Cheaters? Recalls? Discuss

vreihen · Jan 6, 2018

Uwe said:
Not having 10% ethanol in their gasoline?

Iowa corn farmers gotta eat, you know. :rolleyes:

Besides, you can easily scrub the 10% ethanol dilution out of USA pump gas using DIY techniques.

Would you rather have more MTBE in the water table due to stupid gob'ment regulations and kickbacks?????

Uwe · Jan 6, 2018

vreihen said:
Iowa corn farmers gotta eat, you know.

Let 'em eat corn!

vreihen said:
Besides, you can easily scrub the 10% ethanol dilution out of USA pump gas using DIY techniques.

Linky?

vreihen said:
Would you rather have more MTBE in the water table due to stupid gob'ment regulations and kickbacks?????

Yes, actually, I would. First off, it was a far better fuel additive than ethanol. Second and more important, MTBE imparts a very noticeable taste and smell on water at very low concentrations (much lower than where it would be hazardous) and it precedes the more hazardous (and more difficult to detect) constituents of gasoline such as in the underground "plume" such as benzene and toluene due to its higher solubility in water. Thus it actually acts as a relatively harmless "alarm signal" for leaky tanks and other spills (much like mercaptan does for natural gas leaks), and we no longer have that since it has been replaced with ethanol.

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 6, 2018

Yes, actually, I would. First off, it was a far better fuel additive than ethanol. Second and more important, MTBE imparts a very noticeable taste and smell on water at very low concentrations (much lower than where it would be hazardous) and it precedes the more hazardous (and more difficult to detect) constituents of gasoline such as in the underground "plume" such as benzene and toluene due to its higher solubility in water. Thus it actually acts as a relatively harmless "alarm signal" for leaky tanks and other spills (much like mercaptan does for natural gas leaks), and we no longer have that since it has been replaced with ethanol.

Dam corn whiskey!
Is it a nutty flavor or like an oak barrel chardonnay?

vreihen · Jan 6, 2018

Uwe said:
Linky?

Ethanol is hygroscopic, and is more dense than gasoline when combined with water. Add some water to E10 or E15, shake well, let it sit for a little while, drain it from the fuel sample port on the bottom of the wing during pre-flight until clean gasoline comes out.

What do you do with the waste? Vodka is 60% water and 40% ethanol. Put it into plastic-lined cardboard boxes (like cheap Cardbordeux

wine) and sell it to the Russians.....

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 6, 2018

I vaguely recall windshield washer vodka in bulk....

vreihen · Jan 6, 2018

Jack@European_Parts said:
I vaguely recall windshield washer vodka in bulk....

https://www.safeproof.org/Windshield-Washer-Fluid-Vodka/

You, sir, have solved the waste problem! Throw in some blue or yellow dye and use it as a never-ending supply of washer fluid! I can't be the only person who hesitates to squeeze the washers because I'm too cheap to buy washer fluid. If I was running a gas-fueled car, I'd be spraying the washers constantly until the pump burned up.....

PetrolDave · Jan 7, 2018

Jack@European_Parts said:
Well now you know because those are failing too...........

After how many miles? 200K plus???

When I first owned a car taking the head off every 10K miles to do a full de-coke was normal, so let's not forget how far engine design has moved forward.

Blazs_A4ABC · Jan 7, 2018

Please do not forget that I live in Eastern Europe, where consumer awareness is non existent and business culture is much more "PVP". Here, after buying a new car, you are no longer a customer but a nobody and the warranty is an obligation rather than a service.
Buying a used car is a gamble of course, but VAG, instead of trying to queue in new customers for the future, gets revenge by making the sustainment of such cars as hard and expensive as possible. For instance, they are acting like you have no option for a 15k oil change. Most people can be intimidated this way and it will look like that you are a dumbf*ck and they are saving you from extra, unnecessary costs.

Looking at my example, I bought the 1.8TSI from a Skoda dealership, owned by a third person. The Skoda dealership was requested to do a pre-purchase inspection, with a focus on the TSI engine. Each and every testing point was tested OK, the dealer said 'immaculate'.
After I've realized that the car consumed 1 liter of oil per 500kms, I hit a dead end with the actual seller (will be going to court soon). So I wrote my complaint to the Skoda dealership (could have been any VAG dealership) about their inferior work, they didn't even bother. Another VW dealership explained that they just don't test the engine for compression to prevent debates who will pay if parts removed are damaged during removal or refitting. So basically they have admitted that their inspection is ineffective on T(F)SI engines, although most of their cars sold are now T(F)SI. The car had no previous record of high oil consumption. But the VW dealership will happily offer an 5000 USD rebuild, in a 10k car which according to EUROTAX rating, worth around 9500 USD which assumes used but sustainable condition. They are much more client-centric but still, they act like I was at fault (again, they are the good guy helping me out). The Skoda dealership can't be held liable for consequenses of their poor work. Dunno how this goes in the US, but I think this is outrageous.

