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Thread: Testbench setup?

  1. #131
    Verified VCDS User Zenerdiode's Avatar
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    Two thoughts/suggestions. I feel awful for asking this; but have you tried accessing the module directly? i.e. from the 'Select Control Module' form of VCDS?

    Secondly, in your tinkering, could you have inadvertently flipped a Coding/Adaptation value that has now awoken the requirement to have the doors unlocked? You may have to add some door modules to get that information onto the CAN bus.

    Have you tried your other diagnostic tools? Dumped any EEPROMS that you may have a backup that you can revert to?

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  3. #132
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    Address 09: Cent. Elect.
    Cannot be reached
    Unable to communicate with address 09. Are you sure the doors are unlocked?

    Yes, the BCM is registered on the installation list (note: no DTCs on the Gateway) and I've tried swapping the CAN high/low lines from a functioning module onto the the BCM with the same result. Other than the CAN comms problem, the BCM works OK - it correctly operates the simulated lighting board (see picture above) and the operation of the rotary light switch is unaffected - as is the simulated ignition key. Neither are the results of the autoscan affected by the volts from my power supply (amazingly, these modules seem to operate way down to about 7 Volts)

    No matter what I try, I can't seem to get the Gateway to talk to the BCM - can anyone suggest a possible fix (other than replace the module)?
    Ok, so... are you sure the doors are unlocked?

    Seriously. If I recall correctly, there's at least one other thread kicking around here where the OP couldn't communicate with a BCM he swapped in, while the rest of the car was disassembled, and he had to temporarily reconnect one of the door control modules and hit unlock to make it work. Symptoms were just like yours: BCM was doing its job just fine except for diagnostics. Any chance you accidentally shorted the user lock control pins on the door control module you have there, and the BCM heard that? Can you reverse it?
    Silence gives consent.

  4. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenerdiode View Post
    Two thoughts/suggestions. I feel awful for asking this; but have you tried accessing the module directly? i.e. from the 'Select Control Module' form of VCDS?

    Secondly, in your tinkering, could you have inadvertently flipped a Coding/Adaptation value that has now awoken the requirement to have the doors unlocked? You may have to add some door modules to get that information onto the CAN bus.

    Have you tried your other diagnostic tools? Dumped any EEPROMS that you may have a backup that you can revert to?
    Zener: Please don't apologize - I'll gladly accept ALL suggestions. Yes I did try direct access to the BCM with the same result, alas.

    Thanks for the second suggestion - yes (again) it's a possibility, but it's difficult to pursue this line of investigation because most of the locking stuff in this non-kessy set-up resides within the BCM, itself - to which there is no CAN access.

    Third suggestion - Yes, I did try that "other" diagnostic tool (the dongle that shall not be named). It gave me better access to parts of the BCM, but not deep enough access for changes to code-string, or adaptation channels (but at least it was able to read the code-string). I suspect the different response is because of the different operating mode of the dongle (I guess)

    Don
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

  5. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoung8607 View Post
    Ok, so... are you sure the doors are unlocked?

    Seriously. If I recall correctly, there's at least one other thread kicking around here where the OP couldn't communicate with a BCM he swapped in, while the rest of the car was disassembled, and he had to temporarily reconnect one of the door control modules and hit unlock to make it work. Symptoms were just like yours: BCM was doing its job just fine except for diagnostics. Any chance you accidentally shorted the user lock control pins on the door control module you have there, and the BCM heard that? Can you reverse it?
    jyoung: Good-point! I tried as best I could to convince the BCM that the doors were "virtually" unlocked. I even installed a simple switch onto the driver door module to simulate an open driver door. I know that the micro-switch works because opening/closing the switch is mimicked on the instrument panel - see below (sorry for the poor quality picture). This suggests (to me at least) that the CAN bus does acknowledge that the doors are not locked. My hope was that in receiving this door-open message, the Gateway module would recognize that the BCM is telling "porkies" - but alas no!!



