TDI Convertion with no VAS errors does not want to start

   #21  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
sorry guys my apologies, seem to be very difficult to add pictures to this thread. I will start a tread in TDIForum and then add the pictures and write-up there.

Discovered the following after cranking the engine and not receiving any rpm readings.
Completely opened the harness.

The G28 sensor is connected via ws and br wire and not ws and ge as in the manuals. The black wire where is goes into the terminal for the ECM was very bad, lots of exposed wiring. Continuity problems in the wiring terminals 1 and 3. terminals 1 and 2 .004 ohms and not 1.0 to 1.2 range.
 
Last edited:
   #22  
Jack@European_Parts

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
WTF ......just strip it and rewire it PIN for PIN until done..as per WD.

Scotch locks and masking tape too?
 
   #23  
Uwe

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
49,249
Reaction score
33,798
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
pviljoen said:
seem to be very difficult to add pictures to this thread.
Click to expand...
Huh? Works pretty much the same as any other forum. See: How To Post Pictures. The only thing that might be different than SOME forums is that we don't allow your pictures to be "attached" to a post (i.e. hosted here).

-Uwe-
 
   #24  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
wiring
kKPB5b2.jpg

engine
gVJOb9f.jpg

engine pump side
uRangst.jpg

Front of vehicle
Es5WDwL.jpg
 
   #25  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
G28 complete. Continuity checks fine. Will test again tomorrow. all wires soldered correctly and test done up to ECM connections.
G149 tested and errors corrected. Will put everything together, connect the power and ECM up again and then tackle fuel flow tests.
 
Last edited:
   #26  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
Tested fuel to all injectors. 3 and 4 had bobbles the rest was fine. diesel at all injectors.
done adv log adding results
Code: 
Friday,04,December,2015,16:08:08:12240-VCID:15219CCE6FAE4696A8-4AE8,VCDS Version: Release 15.7.2 (x64),Data version: 20151124
038 906 012 H,ADVMB, 1.9l R4 EDC G000SG  3332,
,,G001,F0,G001,F1,G001,F2,G001,F3,G002,F1,G003,F1,G003,F2,G004,F1,G004,F2,G004,F3,G005,F1,G005,F2,

