03 GTI 1.8t rough idle (misfire). Multiple DTC's

DimeGuy · Jan 20, 2016

Hey guys.

I've got an issue that developed not long ago. my wife's '03 GTI 1.8T all of a sudden started to run rough (has a misfire). the Check Engine/EPC light is not on. But I did an auto-scan. here are the results...

I've looked for threads pertaining to similar issues before posting.

Thanks for any help you guys can offer.

Code:

Tuesday,22,December,2015,16:22:04:54350
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 8.1 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.3.0 (x64)
Data version: 20151216
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: 9BWDE61J834042657   License Plate: 
Mileage: 201650km-125299mi   Repair Order: Ann Marie



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
          76
 
VIN: 9BWDE61J834042657   Mileage: 201650km-125299miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-AWP.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 032 LP
   Component: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0005  
   Coding: 07500
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 77F3E30D55190A8640-5178
   9BWDE61J834042657     VWZ7Z0B5992535

18 Faults Found:
16621 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31) 
            P0237 - 35-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96) 
            P0106 - 35-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
16727 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) 
            P0343 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
16712 - Knock Sensor 1 (G61) 
            P0328 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
            P0300 - 35-10 -  - Intermittent
16686 - Cylinder 2 
            P0302 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
17633 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 1 (N30) 
            P1225 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17635 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 3 (N32) 
            P1227 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17636 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 4 (N33) 
            P1228 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17634 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 2 (N31) 
            P1226 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17833 - EVAP Purge Valve (N80) 
            P1425 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17955 - Boost Pressure Regulation Valve (N75) 
            P1547 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17525 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating Circuit: B1 S2 
            P1117 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17843 - Secondary Air Pump Relay (J299) 
            P1435 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17938 - Camshaft Timing Adjustment 
            P1530 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17829 - Secondary Air Injection Solenoid Valve (N112) 
            P1421 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17697 - Boost Pressure Control Valve (N249) 
            P1289 - 35-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
17522 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B1 S2 
            P1114 - 35-00 - Internal Resistance too High
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102  
   Coding: 0019970
   Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
   VCID: 3469140154EF219EA5-5178

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
   Component: 08 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0001  
   Coding: 12344
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 2753F34DC5395A0610-513C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 920 906 J
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V07  
   Coding: 07232
   Shop #: WSC 55390  
   VCID: 2F631B6DEDC90246D8-515A
   9BWDE61J834042657     VWZ7Z0B5992535

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 70E1D81130775DBE81-513C

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 8B Komfortgerát HLO 0003  
   Coding: 00064
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 3773230D1599CA8680-4B18

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 8B Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0002  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 8B Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0002  

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:31)--------------------------

Uwe · Jan 20, 2016

There may be other things going on here as well, but the very first thing I'd do is put a fuel pump relay in that car, then clear fault codes, drive it, and see what comes back.

Now I'm not normally an advocate of doing diagnostics by throwing parts at the problem, but a fuel pump relay isn't expensive, it's a common failure item, and when it starts failing, the ECU will set many of the fault codes in your list (particularly the "Short to GND" ones).

-Uwe-

Welder75 · Jan 20, 2016

Change your fuel filter, could be clogged.

But i think Uwe is on the right track too... fuel relay or fuel pump going.

if anything else

When is the last time you replaced timing belt?

also look for vacuum leak. disconnected/cracked line. (Spray carb cleaner around hoses, throttle body, injectors...see if idle changes.Don't do this with a hot engine....don't need to spray crazy lots either. Keep a fire extinguisher handy incase. )

Boost leak.

Also make sure your sparkplugs are tight. I had one sparkplug come loose and it caused misfires.

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 21, 2016

17522 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B1 S2
P1114 - 35-00 - Internal Resistance too High <<<<<<<<<<<< See this one?

The OXS sensors when taking a shit/short ........also a common brown out, will cause that FP relay to get hot. Cause verse effect!
If left untreated it wipes the ECU out entirely.

