Hex-Net - New User, iOS only - unable to connect with hotspot

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Hello,

I am a new user, this is my first post!
I have a 2005 Audi Allroad 2.7, and I am happy and excited to join the Hex-Net family.

I have received my Hex-Net, it looks fantastic. Thank you.
I connected my iPhone to the Hex-Net in AP mode, and I can login and make an Auto-Scan.

Now, I need help with the STA mode.

My iPhone is configured as a hotspot, and I can successfully connect my Mac to the iPhone hotspot. I have the VCDS-Mobile iOS App installed.
I configured the hotspot SSID/Password in the HEX-Net, and it seems to be able to change from AP to STA mode when I press the button, the LED changes color from amber to green.
But my iPhone does not increase its hotspot client count (in the blue banner), and the VCDS-Mobile App does not show the Hex-Net IP address, so I don't think it's really connected.

Because we live in an apartment, I am not able to use a "standard" WiFi network to connect both the Hex-Net and the iPhone, I need to be able to connect the Hex-Net to the iPhone Hotspot.

How can I debug this further?

Thanks, and Happy New Year!
 
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Uwe

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I haven't used iOS in many years, so I'm shooting from the hip: Have you verified that it allows more than one device to connect to its hotspot at a time?

Did you use the web interface in VCDS-Mobile to configure a profile for your phone's hotspot or did you use the HexNetConfig app on your Mac?

Some screen shots of the configuration might clues.

-Uwe-
 
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Shaun

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I would suggest trying to get this set up inside by your mac first, and then move it to the car once you're sure it is configured correctly. Using the HexNetConfig USB utility with your HEX-NET connected to your computer over USB you can check its wifi settings. This will tell you for sure if the HEX-NET is connecting to your hotspot or not.
 
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Hello!

I had been looking into this issue without much success, and then I put the Hex-Net in a drawer, frustrated. But yesterday night the "check engine light" came up, forcing me to do something. Here is a recap on the situation:

We live in California, and I received the Hex-Net for Christmas; I tried configuring the Hex-Net using the web interface on the device. After many failures, I removed the password on our home WiFi network, and I was finally able to connect the Hex-Net in STA mode. However, the connection was very flimsy. In our driveway I can connect to the WiFi using my iPad or Macbook, with a fairly strong signal, but the Hex-Net does see only a weak signal. That's a "receiver sensitivity" issue. I work in that field, and I know how difficult/lengthy/expensive it is to design a WiFi product. Antenna design is hard, and often times the drivers from the chipset manufacturer have shortcomings and bugs. Add the manufacturing variations, and it becomes a nightmare. I'd be happy to share my engineering experience with you on that topic. The bottomline is that it is very hard to make a WiFi product work enclosed inside a metal car, in a driveway, even 50 feet away from the router!

I was able to run some auto-scan tests, but I was not able to upload them (because the connection would drop?).

Then in early January we moved to Chicago to teach for the winter quarter, and we live in an apartment on campus. It's cold, very cold, making it harder to work on the car in the street. Here we don't have a WiFi, we fully rely on our cell phones. We both have iPhones (5c, 5s, 6) and we connect our computers and iPads to the iPhone hotspot. So, we have extensive experience with the Hotspot feature.

First, I was unable to configure the Hex-Net using the embedded web server. I tried configuring our Hotspot network, but run into bugs and instabilities. Finally I followed your advice (thanks!) and used my macbook to configure the Hex-Net network, through the USB and Java app. That worked, and I was able to connect the Hex-Net to my phone Hotspot. Once the connection is established, it is strong and stable, because of the proximity of the phone. However, in the last 2 months I have succeeded in connecting to the Hex-Net only 4 or 5 times. I would spend hours shivering in my car, trying to get the Hex-Net to connect, resetting it, etc.. After an hour of trial, the Hex-Net would finally connect.

My understanding: The iPhone Hotspot tries to save power, so the iPhone broadcast its beacons not too often, far less often than a regular WiFi router. Also, the iPhone Hotspot relies on Bluetooth to send more beacons. Bluetooth being low power, the iPhone can send frequent Bluetooth beacons, and infrequent WiFi beacons. That's why the Hotspot works best with another Apple product, which uses the Bluetooth beacons to help connect to the Hotspot.
Finally, the Hotspot feature seem to work better with the newer phones. When we upgraded our 5c to a 6, we got better connectivity to our computers.

How to make the Hex-Net work better? I think it should be placed into a "focused" mode, where it knows to expect an STA connection, and fully focus on connecting to it. At the moment, I think the Hex-Net is in "dual-mode" and still broadcast an AP signal, while searching for an STA in parallel. Also, I thing the Hex-Net is in constant "scan" mode, instead of being focused on connecting to a preferred WiFi. Also, because the Hex-Net is powered by the car, there is no need for power saving, and it should crank up the radio receiver and the update frequency, and essentially behave like a desktop computer trying connect to a WiFi network. I suspect you use a "mobile" device driver and an embedded Linux OS, which would make the Hex-Net behave like a battery powered device, and save power at the expense of WiFi connectivity.

