Key Activation Snafu

aroundi · Apr 9, 2016

Hello,

I am a motivated prospective VCDS-Lite customer.

I have a 2002 Audi A4 3.0 manual. It's now disabled. I lost my single flip key. I called a locksmith who got my Audi code and cut a new key. He could not program the key, said he was locked out or something like that. I found my key (stolen by cat and dropped in kid's toy box). The locksmith came back and tried again with both my key and his key. The Remote function programmed okay on my key but the immobilizer indicator flashes when the ignition is turned on (tried hold unlock and turn in door, hold unlock in ignition while turning on, disconnecting the battery for 4 hrs). The locksmith did give me the 4 digit PIN (not 7 digit? but can't offer any further expertise.

I have just set up VCDS-Lite with a CH340T cable and have successfully connected to the car. I ran a module scan; I aborted after the Instrument cluster was recognized. I want to run an immoblilizer / key match using my old key.

I'm hoping that registered VCDS-Lite won't end up with the same condition that the locksmith's tool(s) did, he was using a appliance type multi-auto manufacturer product, not VCDS.

- yes, the cat is still alive.

All comments, tips, and direction welcomed.

NZDubNurd · Apr 10, 2016

aroundi said:
- yes, the cat is still alive.

What about the locksmith???

Sorry - I'm no help, but someone may be able to help. Earlier today, somebody mentioned some locksmiths know what they're doing, and some don't. In theory, your original key should have been able to be matched back easily enough.

If you post up a full Autoscan, someone might see something helpful (like whether it's Immo 3 or 4 etc), though VCDS lite does have limited use.

Jetta 97 · Apr 10, 2016

If is 4 digit SKC good , this procedure shows how to adopt keys with VCDS.
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_IV_Key_Matching

Uwe · Apr 10, 2016

aroundi said:
All comments, tips, and direction welcomed.

Check that the 4-digit PIN the locksmith gave you is good by doing a Login to your instrument cluster with it. VCDS-Lite does not need to be registered for this.

Take a look at the Immo-3 Measuring blocks. VCDS-Lite also does not need to be registered for this.
http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/Immo3-measuring-blocks.html

Jetta said:
If is 4 digit SKC good , this procedure shows how to adopt keys with VCDS.
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_IV_Key_Matching

A 2002 Audi A4 is going to be Immo-3:
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_Key_Matching_(Cluster)

VCDS-Lite does need to be registered before you can complete this procedure.

-Uwe-

aroundi · Apr 10, 2016

Hello Uwe,

Thank you for the useful information. I Tried > 17-Instruments > Login-11: entered 0+4 digit PIN. I didn't see any errors but if I was logged into anything. Measuring Block 022 returned 0,1,1,2 which I think is correct. The locksmith mentioned he saw 2 keys matched (even after he would try to reset them).

To start the activation process I went to > Options: select correct COM port > Save > About, but no serial number? I tried multiple times. I'm running Win XP 32bit in VirtualBox host by Linux Mint 17.3 x64. Any ideas?

Thanks

Uwe · Apr 10, 2016

aroundi said:
Thank you for the useful information. I Tried > 17-Instruments > Login-11: entered 0+4 digit PIN. I didn't see any errors but if I was logged into anything.

Sounds like your PIN code is OK.

aroundi said:
Measuring Block 022 returned 0,1,1,2 which I think is correct.

Check MVB 023 as well.

aroundi said:
To start the activation process I went to > Options: select correct COM port > Save > About, but no serial number? I tried multiple times. I'm running Win XP 32bit in VirtualBox host by Linux Mint 17.3 x64. Any ideas?

You must query fault codes in at least one module to get a serial number. Also, please understand that Windows running in a VM is "not supported". That doesn't mean it won't work, but that it is a much less predictable/reproducible environment for us.

-Uwe-

aroundi · Apr 11, 2016

Hi Uwe,

I tried > 17-Instruments > Login-11: entered 0+4 digit PIN again after logging in I noticed near the top left of the window a small spinning bar that just kept spinning (I'm not sure if it was there before I logged in). Do you think my code is still good?