    I also like your second suggestion - but it's difficult to believe that lock-control pins are implicated (I'm always wary of exposed pins on the modules when the test-bench is operating - so metal parts are avoided at all times!!).

    hmm... I'm not willing to admit defeat just yet - but can someone tell me what "KLine init Failed" means (top LHS of screen shot below). More importantly, does this message that is returned from the BCM when trying to connect to J533 provide any intelligence to my investigations?



    Don
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  7. #135
    Verified VCDS User Zenerdiode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    but can someone tell me what "KLine init Failed" means
    When VCDS tries to open a session with a control module at the Open Controller screen, it will first try to establish a connection over CAN; if it doesn’t get a response it will try the 5-baud initialisation on the K-Line. No response on K-Line will result in that message. Try opening a controller address that you definitely don’t have; and watch it go through the sequence in the top left.

    The dialogue springs up when it fails to connect to the selected controller. The additional bit about the door locks is added in 09 because that is a reason for non-comms in some of those modules.

    Interesting that your other dongle gets a bit further...

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  9. #136
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    Zener: Why?

    Don

    PS: thanks for the explanation - I suspect it doesn't help in my investigations alas!!

    However. as is my habit when learning something new , may I ask my normal, consequential question -please: why?

    While I suspect that the two protocols are not jointly exhaustive, are they not mutually exclusive in modern cars? Or, is the flip-over to kline when CAN comms is unsuccessful purely for cars that have both protocols (are there vehicles in the VAG fleet that have both standards - perhaps cars built at the time of introduction of CAN )?
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

  10. #137
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Sometimes the module speaks one or the other; sometimes it's willing to speak BOTH. CAN is obviously preferred.

    Sometimes the car has a mix of modules that can't all communicate the same way.

    Sometimes the car/chassis cannot be identified, like when the car is very sick, or the application is a test bench without a gateway or instrument cluster, so the ideal communications methods can't be predicted in advance.

    IIRC, when doing an Auto-Scan, and the chassis type has been identified, VCDS has some speed optimizations to skip K-line tries for modules that should have communicated by CAN but didn't. That is done using logic proprietary to Ross-Tech. When you try to open comms to a single module manually, I believe VCDS always tries everything.
    Silence gives consent.

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  12. #138
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    So just to back up slightly. lol. Awesome thread by the way. I would like to connect the RNS510 on the bench via vagcom to change the designation of Dynaudio to basic audio to check if the internal amp is functioning through speakers. Am I able to set the designation of the RNS510 via a Vagcom cable through a Can gateway to the RNS510. If so I'm guessing I'll need a 2011 and up Can gateway?

    Thanks for any suggestions.
    Thanks Brett

  13. #139
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1975 Kombi View Post
    So just to back up slightly. lol. Awesome thread by the way. I would like to connect the RNS510 on the bench via vagcom to change the designation of Dynaudio to basic audio to check if the internal amp is functioning through speakers. Am I able to set the designation of the RNS510 via a Vagcom cable through a Can gateway to the RNS510. If so I'm guessing I'll need a 2011 and up Can gateway?
    I think pretty much any 1K-type CAN gateway will talk to an RNS510 if it's all wired properly. Early ones would cause the car to have battery drain problems when an RNS510 was installed, but that's of no consequence on a test bench.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  14. #140
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    OK - more questions to the knowledgeable folk here to get the BCM on my test-bench to stop lying about the doors being locked (post #130 above);

    First question
    (and it's a particularly fundamental question - the answer to which I hope does not impinge on any VCDS commercial secrets): Other than operating as the "Fat-controller", what other must-have data does the CAN Gateway provide for successful communications with the VCDS cable. More specifically, I'm trying to understand why when I plug-in the CAN high/low lines from the OBD port on my test-bench directly into the CAN pins on any other control module (with volts connected, of course) - I can't get my HEX-NET to talk. I'm thinking that perhaps the Hex19 module adds/subtracts data from the message header on the other modules - but I'm guessing.

    Second Question: Assuming that direct CAN (wiring) connection is possible, what software switch settings should I use on VCDS to maximize the chance of success?

    As usual, any response is welcomed - and thanks muchly in advance,

    Don
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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