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Thread: P0106 - What Causes It?

  1. #21
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Really? How so?

    -Uwe-

    This is a direct link from the EPA website & just for one of the violations committed by the VW scandal, when using a defeat device, where did this get them besides #1 car manufacturer?

    Isn't it about a mindset to do things right and consider all possible issues for a problem, not police the world, but the penalties/liabilities should be considered, including throwing un-needed parts at cars because you can't do a proper diagnosis with the OBD tools & additional self inflicted penalty as injury?

    The OP said he did all tests and seems as if he is "very experienced" in his field, further being puzzled leaving little room for such speculation?

    Since this second user has demonstrated in the past that he engages in emissions defeats or altering & maybe unknowingly, which I doubt, but with no reply to the last thread to show properly rectified? I can only suspect this car too may have them also giving him grief, no? I just thought he'd like to know why its such a liability, in addition to how effective tests may be missing or data in VCDS as a result, right? OP complained about repair price points and as if that was some reason for justification, but dumped unneeded money vs actual correct troubleshooting skills with VCDS & that could of saved him money, no?

    If tests are possibly omitted, they can't be done correctly or with VCDS and why FOD is such a serious consideration to be "not dismissed", right?

    This is why I said what I did, about doing what I already recommended, but when I pointed him back to the beginning to start over & rethink or recheck, he took an op-positional tone with me or as if I was dismissing him?

    You know that trim at idle is a valuable tool to be used when isolating possible air leaks or PCV stuff using VCDS in blocks.

    Should we send people off to use VCDS & with a possible void to proceed or advise them to say hey, do these things first and verify "X" for best success?

    I dont know about most shops, but I am kind of pissed off at the OEM or Deltree tuners, when the real aftermarket small business is getting dicked out of good service work, parts sales or diagnostic work because, some jerk just alters the stack. When all these TDI cars got bought back by VW, AFT/we lost, when cars got made to be under warranty extension, again we lost. When Tuners do this we lose again and so do future owners that buy cars for $3500 USD and can't fix them correctly when they are trying real hard to understand why VCDS doesn't even display a DTC.


    There appears there are many sides................and then there are people that are dead from key fobs that don't auto-shut off the car by Darwin process.
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 05-20-2018 at 07:48 AM.
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  2. #22
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    The code will return every time within 5 mins of driving EXCEPT if I disconnect the Purge valve line from the TB and cap the nipple, allowing the purge valve to vent to atmosphere but also not see any vac. I have driven over 1.5 hours it that way and zero soft codes so far. I am stumped
    There should be little doubt that the EVAP N80 circuit is at fault here & if the problem is as aforementioned.





    Getting back to why VCDS is important and the use of proper path for testing for MAP or other issue EVAP false air leak, causing MAP sensor issues & before spending money on parts.

    This test process is so simple to diagnose & easily, with aid of crimp isolation tests, while further observing block trim values or DTC trigger in VCDS or possible wiring issues.

    Realize the MAP sensor has a range, once deviated past a positive or negative threshold, it will cause a DTC regardless of NA or forced induction, so establish that first by identifying & the type fuel system strategy to familiarize oneself with good information such as JPPSG & RTFB.

    Second poster supplied serious inconsistent information & became argumentative & right out of the gate when first things to be considered are identified to be recommended.

    The OBD2 system and DCY's vs actual VAG proprietary side VCDS sees & posts an instant soft code, is such an asset, use it for F*** sake & when doing tests like this.

    You don't drive the car around like a schmuck & waiting for the MIL or slow data to come up in OBD2 & praying the MIL won't illuminate.