From the measuring blocks:
022: 0,1,1,2
023: 1,1,1,1 *the 4th 1 is unexpected; it's not listed in the doc description*
024: 0,0,0,0

Got my serial number after a fault query on the Instrument cluster (no faults). I'm ready to activate unless you think the spinning bar indicates that my code is bad.

Thank you for your help, especially as I am preregistered at the moment.

Uwe · Apr 11, 2016

Spinning bar continuing to spin after your login is A Good Thing. Of course it's not an iron-clad guarantee that the PIN code is valid, but most likely it is.

023.2: Was that with your key or the locksmith's? It should be possible to re-match your key, but if the key the locksmith provided has a locked transponder, I don't have high hopes for that.

023.4: I'm not sure what to make of that.

-Uwe-

aroundi · Apr 11, 2016

Hi Uwe,

The blocks output was from this morning with my (old, was working) key. The locksmith did not give me the key fob he made (nor did I pay him). I did end up with a cut blade only that works the door no transponder or remote of course (hmmm, not sure if I have tried starting the car it).

In any event, I've registered VCDS-Lite(Order #20186482). I'm waiting on jumper cables from Amazon today to ensure I have proper voltage. If I get the activation file today I should be able see if this is going to work.

Tx

aroundi · Apr 13, 2016

Hi Uwe,

Alas, it looks like I've ended up in the same position as the locksmith. After I registered I did an auto scan. Then tried Key adaptation when trying to change number of keys from 2 to 1 ERROR appears in the stored value field (same appears choosing an number of keys). I tried clearing faults in the modules where Control Module for Immobilizer 49-00 - No Communications was listed. I did this with another running car jumpered to the battery.

Is this something I can overcome with VCDS? All was well before the locksmith; could inserting a new key and/or maybe adjusting the steering wheel height have messed with the sensor or the connection?

As an afterthought, I don't think I cleared faults in the engine module

17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 008 - Implausible Signal

Is this worth trying?

Auto Scan

Code:

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.2
Tuesday, 12 April 2016, 08:25:57:21421




Chassis Type: 8E - Audi A4 B6
Scan: 01,02,03,08,09,0F,11,15,16,17,18,36,37,45,46,55,56,57,65,67,69,75,76,77
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine       Labels: 06C-909-559-ASN.LBL
   Controller: 8E0 909 559 D
   Component: 3.0L V6/5V      G   0003
   Coding: 0016711
   Shop #: WSC 63351
   VCID: 361FF676015F
8 Faults Found:
17550 -  Load Calculation Cross Check: Lower Limit Exceeded
            P1142 - 002 -  Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
17947 -  Clutch Pedal Switch (F36): Implausible Signal
            P1539 - 004 -  No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
17831 -  Secondary Air Injection System; Bank 1: Insufficient Flow
            P1423 - 002 -  Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
17819 -  Secondary Air Injection System; Bank 2: Insufficient Flow
            P1411 - 002 -  Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16805 -  Warm Up Catalyst; Bank 1: Efficiency Below Threshold
            P0421 - 001 -  Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
18107 -  Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Steering Wheel Electronics
            P1699 - 008 -  Implausible Signal - Intermittent
17978 -  Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
            P1570 - 008 -  Implausible Signal
18010 -  Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low
            P1602 - 002 -  Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes       Labels: 8E0-614-517.LBL
   Controller: 8E0 614 517 A
   Component: ABS/ESP allrad      1726
   Coding: 04495
   Shop #: WSC 06435
   VCID: 263F2636D1FF
1 Fault Found:
01826 -  Sensor for Steering Angle (G85); Supply Voltage Terminal 30
            35-00 -   -


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC       Labels: 8E0-820-043.LBL
   Controller: 8E0 820 043 G
   Component:   A4 Klimaautomat   0712
   Coding: 00000
   Shop #: WSC 63351
   VCID: 253D213AACF9
4 Faults Found:
01274 -  Air Flow Flap Positioning Motor (V71)
            41-10 -  Blocked or No Voltage - Intermittent
01592 -  Air Quality Sensor (G238)
            30-00 -  Open or Short to Plus
01206 -  Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time
            27-00 -  Implausible Signal
00474 -  Control Module for Immobilizer
            49-00 -  No Communications


