsolescence mantra of almost every other modern product manufacturer (which has the clear advantage of re-purchase sales). But even the most hardened user of your cables has to acknowledge that in today's world of vehicle technology, a cable purchased "more than 13 years ago" has in all likelihood paid for itself many times over - I think! And if the cable hasn't more than paid for itself by now- then it probably never will!

The ubiquitous application of Ross Tech's software clearly has an advantage to those who own these older cables, but whilst I acknowledge that I don't know the specifics, I suspect that there must also be disadvantages which must be brought to account in the newer models (be these additional costs, larger file size, programming compromises etc). But perhaps the most crucial factor to the continuing longevity of these older cables has to be the simple innovation in technology over the intervening years - which none of those early developers could be expected to have predicted (no offense intended to any designers who are still at Ross Tech)

Shirley the design stress from modern technology on these older cables has to break something soon?

Don

PS: And I agree with your hypothesis that most (many, nearly all) purchasers of fake cables knowingly do so -the defense of ignorance is in all but a very, very few cases an outright lie and a feeble and a thinly veiled attempt at subterfuge!

Don,

Not all HEX+CAN cables are 13 years old. We only stopped selling them in December.

Ending support of the old cables in a new version of VCDS at some point in the future has certainly been considered, but it's not going to happen anytime soon, mainly because I don't want to do that to the honest customers who paid us their hard-earned money for the real deal.

-Uwe-

Uwe said:

Ending support of the old cables in a new version of VCDS at some point in the future has certainly been considered, but it's not going to happen anytime soon, mainly because I don't want to do that to the honest customers who paid us their hard-earned money for the real deal.

Click to expand...

Please don't discontinue support for my original ISO-COM (RS-232 interface) cable. My only Windows computer doesn't have a USB port!

For Don's benefit, my cable pre-dates both VCDS and the product formerly known as [banned name], and actually came without a hood on the OBD connector because they weren't available from anywhere at the time.....

vreihen said:

Please don't discontinue support for my original ISO-COM (RS-232 interface) cable. My only Windows computer doesn't have a USB port!

Click to expand...

Yep, we still have software for that:
http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds-lite/download/index.php
But it hasn't been updated in almost 5 years.

Of course, VW hasn't made any cars that a K-Line interface will work with since roughly 2010. I believe the T5 and the original NB were the last of those.

I'm pretty sure I could find a HEX-COM+CAN for you too, but if your computer doesn't have USB, I'm not sure it would run a current version of VCDS gracefully.

vreihen said:

For Don's benefit, my cable pre-dates both VCDS and the product formerly known as [banned name], and actually came without a hood on the OBD connector because they weren't available from anywhere at the time.....

Click to expand...

Is the OBD-II connector on yours red or black?

vreihen said:

For Don's benefit, my cable pre-dates both VCDS and the product formerly known as [banned name], and actually came without a hood on the OBD connector because they weren't available from anywhere at the time.....

Click to expand...

ooohhhhh...............picture please!

Uwe said:

I'm pretty sure I could find a HEX-COM+CAN for you too, but if your computer doesn't have USB, I'm not sure it would run a current version of VCDS gracefully.

Click to expand...

You sent me an upgraded cable via Jack @ Waterfest several years back. I leave the ancient notebook with the pre-[banned name] [estate] software in the roller toolbox of my race car hauler for emergencies. I never got to install [banned name] on it, because the external floppy drive failed, and it doesn't have a CD drive, wifi, ethernet, or a working modem port.

I keep the new cable in my work notebook bag, along with a huge collection of other miscellaneous cables for programming various pieces of hardware at work. A co-worker was digging through my cables looking for one he didn't have a few years ago, and he pulled out the cable staring at the OBD connector. I told him that it was the console cable for a UNIVAC Mk2.

Is the OBD-II connector on yours red or black?

Click to expand...

Red...because red is the fastest color.

DV52 said:

ooohhhhh...............picture please!

Click to expand...

Mine is still snowed into the trailer, but here's Uwe's picture of this first-gen cable:



Rumor has it that they were all assembled by a large Amish family sitting around their kitchen table by candlelight.....

vreihen said:

Rumor has it that they were all assembled by a large Amish family sitting around their kitchen table by candlelight.....

Click to expand...

Uhm, I'm not Amish and neither is my wife.

However, I did do the epoxy potting on the kitchen table.

Yeah and those that have the original hot glued version, in the "family circle of trust" have fuses in stock and the long extension cable too!


I recall the words of excitement from Uwe back then " I can't wait to get this protocol analyzer that's in route to me "

Jack@European_Parts said:

I recall the words of excitement from Uwe back then " I can't wait to get this protocol analyzer that's in route to me "

Click to expand...

Yup -- 'cause by then it had become apparent that there was no way to do figure out how to do KW-1281 correctly without one (as well as a real VAG-155x).

Uwe said:

Uhm, I'm not Amish and neither is my wife.

Click to expand...

But you don't deny that the cables were hand-made in southeast PA by candlelight?

Jack@European_Parts said:

Yeah and those that have the original hot glued version, in the "family circle of trust" have fuses in stock and the long extension cable too!

Click to expand...

You got a fuse with yours?!?!? I guess Uwe didn't fear that I would blow my cable up.....

vreihen said:

But you don't deny that the cables were hand-made in southeast PA by candlelight?

Click to expand...

Hand-made, absolutely. For the first year or so, my wife and I made every one. But candlelight was never needed.

vreihen said:

You got a fuse with yours?!?!? I guess Uwe didn't fear that I would blow my cable up.....

Click to expand...

Open it up. There's a spare fuse taped under the lid.

-Uwe-

Uwe said:

Open it up. There's a spare fuse taped under the lid.

Click to expand...

Wow! The first documented Ross-Tech easter egg!!!

Can't say that I ever opened it up, since I never blew the fuse.....

Wow! The first documented Ross-Tech easter egg!!!

Can't say that I ever opened it up, since I never blew the fuse.....

Click to expand...

Not so fast Art.........


You only used yours but a mere handful of times, that is why back then...... you didn't blow a fuse.

Radio under water 01L/01V trans, ABS modules and headlight control modules in the TT convertible were notorious for shorting 12V on the K line.

It is why this was created shortly afterward.



The more you know when in the actual trenches.......

Good thing that I don't own a convertible.....

vreihen said:

Rumor has it that they were all assembled by a large Amish family sitting around their kitchen table by candlelight.....

Click to expand...

Yabba dabba doo! - did the cable work on the OBD version fitted on these precursor VW cars?



.... and what is "RS-232" - some form of black magic protocol used by the ancient druids?

Don

PS: serious question - what did these cables NOT do, that that the current cables do?

Jack@European_Parts said:

Click to expand...

Jack: WTF is that? An early form of bluetooth dongle?

Don

DV52 said:

PS: serious question - what did these cables NOT do, that that the current cables do?

Click to expand...

They only supported a single K-Line (and the L-line). No second K-Line, no CAN bus. They were "dumb pass through" cables, meaning the PC's serial port had to be used to determine the arbitrary baud rate that a particular control module wanted to use. They never did work 100% on some of the nastiest modules, primarily due to latency in the Windows serial drivers.

DV52 said:

Jack: WTF is that? An early form of bluetooth dongle?

Click to expand...

Nope. It's a K-line tester. Sold primarily to dealerships to keep them from letting the magic smoke out of their old VAG-155x tools when a customer showed up with a car in which the K-line was shorted to +12. For a while there, some dealers were refusing to scan any car with an aftermarket radio, 'cause it was not cheap to get those tools of theirs fixed, and they weren't fused (or otherwise protected).

-Uwe-