Marker,TIME,Group 1 - Field 0,TIME,Group 1 - Field 1,TIME,Group 1 - Field 2,TIME,Group 1 - Field 3,TIME,Group 2 - Field 1,TIME,Group 3 - Field 1,TIME,Group 3 - Field 2,TIME,Group 4 - Field 1,TIME,Group 4 - Field 2,TIME,Group 4 - Field 3,TIME,Group 5 - Field 1,TIME,Group 5 - Field 2,
,STAMP,Engine Speed - (G28),STAMP,Injection Quantity,STAMP,Mod. Piston - Disp. (G149),STAMP,Coolant - Temperature (G62),STAMP,Accel. Pedal Pos. - Sensor 1 (G79),STAMP,Air Mass - Specified,STAMP,Air Mass - Actual,STAMP,Start of injection -  Specified,STAMP,Start of injection -  Actual,STAMP,Cold Start Injector - Duty cycle,STAMP,Start Injection - Quantity,STAMP,Start Injection -  Actual,
,, /min,, mg/str,, V,,°C,, %,, mg/str,, mg/str,, °BTDC,, °BTDC,, %,, mg/str,, °BTDC,
,1.23,0,1.23,0.0,1.23,0.680,1.23,11.7,1.56,5.5,0.28,850.0,0.28,0.0,0.60,9.0,0.60,0.0,0.60,94.4,0.92,0.0,0.92,0.0,
,2.86,0,2.86,0.0,2.86,0.680,2.86,11.7,3.18,5.5,1.90,850.0,1.90,0.0,2.22,9.0,2.22,0.0,2.22,94.4,2.54,0.0,2.54,0.0,
,4.45,0,4.45,0.0,4.45,0.680,4.45,11.7,4.78,5.5,3.50,850.0,3.50,0.0,3.82,9.0,3.82,0.0,3.82,94.4,4.14,0.0,4.14,0.0,
,6.06,0,6.06,0.0,6.06,0.680,6.06,11.7,6.38,5.5,5.10,850.0,5.10,0.0,5.42,9.0,5.42,0.0,5.42,94.4,5.74,0.0,5.74,0.0,
,7.68,0,7.68,0.0,7.68,0.680,7.68,11.7,8.00,5.5,6.70,850.0,6.70,0.0,7.02,9.0,7.02,0.0,7.02,94.4,7.36,0.0,7.36,0.0,
,9.28,0,9.28,0.0,9.28,0.680,9.28,11.7,9.60,5.5,8.31,850.0,8.32,0.0,8.64,9.0,8.64,0.0,8.64,94.4,8.96,0.0,8.96,0.0,
,10.90,0,10.90,0.0,10.90,0.680,10.90,11.7,11.22,5.5,9.91,850.0,9.91,0.0,10.24,9.0,10.24,0.0,10.24,94.4,10.57,0.0,10.57,0.0,
,12.50,0,12.50,0.0,12.50,0.680,12.50,11.7,12.81,5.5,11.54,850.0,11.54,0.0,11.86,9.0,11.86,0.0,11.86,94.4,12.17,0.0,12.17,0.0,
,14.10,0,14.10,0.0,14.10,0.680,14.10,11.7,14.42,5.5,13.14,850.0,13.14,0.0,13.46,9.0,13.46,0.0,13.46,94.4,13.77,0.0,13.77,0.0,
,15.70,0,15.70,0.0,15.70,0.680,15.70,11.7,16.01,5.5,14.74,850.0,14.74,0.0,15.06,9.0,15.06,0.0,15.06,94.4,15.38,0.0,15.38,0.0,
,17.30,126,17.30,26.8,17.30,2.140,17.30,11.7,17.64,5.5,16.34,850.0,16.34,1275.0,16.65,9.0,16.65,0.0,16.65,48.2,16.98,24.2,16.98,0.0,
,18.96,168,18.96,33.4,18.96,2.300,18.96,11.7,19.27,5.5,17.98,850.0,17.98,0.0,18.30,9.0,18.30,0.0,18.30,48.2,18.64,27.6,18.64,0.0,
,20.56,105,20.56,35.4,20.56,2.280,20.56,11.7,20.88,5.5,19.60,850.0,19.60,75.0,19.92,9.0,19.92,0.0,19.92,48.2,20.24,36.4,20.24,0.0,
,22.15,0,22.15,0.0,22.15,0.660,22.15,11.7,22.50,5.5,21.20,850.0,21.20,0.0,21.51,9.0,21.51,0.0,21.51,94.4,21.84,0.0,21.84,0.0,
,23.79,0,23.79,0.0,23.79,0.680,23.79,11.7,24.12,5.5,22.82,850.0,22.82,0.0,23.13,9.0,23.13,0.0,23.13,94.4,23.46,0.0,23.46,0.0,
,25.41,126,25.41,48.8,25.41,2.540,25.41,11.7,25.74,5.5,24.44,850.0,24.44,0.0,24.77,9.0,24.77,0.0,24.77,48.2,25.10,50.0,25.10,0.0,
,27.01,147,27.01,24.6,27.01,2.120,27.01,11.7,27.34,5.5,26.05,850.0,26.05,0.0,26.37,9.0,26.37,0.0,26.38,2.8,26.70,15.2,26.70,0.0,
,28.62,147,28.62,28.6,28.62,2.180,28.62,11.7,28.94,5.5,27.65,850.0,27.65,5.0,27.98,9.0,27.98,0.0,27.98,48.2,28.29,26.6,28.29,0.0,
,30.21,147,30.21,34.6,30.21,2.300,30.21,11.7,30.54,5.5,29.25,850.0,29.25,75.0,29.58,9.0,29.58,0.0,29.58,48.2,29.89,33.8,29.89,0.0,
,31.83,0,31.83,0.0,31.84,0.680,31.84,11.7,32.16,5.5,30.86,850.0,30.86,90.0,31.18,9.0,31.18,0.0,31.18,48.2,31.50,38.2,31.50,0.0,
,33.46,0,33.46,0.0,33.46,0.680,33.46,11.7,33.77,5.5,32.48,850.0,32.48,0.0,32.80,9.0,32.80,0.0,32.80,94.4,33.14,0.0,33.14,0.0,
,35.06,0,35.06,0.0,35.06,0.680,35.06,11.7,35.38,5.5,34.10,850.0,34.10,0.0,34.42,9.0,34.42,0.0,34.42,94.4,34.74,0.0,34.74,0.0,
,36.68,0,36.68,0.0,36.68,0.680,36.68,11.7,36.99,5.5,35.69,850.0,35.69,0.0,36.01,9.0,36.01,0.0,36.01,94.4,36.36,0.0,36.36,0.0,
,38.28,0,38.28,0.0,38.28,0.680,38.28,11.7,38.60,5.5,37.31,850.0,37.31,0.0,37.64,9.0,37.64,0.0,37.64,94.4,37.95,0.0,37.95,0.0,
,39.90,0,39.90,0.0,39.90,0.680,39.90,11.7,40.21,5.5,38.92,850.0,38.92,0.0,39.23,9.0,39.23,0.0,39.23,94.4,39.55,0.0,39.55,0.0,
,41.49,0,41.49,0.0,41.49,0.680,41.49,11.7,41.81,5.5,40.54,850.0,40.54,0.0,40.86,9.0,40.86,0.0,40.86,94.4,41.18,0.0,41.18,0.0,
,43.10,0,43.10,0.0,43.10,0.680,43.10,11.7,43.41,5.5,42.14,850.0,42.14,0.0,42.45,9.0,42.45,0.0,42.45,94.4,42.78,0.0,42.78,0.0,
,44.70,0,44.70,0.0,44.70,0.680,44.70,11.7,45.02,5.5,43.73,850.0,43.73,0.0,44.05,9.0,44.05,0.0,44.05,94.4,44.38,0.0,44.38,0.0,
1,46.31,0,46.31,0.0,46.31,0.680,46.31,11.7,46.63,5.5,45.36,850.0,45.36,0.0,45.67,9.0,45.67,0.0,45.67,94.4,46.00,0.0,46.00,0.0,
,47.92,0,47.92,0.0,47.92,0.680,47.92,11.7,48.24,5.5,46.95,850.0,46.95,0.0,47.27,9.0,47.27,0.0,47.27,94.4,47.60,0.0,47.60,0.0,
,49.51,0,49.51,0.0,49.51,0.680,49.51,11.7,49.84,5.5,48.56,850.0,48.56,0.0,48.88,9.0,48.88,0.0,48.88,94.4,49.20,0.0,49.20,0.0,
,51.13,0,51.13,0.0,51.13,0.680,51.13,11.7,51.45,5.5,50.16,850.0,50.16,0.0,50.50,9.0,50.50,0.0,50.50,94.4,50.81,0.0,50.81,0.0,
 
