Audi A4 petrol 3.2 CLCA 2009 non start

   #1  

PhillW

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Hi all please see attached scan
we have a ~Fault codes P3053 starter returned message 50 short to ground
P3088 stater relay electrical malfunction no signal communication
There is no live data for engine ecu first in VCDS and also in snap on scanner

We have checked starter, works fine through starter relay. (Both small starter relays J53 and J695 work fine) is not being earthed out by ecu through pin T94 77 .
The ignition switch I Believe is working correctly as the warning light for press clutch pedal does not retun when pressed/operated correctly so im presuming ecu is recieving mesage that ignition switch wants to start

I Am hoping someone has had this Problem or can see where im going wrong with testing this System
Thanks Phillip Winkworth

Code:
Friday,29,April,2016,13:11:21:27229
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.4.1 (x64)
Data version: 20160216
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUZZZ8K49A083864   License Plate: BEN
Mileage: 131080km-81449mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 8K (8T0)
Scan: 01 03 05 08 09 15 16 17 19 42 46 47 52 53 56 62 72

VIN: WAUZZZ8K49A083864   Mileage: 131080km-81449miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 1010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CALA)       Labels: 06E-907-559-CAL.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 907 559 E    HW: 8T0 907 559 A
   Component: 3.2 SIMOS8.2  H02 0001  
   Revision: --------    
   Coding: 01040003180F0119
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM32FSI8T0907559E A01001
   ROD: EV_ECM32FSI8T0907559E.rod
   VCID: 448CDEBCCFF1821E1A-8010

7 Faults Found:
6480 - Starter Control; Returned Message 
          P3053 00 [228] - 50 Short to Ground
          MIL ON - Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Date: 2016.04.20
                    Time: 19:26:05

6484 - Starter Relay 
          P3088 00 [228] - Electrical Malfunction
          MIL ON - Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Date: 2016.04.20
                    Time: 19:26:05

6360 - Manifold Pressure Sensor (G71) 
          P1156 00 [036] - Open/Short to Ground
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 1048574 km
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 00:00:00

6473 - Camshaft Timing Adj. Bank1 (N205) 
          P1528 00 [036] - Open Circuit
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Date: 2016.04.22
                    Time: 18:24:39

6476 - Camshaft Timing Adj. Bank2 (N208) 
          P1536 00 [036] - Open Circuit
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Date: 2016.04.22
                    Time: 18:24:39

6467 - Bank1; Exhaust Cam Adjustment Valve 1 (N318) 
          P1050 00 [036] - Open Circuit
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Date: 2016.04.22
                    Time: 18:24:39

6470 - Bank2; Exhaust Cam Adjustment Valve 2 (N319) 
          P1054 00 [036] - Open Circuit
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Date: 2016.04.22
                    Time: 18:24:39

Readiness: 0110 0101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels: 8K0-907-379-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 379 AD    HW: 8K0 907 379 AD
   Component: ESP8 quattro  H04 0060  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 0D0D00
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 7BFE6540FA8F3DE62B-802E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. (J393)       Labels: 8K0-907-064-05.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 C    HW: 8K0 907 064 C
   Component: BCM2 1.1      H70 0134  
   Revision: 00002001    
   Coding: 031100
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 3064826C63490EBECE-8064

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8T0 959 754 D    HW: 8T0 959 754 D
   Component: FBSAUDIB8 IDG  H37 0060 

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8K0 905 852 D    HW: 8K0 905 852 D
   Component: ELVAUDIB8  H36 0041 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No SW: 8T2 820 043 S    HW: 8T2 820 043 S
   Component: KLIMA 3 ZONEN H06 0140  
   Revision: D0000000    Serial number: 0117.07.081049
   Coding: 46040000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 4280D8A4DDE58C2E28-8016

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels: 8K0-907-063.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 063 A    HW: 8K0 907 063 A
   Component: BCM1 1.0      H22 0253  
   Revision: 02022001    Serial number: 00000000183865
   Coding: 690040B10034A7010001000000005F5F0F1D020800000141000000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 2D5A9B18747B6356E5-8078