So something that is only kept alive by its warranty (as it will fail shortly after warranty expires) is not something one would associate with quality, reliability, or fairness.

PetrolDave · Jan 7, 2018

Blazs_A4ABC said:
Looking at my example, I bought the 1.8TSI from a Skoda dealership, owned by a third person. The Skoda dealership was requested to do a pre-purchase inspection, with a focus on the TSI engine. Each and every testing point was tested OK, the dealer said 'immaculate'.
After I've realized that the car consumed 1 liter of oil per 500kms, I hit a dead end with the actual seller (will be going to court soon). So I wrote my complaint to the Skoda dealership (could have been any VAG dealership) about their inferior work, they didn't even bother. Another VW dealership explained that they just don't test the engine for compression to prevent debates who will pay if parts removed are damaged during removal or refitting. So basically they have admitted that their inspection is ineffective on T(F)SI engines, although most of their cars sold are now T(F)SI.

Your experience of a "dealer inspection" is not limited to Eastern Europe, it's exactly the same here in the UK - a "dealer inspection" is no more than someone walking round the car and doing a non-invasive visual box ticking exercise, nothing is taken apart for inspection, nothing is examined closely. The number of posts on UK websites where cars purchased from franchised dealers have been found to have major faults despite having a "100 point dealer inspection" is very high, and both dealers and the importer disclaim all responsibility since the car has a "dealer inspection".

The fact that it is a T(F)SI engine is irrelevant IMHO - the problem is deeper than that, it's caused by the totally futile "dealer inspection" being relied upon as an indication of the health (or otherwise) of the vehicle. This is why buyers in the UK are increasingly turning to an independent inspection of a potential purchase by a REAL engineer with mechanical knowledge not simply someone with limited mechanical knowledge who just happens to be keyboard savvy.

vreihen · Jan 7, 2018

Blazs_A4ABC said:
The Skoda dealership can't be held liable for consequenses of their poor work. Dunno how this goes in the US, but I think this is outrageous.

Here in the US, we have these people called "lawyers" who hold *everyone* accountable for their mistakes. One of the reasons why our health care is so expensive here is because there are more lawyers than doctors. This forces the doctors to carry large malpractice suit insurance policies, to pay the lawyers and patients when they second-guess every treatment in court for a jury.

Then, there's the class action suit.....

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 7, 2018

The fact that it is a T(F)SI engine is irrelevant IMHO

Nah ......every TFSI 2004> USA engine with a HPP, adjusters for cams and chains, it has been a loser as far as I have seen.
Carbon is first enemy, than there is everything else!

FACT :
Repairs exceed the value of the car at this point and the customer just buys a new one after out of warranty; this is why we see less repair work as a result.

Dave ...........just what engine codes exactly do you believe are in perfect working order & without any errors that are 4.2 or 4.0 IYHO?

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 7, 2018

Please do not forget that I live in Eastern Europe, where consumer awareness is non existent and business culture is much more "PVP". Here, after buying a new car, you are no longer a customer but a nobody and the warranty is an obligation rather than a service.
Buying a used car is a gamble of course, but VAG, instead of trying to queue in new customers for the future, gets revenge by making the sustainment of such cars as hard and expensive as possible. For instance, they are acting like you have no option for a 15k oil change. Most people can be intimidated this way and it will look like that you are a dumbf*ck and they are saving you from extra, unnecessary costs.

Looking at my example, I bought the 1.8TSI from a Skoda dealership, owned by a third person. The Skoda dealership was requested to do a pre-purchase inspection, with a focus on the TSI engine. Each and every testing point was tested OK, the dealer said 'immaculate'.
After I've realized that the car consumed 1 liter of oil per 500kms, I hit a dead end with the actual seller (will be going to court soon). So I wrote my complaint to the Skoda dealership (could have been any VAG dealership) about their inferior work, they didn't even bother. Another VW dealership explained that they just don't test the engine for compression to prevent debates who will pay if parts removed are damaged during removal or refitting. So basically they have admitted that their inspection is ineffective on T(F)SI engines, although most of their cars sold are now T(F)SI. The car had no previous record of high oil consumption. But the VW dealership will happily offer an 5000 USD rebuild, in a 10k car which according to EUROTAX rating, worth around 9500 USD which assumes used but sustainable condition. They are much more client-centric but still, they act like I was at fault (again, they are the good guy helping me out). The Skoda dealership can't be held liable for consequenses of their poor work. Dunno how this goes in the US, but I think this is outrageous.