    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...0/P0106/000262
    16490/P0106/000262 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal

    Possible Symptoms


    • Erratic Idle

    Possible Causes


    • Wiring and/or Connections from/to Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) faulty
    • Leak in Air Intake and/or Exhaust
    • Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) faulty
    • Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) wrong part installed, see notes.
    • Engine Control Module faulty

    Possible Solutions


    • Check Engine Control Module Software Version <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Second poster negates
      • See Special Notes for Details

    • Check Timing
      • See Special Notes for Details

    • Check Wiring and/or Connections from/to Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96)
    • Check for Leak in Air Intake and/or Exhaust
    • Check/Replace Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96)
    • Check/Replace Engine Control Module

    Special Notes


    • On certain smaller Engines we've seen cases where a buggy Engine Control Unit Firmware can cause these fault codes, additionally there are known Problems with the Timing Chain Tensioners which can also result in these fault codes. Please refer to the related TPL/TSB for more instructions.
    • The F96 can be an internal part of the ECM.

    2.5L Gasoline specific notes


    • Measuring block 201.3 appears to contain the F96 ECM Baro pressure sensor in the CBTA 2.5L in addition to older MAF equipped 2.5L engines such as the BGP. ST?ID=79232
    • On some 2.5L engines, there can be a Secondary Air Injection (SAI) sensor, G609. This sensor and the MAP sensor can have the same physical shape and be mixed up. MAP sensors will start with part number "03C" and SAI sensors will start with part number "07C".

    I scoured the TSB list for this car and did not see any mention of a software update to address MAP sensor errors/sensitivity. Is the old software a possible culprit IYO?

    Did you really?


    • When found in NAR (North American Region) 2011-2013 Jetta, Golf, Passat and New Beetle vehicles with 2.5L engine codes CBTA and CBUA see TSB 01-14-23 -or- TPI 2034012. When applicable, DTCs P050A, P0507 and P0106 are resolved after flash updating the Engine controller.

    https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...by-john-nelson


    P0106 Trouble code definition

    Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) Barometric Pressure Sensor Electric Circuit Output Range and Performance Problem
    What the P0106 code means

    P0106 is the general code for a problem with the MAP circuit having problem of incorrect voltage output range or an issue with engine performance. The MAP sensor is an integral part of the fuel injection system and provides signals to the Engine Control Unit (ECU) for smooth operation and good fuel economy along with proper performance and power.
    What causes the P0106 code?

    The MAP circuit for range and performance problem may have several causes:

    • The source of the problem is that the MAP sensor range voltage output is incorrect and out of the programmed input required by the ECU.
    • The most common problem is an air intake system vacuum or intake hose being loose, cracked, or missing it’s plastic fittings and clamps.
    • The wiring or MAP sensor may be bad, brittle, cracked, have a bad connection, or could be too close to the higher voltage consumption components, especially alternators, ignition wires, etc. A poor electrical ground can cause problems also.
    • The sensor itself may simply be operating out of range from fatigue in it’s internal components.
    • MAP sensors must operate within specific ranges to send correct signals for the ECU to coordinate with the throttle position sensor and adjust correctly for proper engine operation.
    • If the engine is not in good condition, is missing, has poor fuel pressure, or there is an internal issue with the engine like a burned valve, it can prevent the MAP sensor from getting a correct output.
    • The ECU could also be bad but that is rare.

    What are the symptoms of the P0106 code?

    P0106 code will be generally preceded by the Check Engine Light coming on the dashboard display. The vehicle in most cases will not run well, idle poorly, accelerate erratically, run rich, and backfire because the MAP sensor and throttle position sensor will not operate together properly.
    How does a mechanic diagnose the P0106 code?

    P0106 is diagnosed with an OBD- II scanner. A qualified technician should then reset the OBD- II fault codes and perform a road test of the vehicle to see if the code comes back. He can observe this by watching live data streaming on his scanner while driving. If the code comes back, then the mechanic will need to do a close inspection to see if the vacuum line and other hoses on the intake system are missing, loose, damaged, or disconnected. If these things appear to be correct, the technician should do a voltage output test on the sensor while the engine is running to determine if the output voltages fluctuate with engine speed and load on the engine. Check that all grounds are operating correctly, since any ground related to the ECU could cause signal fluctuations from sensors.
    Common mistakes when diagnosing the P0106 code.

