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Thread: Testbench setup?

  1. #161
    Verified VCDS User
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    Need some help with CAN signal pairing between different generations...

    Current bench test setup:
    - 1K0 gateway (1K0907530C) from VW MK5. Obviously it has Convenience and Diagnostic CAN buses. Other ones doesn't matter now.
    - Parking aid ECU from Audi A6 C5. It has K2 line for diagnostics and Convenience CAN as shown in Elsa diagrams. A6 C5 facelift instrument cluster acts as "gateway" just like on newer cars. But because of instrument cluster is so bulky I'd like to wake up parking aid ECU with some real gateway which is many times smaller in size.

    I can connect gateway with VCDS, but parkings doesn't want to open a connection to K2.
    Parking aid ECU is ok, was tested in real A6 C5 car.
    Tried with parkings checked in installation list and unchecked. Didn't help either way.
    Wiring rechecked multiple times.

    Voltages on convenience CAN-H = (0.25V ... 0.32V changing) and CAN-L = (4.64V ... 4.75V changing) with parking ECU connected (don't have a scope for now, but analogue multimeter shows it).
    Voltages on convenience CAN-H = (2.53V) and CAN-L = (2.46V) with everything disconnected (except gateway itself).

    Isn't it possible?

  2. #162
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Val View Post
    Isn't it possible?
    I am skeptical that it is possible. C5 Audi uses almost certainly used older CAN protocols (TP1.6) vs. Mk5 (TP2.0).

    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  3. #163
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    Apr 2014
    Acton, Ontario, Canada
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    Great thread and thanks for all the help. I've been able to log onto the RNS510 and alter the settings. Awesome input from everyone. Thanks again.
    Thanks Brett

  4. #164
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    Jan 2016
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    Great thread guys. I have been tinkering with an Audi Q7 4M MIB2 (Nvidia - not newer qualcomm) bench setup. I too have struggled with the "virtual" T15 signal and the issue with this setup is you either need to have a CAN sniffer that can generate (TX) CAN messages (which I have) or have an appropriate J393 (BCM2) to generate the T15 message to wake-up the MIB2 which then wakes up the screen. The issue with the Q7 J393 is two fold. (1) Unless you get the CAN gateway from the car that the J393 was taken from, you get Component Protection activated. When CP is activated on this module it pretty much immobilisers the car - no T15 message. In a real car, you won't be able to start it. (2) All Q7s have Kessy (here in Oz anyway).. Hence, you need the key from the car and the antennas setup etc... very painful.

    With the J393 disconnected, and can get the screen to wake-up but then it goes off again using CAN messages I have captured from my car. I am wondering whether I am missing some other CAN messages or whether. I have the wiring incorrect. With the MIB2 high, you need a CAN connected screen and controller or the MIB2 will definitely reboot.

    Speaking with someone else, they have successfully got this same bench setup working with the Audi MIB2 stuff connected to a VW MQB CAN Gateway (5Q0907530M) which is also connected to the J393 from the same car (5Q0937086Q). I would obviously like to just send the appropriate CAN messages to get this working on the bench without J393 CP activated.

    For those interested, the Terminal Management characteristics on the Q7 4M are:

    1. Pressing the start / stop button E408 when term. 15 is "off"
    2. The signal of the pressed button E408 is transmitted to the central control unit for convenience system J393 via discrete lines.
    3. The key test is performed by J393 (correct key in interior /immobiliser) → steps 4, 5 and 6 are performed in parallel with key test.
    4. Release message from J393 to electrical steering column lock J764 → J764 released.
    5. J393 activates term. S and term. 15 (allowing short time delay between term. S and term. 15).
    6. Irrespective of the engine starting conditions, J393 generates the term. 50 signal (discrete line and CAN signal) for approx.200ms in order to the fill the start request memory in the ECU → When term. 15 is turned on, J623 decides whether the conditions for engine starting have been met (based on brake / clutch / driving position) and switches the term. 50 relay.

    If the start/stop button is pressed while the ignition is on, J393 decides on the basis of a bus signal from J623 whether an engine start request has been generated or not. If an engine start request has been generated, term. 50 (hardware and CAN signals) is output for approx. 200 ms. If no engine start request is generated, term. 15 is switched off if the switch-off conditions have been met.

    The selector lever position is evaluated by J623 (CAN message and hardware signal starter enable, P/N signal).

    Finally, does anyone know what effects CP has on a CAN gateway? As I mentioned before, on a Q7 4M, CP on the J393 pretty much immobilisers the car. CP on the instrument cluster removes DIS info, with MIB2, you get limited audio from the speakers.

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  6. #165
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    May 2014
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    spyder: G'day cobber!! I had pretty much the same problem on my MQB platform test-bench (but for different reasons). My first test-bench incarnation had a "forced" T15 solution whereby I used a single-pole, single-through hand switch to create the T15 bus voltage from the test-bench power supply- the problem that I created though was some weird incompatibility with some BCM (called J519 in the WD) functions depending on the position of the simulated ignition switch on my test bench. In frustration, I eventually wired an old single contact telephone relay that I found in my junk box to the BCM pin that controlled the Terminal 15 voltage supply relay (it's called J329 on the MQB WD) like this:

    Works like a charm on my test bench (but I only have 1 x BCM)

    I also have multiple CP errors on the test bench because I sourced the CAN Gateway, the Instrument module and the BCM from different cars. Since my test bench is mainly used for educational purpose (mine and a phalanx of local forum members), CP errors aren't an issue - albeit you are correct that CP on the hex17 module does impact the FIS (but not for Output tests -03)


    PS: isn't it comforting that DIN 72552 designation for switched voltage is half that of the designation for fixed "hard" voltage? I assume that if there was such a thing as a switched-earth that it would have the designation T15.5!!
    Last edited by DV52; 09-16-2019 at 08:55 AM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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