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Thread: 1.6TDI Engine Misfires and Stalls when Idle

  1. #1
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    Question 1.6TDI Engine Misfires and Stalls when Idle

    Hi All,

    I have a 2010 1.6TDI VW Golf Bluemotion, engine CAYC with 99K miles on the clock. I have had an issue with this car engine recently and hope someone can assist please.
    Until today, the car engine (when cold) started and then the idle revs fluctuated occasionally between 800-1200rpm until the engine has warmed up a little (2 minutes or so). Here's what I did today whilst investigating the issue...

    All the output tests were completed successfully in 01-Engine module with Passes where appropriate.

    I then went into Basic Settings and cycled through the various options and ran them.



    Unfortunately by doing this I have made the problem a whole lot worse. The car now starts, shoots up to 1200rpm, down to around 600rpm, up and down and often stalls at idle when cold before attempting a restart. Oh dear.

    No fault codes are present before or after my messing.

    I am wondering what I have done wrong and if there is any way to back-track on what I did. One of the things I clicked on was 'adapting injector minimum deviation quantity'. This just revved the engine constantly between approx 2000-3200rpm for 10 minutes or so before I gave up on this and went to the next option. Would I mess up settings for injection deviation by doing this? The measuring values show negligible deviations on all 4 cylinders but I am looking for anything right now before I go down the mechanical route

    My engine ECU software is up to date at version 9970. I have also checked with the dealer whether there are any outstanding workshop campaigns on my engine part number (03L 906 023 DQ) and VIN including TPI 23F7 and the dealer said that TPI doesn't affect my vehicle. This TPI addresses misfires and juddering at idle and I believe it involves changing the ECU which to me would cost plenty of $$$. Before I become committed to going down this route (and since the dealer says my VIN is not part of the recall), I am trying to figure out if it's something else I have done to make it worse...

    Any help would be great. Thanks.


    Code:
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
    VCDS Version: 12.12.2.0
    Data version: 20140212
    
    
    VIN: WVWZZZ1KZBWxxxxxx License Plate: 
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Chassis Type: 1K (7N0)
    Scan: 01 03 08 09 10 15 16 17 19 25 2E 42 44 46 52 56 61 62 72 77
             
    
    VIN: WVWZZZ1KZBWxxxxxx 
    
    01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
    03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
    04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
    08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
    09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
    10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
    15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
    16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
    17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
    19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
    25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
    2E-Media Player 3 -- Status: OK 0000
    42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
    44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
    46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
    52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
    56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
    61-Battery Regul. -- Status: OK 0000
    62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
    72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
    77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000
     
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine (J623-CAYC)       Labels: 03L-906-023-CAY.clb
       Part No SW: 03L 906 023 DQ    HW: 03L 906 023 A
       Component: 1,6l R4 CR td H23 9970
       Revision: --H23---    Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 00114034032501080000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM16TDI02103L906023DQ 003011
       ROD: EV_ECM16TDI02103L906023DQ.rod
       VCID: 78D9DB3DC3D22BDEA37-802D
    
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0000 0000
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels: 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
       Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AT    HW: 1K0 907 379 AT
       Component: ESP MK60EC1   H30 0105  
       Revision: 00H30001    
       Coding: 133B200D09230002C81004EA90200091310000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 84213FCD071AFF3E3FF-80D1
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC (J301)       Labels: 3C8-907-336.clb
       Part No SW: 3C8 907 336 AB    HW: 3C8 907 336 AB
       Component: Climatic      H14 0305  
       Revision: 00009001    
       Coding: 0000000003
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatic A01005
       ROD: EV_ClimaBasis_SE36.rod
       VCID: 6DF7FA69BC909E76401-8038
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels: 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
       Part No SW: 1K0 937 084 D    HW: 1K0 937 084 D
       Component: BCM PQ35  B   103 0615  
       Revision: 00103 AD    
       Coding: 48180A3A8823F1C040080080340000E443510088436D8160648087200041
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 2F4B20617E1C2C6632D-807A
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K2 955 119 F  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
       Component: Wischer 27051  21  0512 
       Coding: 009F95
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
       Component: RLS 040610 05  54  0403 
       Coding: 0330AD
    
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1K8 951 171 
       Component: DWA-Sensor 00  001 0104 
    
       Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1K8 951 605 A
       Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H11 9004 
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446)       Labels: 3C8-919-475.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 919 475 C    HW: 5K0 919 475 
       Component: PARKHILFE 8K  H07 0008  
       Revision: --------    Serial number: 12991009638098
       Coding: 100001
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 3645150581461DAE71B-8063
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels: 5K0-959-655.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 655 D    HW: 5K0 959 655 D
       Component: AirbagVW10    037 0606  
       Serial number: 003FKRA8NJXT  
       Coding: 00003133
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360 A01011
       ROD: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360.rod
       VCID: 3B530431B264C0C68E5-806E
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag; driver side: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354 
       Component: S.Sens.Fahr.V  H01 ---- 
       Serial number: 3572MSME32216253ZZZH
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag; passenger side: 
       Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354 
       Component: S.Sens.Beif.V  H01 ---- 
       Serial number: 3582MSME49596553ZZZ/
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag; rear driver side: 
       Component: S.Sens.Fahr.H  --- ---- 
       Serial number: 3512QSME3C306029ZZZQ
    
       Crash sensor for side airbag; rear passenger side: 
       Component: S.Sens.Beif.H  --- ---- 
       Serial number: 3522QSME3635614EZZZY
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels: 5K0-953-569.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 953 507 BC    HW: 5K0 953 549 E
       Component: Lenks.Modul   007 0080  
       Revision: --------    Serial number:  90440JF4000XU
       Coding: 1082140000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_SMLSNGKUDS A05001
       ROD: EV_SMLSNGKUDS_SE36.rod
       VCID: 72CDE915A5AE418E9D3-8027
    
       Multi Function Steering Wheel Control Module: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 3C8 959 537 D    HW: 3C8 959 537 D
       Component: E221__MFL-TK6  H06 0022 
       Serial number: 70000000000000012586
       Coding: E20000
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 920 971 A    HW: 5K0 920 971 A
       Component: KOMBI         H03 0406  
       Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 170B00
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04089
       ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW21.rod
       VCID: 2D773A697C105E76001-8078
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 7N0-907-530-V1.clb
       Part No SW: 7N0 907 530 A    HW: 1K0 907 951 
       Component: J533  Gateway   H25 0602  
       Revision:   H25       Serial number: 290510F2000109
       Coding: E9A07F0600061204000003
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 2E753D65B916256E39B-807B
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234 
       Component: IMMO          H03 0406  
       Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 000000
       Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03008
       ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_SE36.rod
       VCID: EAFD71750D7E094EA53-80BF
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 2E: Media Player 3 (J650)       Labels: 5N0-035-342.lbl
       Part No SW: 5N0 035 342 C    HW: 5N0 035 342 C
       Component: SG EXT.PLAYER H13 0111  
       Revision: A1001003    Serial number: 7668119412    
       Coding: 010000
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 277BC84156EC7426FAD-8072
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN3.lbl
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 701 B    HW: 5K0 959 701 B
       Component: Tuer-SG         009 2114  
       Coding: 0131764
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 314F2619A8283A96249-8064
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
       Part No: 1K0 909 144 J
       Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 69     3001  
       Revision: 00H17000    
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 314F2619A8283A96249-8064
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: 1K0-959-702-MAX3.lbl
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 702 C    HW: 5K0 959 702 C
       Component: Tuer-SG         009 2114  
       Coding: 0132020
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 33432C1152340886565-8066
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 56: Radio (J0503)       Labels: 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
       Part No SW: 3C8 035 195 A    HW: 3C8 035 195 A
       Component: Radio RCD510  040 0166  
       Revision: 00000001    Serial number: VWZ1Z3K6478048
       Coding: 0100040004
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: 2665C54551E66D2EC1B-8073
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 61: Battery Regul. (J840)       Labels: 1K0-907-534.clb
       Part No SW: 7N0 907 534     HW: 1K0 907 951 
       Component: Batt.regelung H25 0602  
       Serial number: 290510F2000109
       Coding: 030B185A
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       VCID: F1CF661928A8FA96E49-80A4
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 1K0 915 181 C    HW: 1K0 915 181 A
       Component: J367-BDM  H07 0125 
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN3.lbl
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 703 C    HW: 5K0 959 703 C
       Component: Tuer-SG         007 2101  
       Coding: 0131216
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 1012552
       VCID: 34412F0D573A0FBE4FF-8061
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels: 1K0-959-704-GEN3.lbl
       Part No SW: 5K0 959 704 C    HW: 5K0 959 704 C
       Component: Tuer-SG         007 2101  
       Coding: 0131216
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 1012552
       VCID: 354712095C4016B6781-8060
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 77: Telephone (J412)       Labels: 7P6-035-730.clb
       Part No SW: 7P6 035 730 B    HW: 7P6 035 730 B
       Component: TELEFON       H05 0440  
       Revision: 1B001001    Serial number: 00007668036283
       Coding: 0A01000000010101
       Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
       ASAM Dataset: UHVNA A01007
       ROD: UHVNA.rod
       VCID: 314F261960283A96249-8064
    
