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Thread: Laggy response when releasing throttle 2.0T CCZ engine

  1. #11
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minke View Post
    Uwe - have you had any thoughts on what this could possibly be?
    Unfortunately, I do not.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  2. #12
    Verified VCDS User Zenerdiode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minke View Post
    can I clear out all the 'learning' the car has done and return it as if it is factory fresh
    Even though there aren't any, try clearing faults from the 01-ECU.

  3. #13
    VCDS Distributor AIB Wolfgang's Avatar
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    Hello
    Tricky situation!
    I would look for
    Load Status,,Range: Idle/Partial Throttle/Wide Open Throttle (WOT)/Enrichment/Deceleration !
    Throttle Valve Angle,,Range: 0.0...100.0 % and the conditions for basic settings as Throttle Valve closed and Idle Switch closed while lift the throttle pedal
    -Wolfgang

    Drive more talk less

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  5. #14
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    Thanks for the ideas. Not being a guru with this application yet, I'm struggling to find which M Block value to monitor idle switch?

    Also - what M-Block would show the application of the brake pedal? The reason is I want to be able to demonstrate that the car still have laggy throttle when I'm applying the brakes. This would be a safety issue as the car is propelling itself while I'm off the throttle and on the brakes.

    cheers

  6. #15
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    I've had a different thoughts. I need the manufacturer to take me seriously on this. The one way I think I can do that is show them that the car is 'supplying fuel' to the engine after I have lifted off the throttle and that I am now on the brake. That why I can go to VW and say "The car is propelling itself even though I'm on the brake. This is a safety issue"

    So I think I need to capture the following data:
    Lambda (prove fuel is being consumed)
    Throttle pedal sensor (prove it is closed)
    Throttle valve (prove it is closed)
    fuel injectors (prove it is supplying fuel)
    brake sensor (that I'm actively pressing the brakes)

    Does that make sense? if so how do I achieve that using VCDS. What m BLocks best to capture etc..

    Thank you for any and all help.

    ps I reset the 01-ECU - no change

  7. #16
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Pedal and throttle position sensors and lambda, you already know how/where to log.

    Brake: Look in MVB 008.1 or at the bits in MVB 066.

    Injector pulse length: MVB 002.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  8. #17
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    Thanks Uwe. I wasn't able to get 008.1 (not accepted when entering that value in the M Blocks field. However I did measure the following
    002 Injector
    062 Throttle pedal position and valve
    066 brake pedal

    From what I can see below this is what I read:
    At time stamp 37.74 the throttle pedal is closed, the brakes are off and the injectors are pulsing 0.77ms
    at time stamp 38.33 the throttle is still closed. The brakes have been applied. The injectors are still pulsing at 0.77ms
    at time stamp 40.22 the throttle is still closed. THe brakes are still on. The injectors finally stop deliverying fuel.

    I read that as for 2.5 seconds after throttle closed - injectors are still supplying fuel regardless if the brakes are applied or not.

    The reason I wanted to do this test and get this data was the dealer said that it was 'torque vectoring' and that is normal behaviour. I don't think any manufacturer would want their car to continue providing fuel to the engine while the driver is on the brake. It would mean longer stopping distance and thus a safety concern.

    Where to from here? I'd really like to know if there is a way to wipe all the adaptive learned the car has done over the last 40,000km. ? In the hope that it would help.


    Code:
    Friday,30,October,2015,11:20:12:06238-VCID:354FD7135C592896BE-8060,VCDS Version: Release 15.7.1 (x64),Data version: 20150904,,,,,,,,,
    5K0 907 115 N,,2.0l R4/4V TFSI     0010,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    ,Group A:,'062,,,,Group B:,'066,,,,Group C:,'002,,,
    ,,Throttle Valve,Throttle Valve,Accel. Pedal Pos.,Accel. Pedal Pos.,,Vehicle Speed,Switch Positions I,Vehicle Speed,Switch Positions II,,Engine Speed,Engine Load,Injection Timing,Mass Air Flow
    ,TIME,Sensor 1 (G187),Sensor 2 (G188),Sensor 1 (G79),Sensor 2 (G185),TIME,(current),,(specified),,TIME,(G28),,,Sensor (G70)
    Marker,STAMP, %, %, %, %,STAMP, km/h,, km/h,,STAMP, /min, %, ms, g/s
    ,36.42,16.4,83.2,28.9,14.5,36.58,56,1000,0,0,36.72,2760,19.5,1.02,10.86
    ,36.86,16,83.2,28.9,14.5,37,56,1000,0,0,37.16,2760,18,1.02,9.97
    1,37.3,16,83.6,28.9,14.5,37.44,56,1000,0,0,37.58,2720,17.3,1.02,9.14
    ,37.74,15.6,84,14.8,7.4,37.89,55,1000,0,0,38.03,2720,15.8,0.77,9.36
    ,38.17,15.6,84,14.8,7.4,38.33,55,1011,0,0,38.47,2680,15.8,0.77,9.44
    ,38.61,15.6,84,14.8,7.4,38.75,53,1011,0,0,38.91,2560,15.8,0.77,8.92
    ,39.05,15.6,84,14.8,7.4,39.19,51,1011,0,0,39.33,2480,15.8,0.77,8.53
    ,39.49,15.2,84.4,14.8,7.4,39.64,49,1011,0,0,39.78,2400,15.8,0.77,8.36
    ,39.92,15.2,84.4,14.8,7.4,40.08,48,1011,0,0,40.22,2280,15.8,0,7.75
    ,40.36,14.8,84.8,14.8,7.4,40.5,46,1011,0,0,40.66,2200,15.8,0,7.47
    2,40.81,14.8,84.8,14.8,7.4,40.95,44,1011,0,0,41.09,2080,15,0,7.06
    ,41.25,14.5,85.2,14.8,7.4,41.39,42,1000,0,0,41.53,2040,15,0,6.78
    ,41.67,14.5,84.8,30.1,15.2,41.83,41,1000,0,0,41.97,2040,26.3,1.53,12.61
    ,42.11,21.9,77.7,46.1,23,42.25,41,1000,0,0,42.41,2080,68.4,2.81,33.56

  9. #18
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    Hi - Thought I'd post a message.

    My car is off to the dealer service department on Thursday. Any suggests? I have provided the information and plan to take a tech for a drive with the laptop/VCDS and show them the injectors fueling whilst the throttle is closed.

    One question - are the register numbers the same for the factory computers monitor? ie if I talk about 62, 66, 02 they'll (or they should?) know what I'm referring to?

    I am just wanting to minimise the risk of "Oh that VCDS isn't accurate. or that VCDS is compeltely wrong' Not saying it is - just want to be prepared for the "this is too hard, lets blame something else"

  10. #19
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Yes, they can look at the same data in the same group numbers -- assuming of course that they are not complete n00bs who only know how to do "guided" stuff with their tools.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Yes, they can look at the same data in the same group numbers -- assuming of course that they are not complete n00bs who only know how to do "guided" stuff with their tools.

    -Uwe-
    Thanks

    The tech didn't know the group numbers but knew the G references. They agree that it isn't right but their only solution is to start swapping out parts (ECU, sensors etc...) to chase it down.

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