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K2 955 119 A    HW: 8T2 955 119   Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: WWS 110708  H05 0070 
   Coding: 00FD11

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8K0 955 559     HW: 8K0 955 559   Labels: 8K0-955-559.CLB
   Component: RLS  H04 0003 
   Coding: 025028

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8K0 941 531 G    HW: 8K0 941 531 G
   Component: E1 - LDS  H07 0070 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels: 8K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 655 B    HW: 8K0 959 655 B
   Component: AirbagVW-AU10 H26 0410  
   Serial number: 0038JD17THLW  
   Coding: 30363434363030303030554A3052384B3053
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010 A02007
   ROD: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010_AU48.rod
   VCID: 3C7CA65CB701FADE62-8068

   Crash sensor for side airbag; driver side: 
   Serial number: 6334MSME3E36104BF

   Crash sensor for side airbag; front passenger side: 
   Serial number: 6344MSME3E15480BK

   Crash sensor for side airbag; rear; driver side: 
   Serial number: 6352QSME78763A51O

   Crash sensor for side airbag; rear; passenger side: 
   Serial number: 6362QSME6C597809Y

   Crash sensor for front airbag; driver side: 
   Serial number: 63732SME7E7048354

   Crash sensor for front airbag; front passenger side: 
   Serial number: 63832SME6B79266DH

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels: 8K0-953-568.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 953 568 F    HW: 8K0 953 568 F
   Component: Lenks.Modul   H13 0013  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 90304HGL0006K 
   Coding: 000016
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 3D7AAB58A41BF3D655-8068

   Component: E221 - MFL  H02 0003 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels: 8T0-920-xxx-17.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 920 980     HW: 8K0 920 980 
   Component: KOMBIINSTR.   H16 0221  
   Revision: 00200000    Serial number: 99256NM78     
   Coding: 2F04090003002600010000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 6FE64110BEF7514697-803A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels: 8T0-907-468.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 907 468 H    HW: 8T0 907 468 H
   Component: GW-BEM 5CAN   H06 0091  
   Revision: GB102039    Serial number: 3900G08710813E
   Coding: 000303
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 4688C4B4F1CDB00E04-8012

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 915 181 B    HW: 8K0 915 181 B
   Component: J367-BDM  H04 0150 

3 Faults Found:
03041 - Energy Management Active 
            000 -  -  - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 7
                    Fault Frequency: 21
                    Reset counter: 203
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2016.04.18
                    Time: 16:35:00

01314 - Engine Control Module 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 203
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2016.04.22
                    Time: 18:03:53

01312 - Powertrain Data Bus 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 203
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2016.04.22
                    Time: 18:03:53


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels: 8K0-959-793.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 793 B    HW: 8K0 959 793 
   Component: TSG FA        H10 0170  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000007437035 
   Coding: 011C02205001410001
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 3F86D150AE17E1C647-806A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. (J393)       Labels: 8K0-907-064-46.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 C    HW: 8K0 907 064 C
   Component: BCM2 1.1      H70 0134  
   Revision: 00002001    Serial number: 0112917544    
   Coding: 011B0622003904C0003001
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 3064826C63490EBECE-8064

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8K0 951 177 
   Component: DWA-Sensor  H02 0040 

3 Faults Found:
01134 - Alarm Horn (H12) 
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 163
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2016.04.18
                    Time: 16:36:27

02616 - Fuel Tank Cap; Unlock 
            009 - Open or Short to Ground
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 163
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2016.04.18
                    Time: 16:47:12

02615 - Fuel Tank Cap; Lock 
            009 - Open or Short to Ground
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 163
                    Mileage: 131088 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2016.04.18
                    Time: 16:56:13