    No fault code found.
    
    End   ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by airbus; 05-22-2014 at 04:49 PM.

  2. #2
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Please verify fuel temp/coolant sensor operation and linear to cycle of warm up.
    Verify the MAF as well or opening or stuck EGR.
    Log the data.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    Please verify fuel temp/coolant sensor operation and linear to cycle of warm up.
    Verify the MAF as well or opening or stuck EGR.
    Log the data.
    Hi, I will do thanks.

    MAF & EGR Specified/Actual consistent, I will check up on fuel temp/coolant sensor. Can simply going into Basic settings mess things up...? I read that Min. Qty adaptation of injection valves (MFMA) must be done after successful adaptation of new ECU software version. Can this be done through VCDS for UDS protocol engines? Thanks.

  4. #4
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    It should I imagine....did you set the adp for the injector calibrations in new controller?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    It should I imagine....did you set the adp for the injector calibrations in new controller?
    Couldn't see a setting for that in VCDS? In the meantime, I have been to the dealer and paid for this to be done.

    Any noticeable changes since the alleged calibration. I had pinking upon acceleration before, I don't since this calibration was done. Is there any way I can check that the dealer has actually done this through VCDS? I think they have done something because of the less 'pinking'.

    Unfortunately, I now get the revs still fluctuating wildly when the revs are set to around 800-900rpm, they then fluctuate between 600 and 1200rpm constantly. It is more pronounced when the engine is cold. Nearly disappears when engine hot with very slight fluctuation.

    Coolant temperature whilst at operating spec is between 88-90C. Fuel temperature is 31C and Outside air temperature is 17C.

    Any advice would be great, thanks.

  6. #6
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    OK, a little but significant update. I took a few more logs and was looking some more through them. At above 1400rpm, the Injection amount deviation is 0.0002 mg/stroke on all 4 cylinders. At idle, this is what I am getting...



    Would anyone with access be able to find out what is the specification for deviation allowed on the 4 cylinders for my engine code CAYC, part number 03L 906 023 DQ ?

    This brings a whole new complexion to the issue, I am guessing there is a fault on injector 3, perhaps it's all coked up? Is there anything I can try in VCDS to help this? I am wondering whether injection calibration has been done correctly by the dealer and whether any software correction can be made by me. If not, then at least I know where this is heading...cylinder 3 injector clean up or replacement.

    Thanks.

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  8. #7
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Each injector has a calibration # on it.
    It should still be very close if not exact to what is on the injector in ADP channels to be observed since it was just performed.
    I will have a look at an 03L we have here and see if I see anything for deviations after inducing some issues.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    Each injector has a calibration # on it.
    It should still be very close if not exact to what is on the injector in ADP channels to be observed since it was just performed.
    I will have a look at an 03L we have here and see if I see anything for deviations after inducing some issues.
    Calibration number on each injector matches that for the each cylinder in adaptation. My concern is that there is another calibration done for minimum quantity that I am not familiar with, that the dealer may have completed incorrectly.

    If there is no other calibration that can be done other than checking the number on the injector matches that in adaptation, then I think I may have an injector problem.

    Any added information would be great... Thanks.

  10. #9
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Have you done the block 200 count down test?

    0x01-04-200 ON/Go Brake and gas pedal depressed.

  11. #10
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Since the ECU uses the UDS/ODX protocol, as evidenced by:
    ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM16TDI02103L906023DQ 003011
    ROD: EV_ECM16TDI02103L906023DQ.rod
    there are not going to be a Block 200 in the traditional sense. I expect the equivalent in this ECU would be Basic Settings -> Automatic test sequence.

    -Uwe-

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