So something that is only kept alive by its warranty (as it will fail shortly after warranty expires) is not something one would associate with quality, reliability, or fairness.

Yeah .........TOP TIER! :rolleyes:

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 7, 2018

Here in the US, we have these people called "lawyers" who hold *everyone* accountable for their mistakes.

That is a good thing, otherwise everyone and the Government "YOUR TAX MONEY "would be raped by corporations and hospitals or medical industry even more egregiously.

CASE IN POINT

This threads title ...........

PetrolDave · Jan 7, 2018

Jack@European_Parts said:
Nah ......every TFSI 2004> USA engine with a HPP, adjusters for cams and chains, it has been a loser as far as I have seen.
Carbon is first enemy, than there is everything else!

But that's not the point that OP is making - his point is that the dealer inspection didn't check the condition of the engine, which dealer inspections (certainly in the UK) never do. So that makes the engine type irrelevant.

Jack@European_Parts said:
Dave ...........just what engine codes exactly do you believe are in perfect working order & without any errors that are 4.2 or 4.0 IYHO?

Wel as previously stated I owned a B7 RS4 (engine code BNS) for 10 years and was a very active member of several RS owners forums - in all that 10 years nobody reported timing chain failures and all the power losses were diagnosed to vacuum leaks (and cured by fixing them) not carbon buildup.

If you know of failures to the BNS engine then I wonder why no RS4 owners posted about them on RS owners forums? There was lots of accusations of carbon buildup problems, but none were ever found to be the cause of power losses or pinking issues.

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 7, 2018

Wel as previously stated I owned a B7 RS4 (engine code BNS) for 10 years and was a very active member of several RS owners forums - in all that 10 years nobody reported timing chain failures and all the power losses were diagnosed to vacuum leaks (and cured by fixing them) not carbon buildup.

If you know of failures to the BNS engine then I wonder why no RS4 owners posted about them on RS owners forums? There was lots of accusations of carbon buildup problems, but none were ever found to be the cause of power losses or pinking issues.

Doesn't matter the version engine but stratified will lose twice as fast due to the carbon issues as a result of valve overlap & no washing.
Many of those engines BAR or BNS failed while right in warranty and it was so bad......... it resulted in changing an entire engine!

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_377.pdf

Workshop campaign 28E9 Transaction No.: 2019112/11
Replacing ignition coils Release date: 31-Aug-2011

All engines from these generations suffered from poor grounds and coil pack failures & that resulted in misfire vicariously dumping of fuel in oil and chain failure by means of sump contamination.........That misfire started with PCV and improper un-remediated oil & EVAP during the vapor blending process, further entering the combustion process & due to blow by which resulted in CAT/SAI/OXS & all AECDS failure.

PetrolDave · Jan 7, 2018

Jack@European_Parts said:
Many of those engines BAR or BNS failed while right in warranty and it was so bad......... it resulted in changing an entire engine!

I must admit to being puzzled why no RS4 owners on the 3 forums I was regular on for over 10 years ever had an engine changed?

Jack@European_Parts said:
Workshop campaign 28E9 Transaction No.: 2019112/11
Replacing ignition coils Release date: 31-Aug-2011

I had that TSB carried out, didn't notice any difference before or after the coil packs were checked/changed - all the "buzz" at the time was that the TSB only affected certain batches/suffixes of coil packs that had not been correctly manufactured and allowed water/oil ingress into the coil pack.

Jack@European_Parts said:
All engines from these generations suffered from poor grounds and coil pack failures & that resulted in misfire vicariously dumping of fuel in oil and chain failure by means of sump contamination.........That misfire started with PCV and improper un-remediated oil & EVAP during the vapor blending process, further entering the combustion process & due to blow by which resulted in CAT/SAI/OXS & all AECDS failure.

I can't remember a single post by RS4 owners who had CAT or OXS failure?

Maybe the BAR engine was much more badly affected than the BNS engine? Because my experience as a long-term owner of a BNS and significant contributor to many owners forums (2 of which were US based) is that the problems experienced with the BNS engine were not as wide spread as your posts reveal.