Part No: 06A 906 032 LP
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0005 <<<<<<<<<<<<< This!

You need a firmware update

If you like we have package deals on genuine sensors and firmware updates.

Please use the contact form.

DimeGuy · Jan 22, 2016

Thanks for the input guys. I had a hard/no start issue with my 02 VR6 GTI, and it had lots of codes like this. I replaced the fuel pump relay and viola! ...fixed. So the relay was the first thing I replaced on her car, but it made no difference and I thought it might be a MAF, so I tested it and it is good, too. That's when I did the autoscan. I also did a full service including the plugs and fuel filter at 104K miles (the day after we bought this car). The fuel pump is new also. The guage was not reading correctly and I diagnosed it to the fuel level sensor and replaced the pump and sender as one unit (at 108K and with a new gasket). The T-belt and all goodies were replaced just prior to us buying it at 102K (The Previous owner kept great service records and gave us the file). The brake booster vacuum hose does have some cracks in it at the check valve and where it connects to the booster, I did already buy another along with the rubber fuel lines that connect to the fuel rail (they are cracking) at the same time I bought the fuel pump relay. I just haven't installed the hoses yet. I was trying to diagnose this issue first. I didn't want to add too many variables into the mix and spin this way out of control.

I am not a fan of just throwing parts at it either, but was thinking that I might replace the over pressure sensor in the intercooler and see how that goes. I also have the service manual on CD so I printed the wiring diagram and am going to test the power and ground wires at the ECU and both the Boost sensor and cam sensor as they share power and grounds at the ECU. Any other suggestions?

Uwe · Jan 22, 2016

Jack, I think you might be confused about which car he's talking about.

-Uwe-

Uwe · Jan 22, 2016

Dimeguy: If you've already put a fuel pump relay in this 1.8T GTI, then the Auto-Scan is indicative of some other source of drop-out of +12V to all the actuators that have "Short to GND" codes.

-Uwe-

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 22, 2016

Well I do confuse things and am mentally challenged.........

I must apologize for my retardation.......

ivagp · Jan 22, 2016

check connections in fuse box above battery

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 22, 2016

Yes yes Bar's and also the ground lugs under the battery box to chassis.....

DimeGuy · Feb 5, 2016

Ok, Uwe, Jack & Bars... Update. so I cleared the codes and removed the battery then cleaned the grounds underneath. I found a factory MAP/Boost sensor for less than $65. So I bought it. I installed it and ran another auto-scan.

Here are the results:

Code:

Friday,05,February,2016,17:41:43:54350
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.3.0 (x64)
Data version: 20151216
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: 9BWDE61J834042657   License Plate: 
Mileage: 201650km-125299mi   Repair Order: after replace MAP & clean grounds



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
          76
 
VIN: 9BWDE61J834042657   Mileage: 201650km-125299miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-AWP.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 032 LP
   Component: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0005  
   Coding: 07500
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 77F3E30D55190A8640-515A
   9BWDE61J834042657     VWZ7Z0B5992535

1 Fault Found:
16727 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) 
            P0343 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102  
   Coding: 0019970
   Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
   VCID: 3469140154EF219EA5-5178

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
   Component: 08 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0001  
   Coding: 12344
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 2753F34DC5395A0610-513C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 920 906 J
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V07  
   Coding: 07232
   Shop #: WSC 55390  
   VCID: 2F631B6DEDC90246D8-513C
   9BWDE61J834042657     VWZ7Z0B5992535

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 70E1D81130775DBE81-513C

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 8B Komfortgerát HLO 0003  
   Coding: 00064
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 3773230D1599CA8680-4B18

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 8B Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0002  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 8B Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0002  

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:30)--------------------------

Only one code came back. I know stranger things have happened, but is it possible that they BOTH failed, or one took the other out (seeing that they are on the same power & ground)? I'm going to get a cam sensor from ECS, install it and clear the codes, then see how it runs and if any codes come back. Is there a possibility that the ECU may have caused the failures? (in my experience, I've never seen it happen, but know that it IS a remote possibility).