Last edited by a moderator:
   #27  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
will work on adv and retard of fuel pump.
 
   #29  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
Yes that will be the next step. I still do not get any engine speed in VCDS. it shows 0 even though the wiring and the G28 sensors checks out 100%. It did discover that the the two wires coming from the sensor is switched around in their respective pinouts positions. will change them to see if engine speed is then reported.
 
   #30  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
No start yet.
Completed the following.
Set up the engine according the timing belt replacement doc.
that turned engine until both lobs of piston one in the top position.
Locked the cam with the cam tool.
removed timing belt.
rotated the pump pulley until it could be locked with the tool. It had to go three teeth anti clock wise to fit the tool solid.
used the straw method to check piston height.
replaced timing belt with both lock tools in place.
turned the engine 1 over to make sure everything rotates

Engine now cranks faster than before. but still no joy,

Y9xpSZY.jpg
 
   #31  
Jack@European_Parts

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Cant use a straw buddy ......crank to cam and pump are critical and if off &..... pardon my French " a few cunt hairs " will not be a good time.

The pump can be compensated............ I would move full deviations in each direction and try again........ if trying to Ball Park Frank "pickle" park this.
 
   #32  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
After reading some of the threads, I think I fell for the sucker hole on the IP. will check it again tomorrow.
 
   #33  
I

ivagp

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
702
Reaction score
285
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=95551
do u have rpms yet
 
   #34  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
It is only called the straw method. Did not use a straw though. :D Use a metered rod with markings on the side. Also used that to ensure I have the piston ontop since I do not have markings on the flywheel. I forgot about the markings on the balancer. Will also verify that. Stole it out of a tire gauge. Thanks for your advice though. much appreciated.
 
   #35  
Jack@European_Parts

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
FYI......... G28 RPM is not relevant in the EDC 15 for actual initial starting on the ALH........the fuel shut off noid handles this.

It does assist with commencement position to advance timing for cold start though based on FT, IAT, and CT.

Lets do some mechanical basics to " KNOW "!

One.....Is the flap in the intake... " open when cranking " that is in front of the EGR valve, and is it wired correctly or vacuum proper routing?

Two......... If you spray a small amount of starting fluid or flammable spray, does the engine try to run and die regardless of ECU or pump conditions?
 
   #36  
I

ivagp

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
702
Reaction score
285
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=95551
from my experience it will not start with out g28
 
   #37  
Jack@European_Parts

Jack@European_Parts

Gone But Not Forgotten
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
21,923
Reaction score
9,308
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
As long as fuel is present with timed compression and air is able to enter the intake......... it will run on.

If he is getting fuel out of lines then either something is on or the pump QTY adjuster is advanced enough to allow fuel flow.

Additional FACT........... If the QTY adjuster is allowing fuel from being to far forward, it will produce fuel right passed the fuel shut off noid; and done by means of HPP internal PSI created by cranking, and the engine will run. In some cases run away if the flap on intake is inactive allowing air flow.
 
   #38  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
Yes fixed the wiring and now it shpws rpm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
   #39  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
It is alive, thanks it started. what a sweet smell of diesel on a cold morning.
Things I have learned.
1. Get an Allen wrench with a ball on the long end. It makes removing the cover so much easier.
2. A hair does make a difference :D. In my case two hairs and two fingers. Double check the markings on the balancer before and after you have set the camshaft and lock the pump. The balancer will move if you replace the belt so put the mark to the right side of the marking on the cover plate. 3 attempts taught me this.
3.If the IP lock goes ion easy, you are doing it wrong. It needs a wrench to help you as it will fit very tight. Use the square block on the IP as your reference as it should be with the boundaries of that square block.

Now the bad part. The engine does not respond to the pedal even thought VCDS shows the pedal moving and numbers go up. Limp Mode????
 
   #40  
P

pviljoen

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
67
Reaction score
17
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=261547
Th timing Graph complains about "Engine not at Idle". The pedal is at 5.5%. Timing set to 32760 but no effect on the engine. still runs at same speed.

The IP is set to full retart but still get the yellow line above maximium, in fact. Is this a symptom of the dreaded 180 deg or just plain stupidity.
RoeykvY.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top