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 7, 2018

I must admit to being puzzled why no RS4 owners on the 3 forums I was regular on for over 10 years ever had an engine changed?

Not me......... because Audi makes it a contingency + goes out of their way to inform the customer would now lose its value ultimately & convinces the consumer by use of TSB's and clever marketing to get the consumer to buy a new one or accept blame for the damage as a result of the consumer not doing as they are told.

TOP TIER or OIL SPECS come to mind now?

I had that TSB carried out, didn't notice any difference before or after the coil packs were checked/changed - all the "buzz" at the time was that the TSB only affected certain batches/suffixes of coil packs that had not been correctly manufactured and allowed water/oil ingress into the coil pack.

Think about it Dave .......what made the oil leak past and into coil pack areas resulting in such misfires?
Think it could have anything to do with extended oil changes & which now have gasoline mixed with the oil?

I can't remember a single post by RS4 owners who had CAT or OXS failure?

FOD programming?
8E1-910-560 series BNS engines all had their pass-thru.........medicine!

IE Italian Tunes

Maybe the BAR engine was much more badly affected than the BNS engine? Because my experience as a long-term owner of a BNS and significant contributor to many owners forums (2 of which were US based) is that the problems experienced with the BNS engine were not as wide spread as your posts reveal.

Maybe because there are far many less RS4 owners and no one wants to lose an investment by broadcasting their car is a lemon when wanting to dump it.
The more expensive the car the more likely the person has a brain.........or is just oblivious to issue and just tells the butler to deal with it.

PetrolDave · Jan 7, 2018

Jack@European_Parts said:
FOD programming?
Italian Tunes

Clearly you don't understand what the term "Italian Tunes" means - it does NOT mean any physical or software tuning to the engine mechanics or firmware. What it does mean is using FULL throttle & FULL engine rpm range and can also be known as "driving like you stole it". Try it sometime (in a safe environment), it's a great adrenalin rush if you enjoy the skill of driving :cool:

Jack@European_Parts said:
Maybe because there are far many less RS4 owners and no one wants to lose an investment by broadcasting their car is a lemon when wanting to dump it.
The more expensive the car the more likely the person has a brain.........or is just oblivious to issue and just tells the butler to deal with it.

Absolutely not - many RS4s were bought by enthusiasts who expected their car to be 100% perfect, and were not afraid to go VERY public on owners forums about problems they perceived.

Your experience is different to mine, and your level of cynicism higher (very few people who know me would believe that anyone can be more cynical than me...), so I think we might as well end discussion of this subject here as we're not going to agree on this one.

Jack@European_Parts · Jan 7, 2018

Clearly you don't understand what the term "Italian Tunes" means - it does NOT mean any physical or software tuning to the engine mechanics or firmware. What it does mean is using FULL throttle & FULL engine rpm range and can also be known as "driving like you stole it". Try it sometime (in a safe environment), it's a great adrenalin rush if you enjoy the skill of driving

Oh I do it's.......... FOD by means of?
Are there not Pass Thru for BAR or BNS?

Hence this thread!

Absolutely not - many RS4s were bought by enthusiasts who expected their car to be 100% perfect, and were not afraid to go VERY public on owners forums about problems they perceived.

Your experience is different to mine, and your level of cynicism higher (very few people who know me would believe that anyone can be more cynical than me...), so I think we might as well end discussion of this subject here as we're not going to agree on this one.

In this case indeed we will not......but I respect your stance because you are no dummy either.
Think about it this way I don't rely on forums only for facts & or total forum statistics, your argument seems to be "I have not heard anything in forums".

Personally I prefer the RTFB and search TSB's first and then the forums added into the mix as an additional guide.

You would be surprised how many techs are threatened at dealers or at OEM training classes & that if they are caught posting in a forum ........they will be unemployed or blacklisted!

PetrolDave · Jan 7, 2018

Jack@European_Parts said:
Oh I do it's.......... FOD by means of?

How can driving a car how it's been designed to be driven be FOD?
If I had NOT driven like that when I worked for an automotive consultancy questions would have been asked...

Jack@European_Parts said:
your argument seems to be "I have not heard anything in forums"

My argument is "I owned one from new for 10 years and 85000 miles and had no problems" - personal long term experience, not just forum reading.

THE END - really this time.

Cheaters? Recalls? Discuss

Verified VCDS User

Benevolent Dictator

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Verified VCDS User

Verified VCDS User

Verified VCDS User

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Gone But Not Forgotten

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User