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System (J525)       Labels: 8T0-035-223-ASC.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 035 223 AB    HW: 8T0 035 223 
   Component: DSP STD       H07 0220  
   Revision: S1900000    
   Coding: 0203010101
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 6ED85C14B9FD584E9C-803A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387)       Labels: 8K0-959-792.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 792 B    HW: 8K0 959 792 
   Component: TSG BF        H10 0170  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000007486660 
   Coding: 011C02205001410001
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 3E78AC54A91DE8CE4C-806A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 53: Parking Brake (J540)       Labels: 8K0-907-801-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 801 E    HW: 8K0 907 801 E
   Component: EPB Audi B8   H05 0060  
   Revision: 00000003    Serial number: 00000000180888
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 31628768684307B6C1-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels: 8Tx-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 8T2 035 195 H    HW: 8T2 035 195 H
   Component: Symphony3     H02 0210  
   Revision: 00000004    Serial number: AUZ5Z4H1029303
   Coding: 0502008001010D004359070000
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 3D7AAB58A41BF3D655-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8T0 919 603 A    HW: 8T0 919 603 A
   Component: Display  

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left (J388)       Labels: 8K0-959-795.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 795     HW: 8K0 959 795 
   Component: TSG HL        H06 0170  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000007490103 
   Coding: 010C02204001210001
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 7F069150EE9721C607-802A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right (J389)       Labels: 8K0-959-794.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 794     HW: 8K0 959 795 
   Component: TSG HR        H06 0170  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000007451427 
   Coding: 010C02204001210001
   Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
   VCID: 7EF86C54E99D28CE0C-802A

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:27)--------------------------
 
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   #2  

DrPeter

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Hello,

...we have a ~Fault codes P3053 starter returned message 50 short to ground
P3088 stater relay electrical malfunction no signal communication

- I would recommend to use the Factory wiring Diagrams and check the starter relay's connections,
sounds like the ECM is not seeing the return message(positive voltage) from the (D97) circuit.



There is no live data for engine ecu first in VCDS and also in snap on scanner

- There is a lot of information about the starter in the ECM's Advanced Measuring Value Blocks, when using VCDS.

Simply use the 'filter' filed box in the Advanced Measuring Values

- You should see these values (and more), when you enter the key word "Starter" ...

277 = Starter control; clutch switch
278 = Starter control; interlock switch
279 = Starter; measure-back wire term. 50 R
280 = Starter; start relay 1
281 = Starter; start relay 2
282 = Starter; starter request terminal 50


- If the other codes [Open Circuit] do not clear check the SB7 fuse.


For more information about checking these types of fault codes, please see this Ross-Tech forum page.

Testing - Open Circuits, Short to Ground or Positive, etc


Hope this helps,

drpeter
 
   #3  

Uwe

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I don't suppose the Starter Relay, the Manifold Pressure Sensor, and the Cam Adjusting Solenoids all have a common source of power?

-Uwe-
 
   #4  

Jack@European_Parts

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I'd probably have a quick look at J329 ( Terminal 15 Relay ) via WD with all shared on its tracks, and after all respective fuses were FIRST verified.

Be careful:
The WD has specific criteria related to date of production for this vehicle for line changes.


You marked the engine code incorrectly in your title, however, VCDS saves the day.

Audi A4 petrol 3.2 CLCA <<<<<<<<2009 non start

Address 01: Engine (J623-CALA) <<<<<<<<< Labels: 06E-907-559-CAL.clb
Part No SW: 8T0 907 559 E HW: 8T0 907 559 A
Component: 3.2 SIMOS8.2 H02 0001
Revision: --------
Coding: 01040003180F0119
Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000

Another reason for the consistency check with JPPSG.
http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...essional-Problem-Solver-Guide-quot-JPPSG-quot

Note to OP:
If you find you would not like me to help in this thread, kindly ask me not to, and I will stay away.
 
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   #5  

DrPeter

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Hi...

I don't suppose the Starter Relay, the Manifold Pressure Sensor, and the Cam Adjusting Solenoids all have a common source of power?

- I was thinking that too at first, then looking at the diagram I see:


Positive battery power from Battery to the SA2 Fuse

- Fuse SA2 provides 30-power to the J757
- The SB7 fuse is powered by the J757-ECM relay
- SB7 provides power to the [G71, N205, N208, etc...]

Also...
- Fuse SA2 also provides 30-power to the J329-Terminal 15 power
- The J329 then provides power (terminal-50) to the Starter relays J53 and J695.