Finally, you could add a Bluetooth chip to listen to the iPhone beacons. You wouldn't be able to connect with it, because you won't have an MFi chip, but you could detect the beacons and use them to help wi the eWiFi connection. However, that's a lot of money spent for a workaround, and the best option I believe is to use BLE.

The Hex-Net only needs a gateway, and the data streams are moderate, and WiFi is really impractical, so I think the best route is BLE. Low cost, easy to connect, background refresh, etc.. I feel that you chose a WiFi system because you did not want to go the MFi route, and BLE was too new when you designed the Hex-Net. But nowadays BLE is accessible and robust, and I believe it is a superior solution for the Hex-Net.

That was a long email; hopefully that's useful to you and others.
I will now fish my Hex-Net from the drawer and try it out another time.
 
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Uwe

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The HEX-NET uses an off-the-shelf WiFi module, with an integral antenna. This allows us to use the module manufacturer's regulatory certifications as opposed to having to apply and have testing done ourselves in every market. The volume isn't big enough for that.

The HEX-NET does not have an embedded Linux, nor does it use a mobile, power-saving driver.

We're not going to add Bluetooth to the HEX-NET to try to compensate for Apple's non-standard way of doing certain things.

Have you tried using the HEX-NET in AP mode? For most actual diagnostic purposes, you simply don't need cloud access.

-Uwe-
 
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Shaun

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Unless you need constant access to one of the cloud functions like coding (if so, is there a specific problem you are trying to address?) it seems that AP mode is probably the better solution for you. Also, to clarify:

the Hex-Net is in "dual-mode" and still broadcast an AP signal, while searching for an STA in parallel.

The HEX-NET has no such functionality. If you are trying to connect to an infrastructure network and the HEX-NET is broadcasting an AP signal, it means that it has fallen back to an AP mode rescue configuration because no infrastructure network could be connected to in range. It sounds like your router may be too far away from your vehicle to work the way you intend. You could try moving it closer, or use a secondary router or hotspot closer to your vehicle.

--Shaun
 
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Uwe,

Glad you're using a module, that's the way to go for small batches. The power saving mode can be set through the configuration of the module, between the module and your MCU. Now, a filesystem without Linux can be a lot of fun/debugging, right?

I would not suggest adding bluetooth in addition to WiFi, but I suggest you ditch WiFi and use exclusively BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy). The main application is to connect from the car to the phone/tablet, which are very close to each other. No need for WiFi for that. BLE is not restricted by Apple (unlike the old Bluetooth). Make the dongle a sensor and data collection device, and treat the data on the mobile device.

WiFi is great when you want to move a lot of data. Normal application is low data. The only case is updating the FW, which can be done via USB.

HEX-NET in AP works fine, always connect. But I can't send the log files.
 
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Shaun,

You're right, the device probably falls back into AP if it can't connect as STA.
AP mode works for scanning, but I can't send the log. I can see it on my phone and take a screenshot though ;-)

I only use my iPhone hotspot at the moment. I would think most people would not want to be tied to a stationary router, as you move the car while collecting data and be more flexible with a phone/tablet. Connecting to a router forces you to stay close to it.
 
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All, here is an update.

Good news, I had better luck using the Hex-Net yesterday. Maybe it's the new FW and Dataset? Or maybe the warmer weather?
Or rather, it's probably because I had my laptop with me in the car. The laptop connected to the iPhone Hotspot, there were hence more WiFi beacons for the Hex-Net to see, as the Hotspot was active.

I plugged the Hex-Net to the laptop via USB. At first, the Hex-Net would not connect, it would not see the Hotspot when using the HexNetConfig (empty Wifi networks list).
I reset the config, and tried again, and tried again. Once the Hex-Net was connected, it was solid. I unplugged it from the computer, plugged it in the OBD port, and it connected flawlessly to the hotspot.

I stopped and restarted it a few times, it worked solidly. Great!

--------------

Now for the bad news. Today I drove without my laptop, and tried to connect the Hex-Net. It connected only once, in about 1 hour of trials.

My theory is that the iPhone beacons are more frequent when the Hotspot is active or recently active, and that the Hex-Net only listens sporadically for those beacons, so it relies on "luck" to hear the beacons.
 
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Uwe

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I would not suggest adding bluetooth in addition to WiFi, but I suggest you ditch WiFi and use exclusively BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy).
That would be an entirely different product, not a HEX-NET.

HEX-NET in AP works fine, always connect. But I can't send the log files.
The HEX-NET has plenty of internal storage for logs.

My theory is that the iPhone beacons are more frequent when the Hotspot is active or recently active, and that the Hex-Net only listens sporadically for those beacons, so it relies on "luck" to hear the beacons.
Interesting theory. If correct, it sounds like Apple is once again doing their best to "encourage" people to use only their own products.

What iPhone and iOS are you using? We have one person left in the office who still uses an iPhone. He's never had any issues like the ones you're reporting, but I might ask the guys to fire up the Pineapple to see what they can see.

-Uwe-
 
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iPhone 5s, with the latest iOS 9.