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags       Labels: 8E0-959-655-84.LBL
   Controller: 8E0 959 655 A
   Component: Airbag 8.4E         3000
   Coding: 0010607
   Shop #: WSC 63351
   VCID: 351DF17A1C59
No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments       Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8E2.LBL
   Controller: 8E0 920 950 HX
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB8 D29
   Coding: 03200
   Shop #: WSC 00222
   VCID: 867FC6B6B13F
   WAULT68E52A121737     AUZ6Z0A0196118
1 Fault Found:
01304 -  Radio
            49-10 -  No Communications - Intermittent


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr       Labels: 8E0-959-760.LBL
   Controller: 8E0 959 760 
   Component: Sitzmemory R2 F     0202
   Coding: 00002
   Shop #: WSC 63351
   VCID: F195856AA8B1
2 Faults Found:
00474 -  Control Module for Immobilizer
            49-00 -  No Communications
01330 -  Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393)
            79-00 -  Please Check Fault Codes


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor       Labels: 8E0-951-177.LBL
   Controller: 8E0 951 177 
   Component: Innenraumueberw.   0504
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: EBA997028A9D
1 Fault Found:
01463 -  Alarm triggered by Sensor for anti-theft alarm System
            43-00 -  Closed


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.       Labels: 8E0-959-433-MAX.LBL
   Controller: 8E0 959 433 T
   Component: Komfortgerát T5B    0617
   Coding: 11788
   Shop #: WSC 63351
   VCID: 42F79AA65D97
17 Faults Found:
01134 -  Alarm Horn (H12)
            49-00 -  No Communications
01616 -  Signal Wire to Interior Monitor
            49-10 -  No Communications - Intermittent
01370 -  Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
            35-00 -   -
00962 -  Alarm via. Tilt Sensor
            35-00 -   -
01368 -  Alarm triggered by Luggage Compartment Switch
            35-00 -   -
01369 -  Alarm triggered by Hood Switch
            35-00 -   -
01374 -  Alarm triggered by Terminal 15
            35-00 -   -
01371 -  Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side
            35-00 -   -
01572 -  Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Passenger Side
            35-00 -   -
01574 -  Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Right Rear
            35-00 -   -
01573 -  Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Left Rear
            35-00 -   -
01030 -  Central Locking Key Switch; Driver Side; Lock
            27-10 -  Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01559 -  Drivers Door
            58-10 -  Can't Lock - Intermittent
01734 -  Potentiometer for Mirror Adj. Horizontal; Drivers Side
            37-10 -  Faulty - Intermittent
00932 -  Electric Window Motor; Drivers Side (V147)
            62-10 -  No or Incorrect Adjustment - Intermittent
01331 -  Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386)
            53-10 -  Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
01562 -  Right Rear Door
            59-10 -  Can't Unlock - Intermittent


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Xenon Range       Labels: 4Z7-907-357.LBL
   Controller: 4Z7 907 357 
   Component: dynamische LWR       D06
   Coding: 00060
   Shop #: WSC 63351
   VCID: 047B5CBE0703
No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio       Labels: 8E0-035-1xx-56.LBL
   Controller: 8E0 035 195 A
   Component: symphony II NP2    0008 
   Coding: 00201
   Shop #: WSC 00003
   VCID: 253D213AACF9
No fault code found.


End   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uwe · Apr 13, 2016

Hmm, I would clear fault codes in all the modules..

I see low voltage codes in a couple of modules. What kind of shape and state of charge is the battery in? Have you got a charger?

-Uwe-

aroundi · Apr 14, 2016

I cleared the fault codes in each module and retried adaptation with no joy. I'm still getting ERROR result after clicking Test. I'm going to try once again with another car running and jumpered to the battery, but I don't have much faith in being successful.

How much confidence can I have that the PIN i'm using is correct? Is there something in VCDS I can use to verify my PIN is good?

Should I try Immobilizer and/or ECU swapping procedures just using the same PIN for original and replacement? Are there risks?

Has anyone used KermaTDI Immobilizer Delete? are they reputable? Would this be a solution for my situation do you think?

I feel like I'm running out of options, any help is much appreciated.

Rgds

stevecrk · Apr 14, 2016

Something is at least interesting here.

Audi A4, RB8 dash, in a Modelyear 2002 car?