    Diagnostic errors are largely due to not following the proper procedure. First, follow the test procedure in the diagnosis to insure there is no intake air leak like a bad vacuum hose or connection. The technician must verify that the voltage output of the MAP sensor is correct and fluctuates with the engine speed and proper voltage. Idle voltage is normally 1 to 1.5 volts and full throttle is usually around 4.5 volts.
    Do not buy a new MAP Sensor or ECU unless it is clearly at fault.
    How serious is the P0106 code?

    The P0106 code will result in poor running of the engine and requires immediate attention. Have the vehicle diagnosed as soon as possible. The MAP sensor issue can cause excessive fuel consumption, rough operation and difficulty starting in certain circumstances, and can cause other damage if continued to be driven. Occasionally, if no problems are found, the technician can reset the fault codes and retest it to see if the code or engine light comes back on.
    Often times, if the engine warning light comes on immediately at startup, then the OBD- II system can be reset and the vehicle will operate normally.
    What repairs can fix the P0106 code?

    The most common potential repairs to address the P0106 code are as follows:

    • Verify the code with an OBD-II scanner. Reset the fault codes and perform a road test of the vehicle.
    • If the P0106 code comes back, then follow the test procedure.
    • Inspect the vacuum lines and intake hoses for cracked, loose or missing parts and electrical connector and wiring. Disconnect the electrical connector and then reinstall to insure a fresh and positive electrical connection. Then check the voltage output on the MAP sensor to see if it is in the correct range.
    • At this point it is best to determine if the MAP sensor is defective and if it has no or incorrect output, then replace the MAP sensor. If all checks are good, then a final test to determine if the ECU is bad must be done.

    Additional comments for consideration regarding the P0106 code

    Many vehicles with mileage over 100,000 have momentary sensor problems that usually occur during start up or prolonged stress situations on the drive train. If the engine warning light comes on and the vehicle seems to be operating normally, the OBD-II system can be reset using the scanner and the problem may not reoccur. This is why it is important to verify the fault and reset it before doing any repairs.
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 05-20-2018 at 09:03 AM.
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  3. #23
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 05-20-2018 at 08:01 PM.
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  4. #24
    Verified VCDS User phelmerj's Avatar
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    Had same issue with my 2012 Passat 2.5l. New PCV and cleaned residual oil in intake out. May also want to check the wiring to sensor for resistance with help of ERWIN WD. I did this and also the pin connections on ECU as improper connection with resistance with drive you absolutely nuts.
    Phil

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  6. #25
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    P0106 returns after 2 years

    I'm the original OP for this thread, from 4.21.16 and, after 2 years the problem's back. I've got some thoughts and I'm looking for some input.

    1st some history:
    2 years ago: The P0106 was showing up anytime I accelerated hard or got caught in stop and go traffic. I did the following:
    1. Replaced PCV valve (1st I tried just the diaphragm, then the entire valve cover). No effect.
    2. Replaced the N80 valve. Seemed to fix it for about a week then same as before. Maybe the temporary fix was the result of disconnecting the battery for the N80 changeout.
    3. Replaced the MAP sensor. Problem gone.

    6 months ago it started to reappear. It's not as bad as before but it's getting there. The fault shows up 2 or 3 times a week. As before it causes the transmission controller (09G trans) to register an engine controller fault and go into limp mode.

    I replaced the MAP sensor again and it had no effect.

    I put a Mity-Vac on the N80. It holds vacuum. Not perfectly, It will decay from 25" to 0" in about 1 minute. That seems like an awfully slow leak to be causing this problem.

    There's a moderate vacuum on the oil cap. I can't measure it, but when I had a torn PCV diaphragm before (I botched the PCV replacement the 1st time) the vacuum was great enough that I almost couldn't lift the cap.

    I ran the 1-4-070 and 071 tests and they both pass. Although in the two days since I did them the problem hasn't occurred. Maybe the N80 is going bad and cycling it with the test helped?