- So I would imagine there would be no 15-power if we lost the common power source, SA2 Fuse... \

I would like to add that I would verify the starter relays have power on the [86-terminal] and then to see if there is ground/[85-terminal] coming from the ECM.

- Use a good wiring diagram... ;)


drpeter
 
   #6  

Jack@European_Parts

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It might be a good idea to know why this exists.

3 Faults Found:
03041 - Energy Management Active
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 21
Reset counter: 203
Mileage: 131088 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.04.18
Time: 16:35:00

01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 203
Mileage: 131088 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.04.22
Time: 18:03:53

01312 - Powertrain Data Bus
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 1
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 203
Mileage: 131088 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.04.22
Time: 18:03:53


or these

3 Faults Found:
01134 - Alarm Horn (H12)
004 - No Signal/Communication
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 163
Mileage: 131088 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.04.18
Time: 16:36:27

02616 - Fuel Tank Cap; Unlock
009 - Open or Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 163
Mileage: 131088 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.04.18
Time: 16:47:12

02615 - Fuel Tank Cap; Lock
009 - Open or Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 163
Mileage: 131088 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.04.18
Time: 16:56:13
 
   #8  

DrPeter

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We have checked starter, works fine through starter relay. (Both small starter relays J53 and J695 work fine) is not being earthed out by ecu through pin T94 77 .

- I did not see your statement above. :p

You will NOT see the ECM grounding the T94/77 pin at the ECM, this is a monitoring circuit, to watch the starter signal, 50-power. When the starter gets 50-power the ECM need to know, this is how it knows. Sorry about that..

Any way, the ECM will be grounding the two relays from ECM Pins T94/8 and T94/30 to deliver the 50-power to the starter. Check these two terminals...



also. . . .



Check TSB 2022649 (about the P3053 ) - Maybe affected by bad ECU

Hi...

I saw the above mentioned TPI:2022649/3 earlier when doing a little research too, Date: 24-Aug-2010 and it does state the following:

"Engine does not start in automatic start. If the ignition key is held, the engine starts without problems."

- So it is a good document to reference, I would not condemn the ECM, yet ... ;)



drpeter
 
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   #9  

Jack@European_Parts

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Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who misreads a post or makes a mistake. :p

OP....... Peter just made me think of something.

Is it possible someone installed an aftermarket starter lock out device for FOD?
 
   #10  

PhillW

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First of all Thank you for all your excellent replies

we decided to save and clear codes and see what came back, the fault codes for camshaft and manifold were caused by us swapping around two of the same relays one for engine managment, the reason for this is erwins layout of this fuse box in scuttle for both left and right hand drive are different to this cars, it does not show both the small starter relays (which id already swapped around all same part numbers) while iv been off even though the two relays tested fine two new relays were fitted
Drpeters reply for advanced measurng blocks was nice didnt know it existed, when key pressed and held all start blocks selected turned from zeros to 1 exept Starter; measure-back wire term. 50 R, not only did it not switch also starter relay two direct feed to starter motor only switched very briefly, we soldered a wire into old relay 2 for earth which goes rightly to pin 94/30 ecu, when starer switch operated this remained 12volts We decided to earth pin through wire when key pushed in, this operated starter motor and started, so all other systems work fine exept this one
However as is so often the case the good or bad news is i removed this relay unsoldered wire refitted and its been starting fine since and even with the new relay so tomorrow im going to have a looked at the connection on the rear of relay holder to see if theres a bad connection
I had already test this wire back to ecu for continuatey it was good tomorrow i I will isolate it and load test it

I Will get back to you with results if there anything you can see i need to do please let me Know

Thanks again Phillip Winkworth
 
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   #11  

Keithuk

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   #12  

Jack@European_Parts

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That is why when in doubt of a relay location or if a WD is accurate........
As a rule:
Always run a tone generator on the respective output in error, and verify the signal is at that relay you are investigating......then load verify the tracks ability to carry current!
 
   #13  

scanboy83

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5
Location
Morocco
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=197556
hi
i have Audi A4 petrol 3.2 CLCA no crank
and same faults
any help please
 
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