If I'm not mistaken, the RB8 dash is immo-4(not sure which version though), it has a crypted eeprom content, and you cannot use VCDS to learn keys. But these RB8 dashes started to appear from 2005, and onwards.

Normally, a 2002 A4 used to have RB4 dashboard, which is Immo-3, and normally you will be able to learn keys to them using VCDS, when you know the correct SKC.

aroundi · Apr 15, 2016

From searching, RB8 seems to be fairly common in 2002 A4s.

Using VCDS can I verify that the PIN I got from "some locksmith" is the correct PIN for my car? So far, I'm failing at key immo adaptation, could this be from a wrong PIN?

Should I try Immobilizer and/or ECU swapping procedures just using the same PIN for original and replacement? Are there risks? Ross-Tech documentation mentions "Immo 3 Audi vehicles typically use adaptation channels 060, 061 and 062 for the internal installation list since they do not have address 19-CAN Gateway. If in question, run a complete Adaptation Control Module Map with the old module installed."

Has anyone used KermaTDI Immobilizer Delete? are they reputable? Would this be a solution for my situation do you think? This looks to be the easiest with key matching likely not necessary.

Getting the answers to these 3 questions will help me a great deal in figuring out what I need to do next.

Many thanks.

summitradio · Apr 15, 2016

I had nearly the same thing happening with my key adaptation. Found out I had transposed 2 numbers on my pin code. Once I typed it in correctly (had to wait a while for the system to reset)
everything just worked! Hope you get it figured out.

aroundi · Apr 16, 2016

Hi summitradio,

Thanks for the good wishes. I've been searching all over for a solution and I'm thinking that turning the immo off may be the easiest and safest approach.. This should the need for any key matching. It looks like open source tools are available to do this myself, but from dumps and flashes with versions makes models years and half years and conflicting results and instructions, and warnings about bricking I'm not sure I'm up to it without some help and direction. So I'm thinking the KermaTDI Immobilizer Delete might be the route for me. But, even before doing that, I would like to get some feedback from the community here.

In my search efforts I did come across a post https://sites.google.com/site/imnuts/ which documents a method to verify the PIN with VCDS. I will try tomorrow, just the PIN verification that is; I do not want to use VAG Commander. This will hopefully answer one of my three questions.

Rgds

Uwe · Apr 16, 2016

aroundi said:
In my search efforts I did come across a post https://sites.google.com/site/imnuts/ which documents a method to verify the PIN with VCDS. I will try tomorrow, just the PIN verification that is

I do not think VCDS-Lite ever got the explicit "Control Module has accepted the Login!" message. The factory tools available back in the time when KW1281 was still current did not provide an explicit message of that sort either. It was always: Look for some sign of rejection. A control module will do one of two things with an invalid login: It will either explicitly reject it, in which case VCDS and VCDS-Lite will tell you it has done so, or it will drop the session entirely. Now unlike the factory tool, VCDS and VCDS-Lite will automatically re-initialize a dropped session. You can tell this is happening because the spinning wheel stops for 2-3 seconds. VCDS and VCDS-Lite will also keep track of whether you've done a login, and when a session is re-initialized, will warn you that the login has been lost with a blue message in the upper right hand corner of the screen.

-Uwe-

aroundi · Apr 17, 2016

Hi Uwe,

Logging in to module 01 returned the login accepted dialog.

Do you have any experience with KermaTDI Immobilizer Delete? They are mentioned at MyturboDeisel. This looks like it would solve my problem but I would like a more experienced viewpoint before I pull the trigger. Aside from a possible flashing immo light and the car would be less secure is there a downside? are there immo off alternatives?

I did see a cluster for sale at Tom's Auto Parts. It has a VIN listed. I'm not sure I could get a PIN though. Plus, the problem could be in the steering column. But it's cheaper than KermaTDI.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Rgds

Uwe · Apr 17, 2016

Then the PIN should be OK.

An Immo delete in the ECU will certainly allow the car to start and run, but you will have to put up with (or physically disable) the immo light in the cluster, and of course, you won't have an immo at all. How important retaining the immo in a car that old is depends on your location and circumstances.

-Uwe-

aroundi · Apr 18, 2016

Hi Uwe,

Can I use VCDS-Lite to program or reset the cluster to change the MVB CH23 to read 1,1,1,6?

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