Again, thank you guys very much for your valued input! (I was a VW Tech from 1999-2000 and I'm very rusty with drivability on these vehicles)

Have a great weekend!

Welder75 · Feb 5, 2016

Welder75 said:
if anything else

When is the last time you replaced timing belt? .

1 Fault Found:
16727 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40)
P0343 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
Readiness: 0110 1101
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16727/P0343/000835

Check your timing first. It may just need tweeted. It may save you $800

Camshaft sensors Don't go faulty usually. And to replace it you need to strip Timing system apart. So you may as well do timing belt.. Tensioner and water pump if u do Sensor.

Nevermind That last part. My bad. Not a 2.0l. :facepalm:

vwtech · Feb 6, 2016

Was the timing belt ever done?
At 125k miles you need a Timing belt.
If belt was done. Was it done right?
Check the timing marks.
If belt has been done and marks are right.
Check wiring at cam sensor if good replace cam sensor.

Good Luck

Welder75 · Feb 6, 2016

he says the timing was done at 102k (i noticed that after) but yes was it done right!! did they do the slack adjuster and water pump too ?

after you replaced sensors did you run the engine after clearing codes then do a rescan?

Jack@European_Parts · Feb 6, 2016

STOP!........

Check G40 by removing and verifying the circuit and the actual sensor isn't damaged from rubbing the head shorting wires/terminals due to being installed wrong or broken/wear.

DimeGuy · Feb 6, 2016

welder, VWtech... yes, all was done by a reputable VW/Audi shop in the East Bay (Berkley, CA) before we bought it. I looked at the repair order for the t-belt job. It was done exactly how I would have done it as well. Timing is good, too.

Jack, VWtech, Yes, cam sensor and wiring condition was one of the first things I looked at. There are no rubbing witness marks and the wiring looks good.

Welder, I replaced the MAP/Boost pressure sensor only, removed the battery and tray. unbolted and cleaned the ground lugs and connectors. applied dielectric grease and reassembled. cleared trouble codes and lit it off for a few minutes. Then did another auto-scan. I posted those results (as the second scan) in my last post.

Jack@European_Parts · Feb 6, 2016

If G40, mechanical timing and MAP + wiring is all good than unfortunately an ECU issue ...............

Did you change the G40 yet and with a genuine part?

DimeGuy · Feb 22, 2016

Hi Jack.

Sorry, I've been busy. Yes I replaced G40 (Thankfully we have other vehicles for her to drive). Not with a Genuine unit, but from ECS Tuning. Cleared codes and ran the vehicle. I test drove it to see if anything would come back. but so far, no codes and no change in operation. I'm going to remove and read the spark plugs and check their resistance, in the morning to see what I get. I really hope this is not an ECU issue. It was fine one minute, and the next it ran rough like it is. She drove it to the store, parked it and when she started it to drive it home, it ran rough.

ivagp · Feb 22, 2016

when its running rough loosen the oil cap and leave it in its spot and report what it dose

DimeGuy · Feb 24, 2016

Bar, I loosened the cap and no change. But an interesting find. I don't know how I didn't check this before... but the ignition timing varies between 2-5 ATDC. Can Cam timing have slipped a tooth suddenly? I'm at a total loss at this moment. :banghead:

Wednesday,24,February,2016,17:02:50:54350
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.4.1 (x64)
Data version: 20160216
www.Ross-Tech.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 01: Engine (06A 906 032 LP)

17:00:43
720 /min Engine Speed
2.3 °ATDC Ignition Timing Angle
88.0°C Coolant Temperature
46.0°C Intake Air Temperature
0.0 km/h Vehicle Speed

03 GTI 1.8t rough idle (misfire). Multiple DTC's

Verified VCDS User

Benevolent Dictator

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Benevolent Dictator

Benevolent Dictator

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Verified VCDS User

Verified Coal Cracker

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Verified VCDS User

Verified VCDS User