    Ran some data logs. They seem a little odd.
    - At idle MAP is a steady 400 mbara
    - at steady highway speed the MAP fluctuates from 450 to 700 mbara. The fluctuation may be normal given variable loading from gradual grade changes, trucks passing etc., but it's jagged, moving in 100 - 150 mbar up and down swings over 5 sec intervals. What do you think?

    I'd post a log but the forum says I can't post attachments. Any way around that?

    Thanks for your help on this. If the problem comes back and I can catch the excursion above 1000 mbara on a data log, I'm going to try clamping off the line on the vacuum side of the N80 to see what happens. Also, N80 valves are inexpensive. It's time to order a new batch of oil filters so I'll add one of those to the order and change it out if the problem comes back.

  7. #26
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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  8. #27
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartolm View Post
    I'd post a log but the forum says I can't post attachments. Any way around that?
    Paste the text in-line between CODE tags. Or upload to a Google Spreadsheet, share it, and post a link.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  9. #28
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    OK, it's fixed again, let's see for how long. Here's the story:
    - Replaced the N80 valve because the old one was leaking, very slowly, and the replacement is cheap. Couldn't find any other source of vacuum leakage. All the hoses are good. Ran it for a week. No difference. P0106 popping up and transmission going into limp mode almost every day.
    - Replaced the battery. It was 5 years old and getting weak. Then on Saturday morning it was dead and I had to jump the car. Went straight to the parts store. After the battery replacement I had two more instances of the transmission going into limp mode (maybe it was recalibrating?). Both cleared on an engine restart. Since then nothing. It's been running 3 weeks with no codes and no transmission problems. This seems odd since, once the car is running, voltage was normal, even with the old battery, but I'm not going to argue with sucess. Somebody on VW Vortex made a comment that VW's start throwing codes when the battery is old.

  10. #29
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    OK, it's fixed again, let's see for how long. Here's the story:
    - Replaced the N80 valve because the old one was leaking, very slowly, and the replacement is cheap. Couldn't find any other source of vacuum leakage. All the hoses are good. Ran it for a week. No difference. P0106 popping up and transmission going into limp mode almost every day.
    - Replaced the battery. It was 5 years old and getting weak. Then on Saturday morning it was dead and I had to jump the car. Went straight to the parts store. After the battery replacement I had two more instances of the transmission going into limp mode (maybe it was recalibrating?). Both cleared on an engine restart. Since then nothing. It's been running 3 weeks with no codes and no transmission problems. This seems odd since, once the car is running, voltage was normal, even with the old battery, but I'm not going to argue with sucess. Somebody on VW Vortex made a comment that VW's start throwing codes when the battery is old.
    Maybe it was a loose or corroded battery connection too?
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  12. #30
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    P0106 / Transmission Limp Mode Finally Fixed?

    I think maybe, just maybe, I finally have the answer on P0106 code and transmission going to limp mode - replace the throttle body. The details:

    After the battery change and N80 replacement (see 10.4.18 posting), the problem came back within 2 weeks. That left me out of options. I'd tried everything, except for the big one - a trip to the Mazda dealer because I'm fed up with this nonsense. Then, two days before Christmas, I'm headed down the freeway, in heavy traffic, and the car drops to idle. No response from the gas pedal. Several warning lights I've never seen before appear. Pull over to the shoulder, get a tow home. Plug in my VCDS and there's an error on the throttle body. I forget which. I ran the throttle body calibration and got the car operating again, but still with the persistent P0106 putting the transmission in limp mode. 3 weeks later it hits me: If the throttle body is reporting an incorrect throttle butterfly position, the engine controller might be comparing it to the manifold pressure reading and saying "implausible". Since the TB has now stranded me once I figure it needs replacing anyway (not an easy decision at $600+). I did that and ran the TB calibration. It's now 3 months later and my Rabbit has been running flawlessly. Not a single problem.

    None of the dozens of postings I looked at on the P0106 problem mentioned this as a possibility. Hopefully this will help others.

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