True, I suggest a completely different product, with a different model: computation on the phone/tablet vs. web server on the Hex-Net.
I think that would be similar to your other products though, the ones that connect to a PC via USB. Replace the USB with BLE. But then of course you need mobile Apps, one for iOS and one for Android.

For example, we have an F250, with the infamous 6.0 diesel, which requires monitoring. I think the best monitoring systems combine a simple HW to collect data, and send the data to a smart phone/tablet. That way you can easily deploy new features, and you don't have to make the HW too complex. Check out the "DashBoss".

Another example is the "BlueDriver". Great product, but of course it does not have the features and capabilities of the Ross-Tech products. Now if you could combine the 2, you'll have the perfect product.

About the sporadic WiFi beacons: Apple probably does this to save power. Sending Bluetooth beacons is very low power. Apple products know to scan the Bluetooth constantly, and if they see a Hotspot beacon, then they actively look for the WiFi beacon. But you're right, the end effect is that it's much easier to connect an Apple product to another Apple product, than to connect a non-Apple one.

I can understand your frustration: as a manufacturer, you find it unfair; Apple has an unfair advantage because they have a preferential ecosystem. Many years ago I experienced it too, while developing an Airplay product. Very frustrating. But then I went and worked for Apple, and they convinced me otherwise ;-)
 
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Uwe

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Well, thank for your suggestions, but making products specifically for Apple's walled garden, or maintaining separate applications for iOS, Android, and whatever the next hot platform might be is not something we've got much interest in doing.

-Uwe-
 
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I have an iPhone 6S plus (iOS 9.2.1) that I have used several times as a hotspot to connect HEX-NET's in Infrastructure mode and have not experienced dropouts or connection issues. I'm on AT&T if that matters.
bJtTJtt.png

I noticed that if I leave the Hotspot part of the Settings screen of the phone, it doesn't look like it is discoverable but that may be because the phone switches to use wifi from a router rather than the LTE signal from the phone.
 
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I wished (and still wish) for bluetooth support, simply for the *already existing* app ecosystem which exists for the cheap bluetooth obd2 dongles.

In other words, I would like to be able to use hex-net (or similar product) that incorporates existing obd2 bluetooth protocols for 3rd party apps, while still providing specialized vcds (mobile and/or windows app) control.

For example;

I have been using android app "TORQUE" with a cheapo elm bluetooth obd2 dongle (scantool/elm327/etc) for years;

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&hl=en

Now I have hexnet and its wonder functionality, however with no bluetooth... no torque monitoring of vehicle.

Of course I can, and have switch back to cheapo bluetooth dongle, however for $$$$$ of hexnet sits wasted until needed for the more advanced functionality it provides.

Hope this helps make sense of why myself and others request bluetooth support... to have 1 single obd2 adapater that can work with both VCDS and 3rd party apps on IOS and android via BT.
 
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iPhone 5s, latest iOS 9.


True. I suggest a product very different from the Hex-Net, although quite similar to your other products. I suggest a simple HW device that interface with the car and collect data. Then all the processing and control would be done on the phone/tablet.
That's similar to your "wired" products, which use a PC. Replace the USB cable with a wireless BLE. Of course you would also need iOS and Android apps. That's a lot of work.

The advantages? Much simpler/cheaper HW, faster development cycles, easy upgrades, etc..

For example, take a look at the "BlueDriver". Great product, but of course it does not have the powerful features of the Ross-Tech products. They have a great HW, you have a great SW. Combine the 2 and you win.
Another example: we have an F250 with the infamous 6.0L diesel engine. Check out the "DashBoss" monitoring system. I think that's the best platform: minimal HW, all the heavy work is done in SW on the phone/tablet.
 
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This is getting a little off-topic but you know you can display gauges with VCDS-Mobile and the HEX-NET, right?

VHbzOdl.jpg


You can configure different numbers, sizes, and positions of gauges and you're not limited to items viewable in Generic OBD-2 since you can also display native VAG items. For instance, some newer cars don't report boost via Generic OBD-2.
 
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Hmmm, I wonder if I could re-purpose my old 3GS just for the gauges?
 
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Uwe

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Hmmm, I wonder if I could re-purpose my old 3GS just for the gauges?
Can't see why not. After all, who doesn't have an old phone or three around?
 
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Glad it works for you Andy. I wish I had the same luck.

For me, if I have my phone in hand, and I plug the Hex-Net in the car, it rarely connects to the phone hotspot. It might take 10 or 20 attempts (unplug, replug). Or more.

But if I have my laptop with me in the car, and I connect my laptop to my phone hotspot, then the Hex-Net connects and stays connected.

So obviously it's not a problem with my phone, because my laptop can connect to my phone within seconds.
 
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Can you connect your laptop and the HEX-NET to the phone's hotspot and then, while keeping the phone on the hotspot screen in settings, use the browser on the laptop to use VCDS-Mobile? Are you able to consistently connect in AP mode using either the laptop or the phone? When you are having trouble connecting the HN what are the LEDs doing?
 
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