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Thread: Cheaters? Recalls? Discuss

  1. #141
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I've got the air-cooled VW Formula Vee engine half apart in the driveway if you're *that* bored! No emissions concerns either, since it is obviously for off-road/competition use only.....


    I thought you did that yourself already Art?

    The only Formula V that is XXX
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  2. #142
    Verified VCDS User vreihen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    I thought you did that yourself already Art?
    I pulled the seized cylinders/heads and broke them free, and gave it a half-assed cleaning to remove the rusty sand that filled them up through the open valves. When I went to put one of the jugs back on, the shim at the base of that cylinder disintegrated. My understanding is that the shims are there to set the final deck height, so I would need to find the correct thickness shim or risk a piston crash if the stroke is that close to the top. Considering that it was built as a race engine, I would think that they decked it extremely tightly for maximum compression under the rules.

    Anyway, I tried to put a heavy coat of epoxy paint into the intake manifold runners to prevent another rust-bowl, but never went any further with putting it back together.....
    Last edited by vreihen; 12-07-2016 at 02:24 PM.

  3. #143
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I pulled the seized cylinders/heads and broke them free, and gave it a half-assed cleaning to remove the rusty sand that filled them up through the open valves. When I went to put one of the jugs back on, the shim at the base of that cylinder disintegrated. My understanding is that the shims are there to set the final deck height, so I would need to find the correct thickness shim or risk a piston crash if the stroke is that close to the top. Considering that it was built as a race engine, I would think that they decked it extremely tightly for maximum compression under the rules.

    Anyway, I tried to put a heavy coat of enamel paint into the intake manifold runners to prevent another rust-bowl, but never went any further with putting it back together.....
    Shims are no problem, and this is real easy to measure.
    I have the master set still somewhere, just like old valve/lifter disk shims for early rabbits I saw the other day..........going through the archives.

    Now back to Marin since we are off topic...............

    How are you going to correct a NOX and ash pile up issue in a DPF/EGR/Intake with a software update?

    You do realize that before the EPA pulled the trigger on VWGoA, they gave them many months to address the issue right?

    VWGoA ignored and lied saying there was no issue just like you wanted them to do ........and as expected.

    Thomas and Kurt should be fired from VWGoA...........it will happen though give it time.

    Please advise I want to hear this master skilled answer.............

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  4. #144
    Professional User Jetta ,97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    No they couldn't because they were caught in a scheme......penalty would be far worse than just civil penalty.
    So far no one is in jail just like the banks ...........it's just a check.

    We are not talking about Mercedes here or scenarios.
    It's a matter of getting caught and the right ear being blown in...........
    Maybe VAG shouldn't of tried to mislead people into saying our car is clean, when it is not and even after all the DPF's plugged up anyway even running "lean".
    Charging people $4500 for just the DPF ..........I suppose that was fair.........

    So Marin explain to me how a software fix, is going to rectify a more rich fuel strategy & to lower NOX by not plugging up the "DPF EGR Intake system" even more?

    I'm all ears...........
    Look at those Videos, This is why I said they could say it was software bug.Basically they made software works 2 ways.
    All those TDI when they car in USA pass emission with out problems in traction off mode. So they could simply say software error, same thing Toyota did.




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  5. #145
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Look at those Videos, This is why I said they could say it was software bug.Basically they made software works 2 ways.
    All those TDI when they car in USA pass emission with out problems in traction off mode. So they could simply say software error, same thing Toyota did.



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    Oh I see how you are approaching this now ............you just don't know WTF you are saying.
    This is not going to make the problem go away or correct a problem that is already a problem, while further compounding it if they did it with "JUST SOFTWARE"!
    Time to not just read the SSP or blindly believe what is said .........now it's time to know what is actually happening..........

    If you fatten the mixture up to lower NOX.......... the OXS and DPF/PSI/EGR/INTAKE/& EGT sensors plug right up..........& they already do this running the "LEAN" strategy.

    Want to try again?



    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 12-07-2016 at 08:39 PM.
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  6. #146
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetta ,97 View Post
    Look at those Videos, This is why I said they could say it was software bug.Basically they made software works 2 ways.
    All those TDI when they car in USA pass emission with out problems in traction off mode. So they could simply say software error, same thing Toyota did.




    I don't believe either of these are valid comparisons cheat mode and normal mode. I expect that "cheat mode" is based on a time/speed/distance computation, plus an engine temperature profile that matches the defined EPA (or EU in that market) test parameters, not on whether the rear wheels are turning. Somewhere there's a video made by some researchers who disassembled the ECU code and found this stuff, and what they found cannot be explained away as a "bug".

    That said, the amount of NOx produced by these cars is insignificant in the overall scheme of things and I don't feel the least bit of guilt driving either of the TDIs that we own, nor will I sell them back or allow them to be "fixed". Yes, I'm deplorable.
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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  8. #147
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I don't believe either of these are valid comparisons cheat mode and normal mode. I expect that "cheat mode" is based on a time/speed/distance computation, plus an engine temperature profile that matches the defined EPA (or EU in that market) test parameters, not on whether the rear wheels are turning. Somewhere there's a video made by some researchers who disassembled the ECU code and found this stuff, and what they found cannot be explained away as a "bug".

    That said, the amount of NOx produced by these cars is insignificant in the overall scheme of things and I don't feel the least bit of guilt driving either of the TDIs that we own, nor will I sell them back or allow them to be "fixed". Yes, I'm deplorable.
    Now that's a good answer........ /\ Thank you Uwe...........

    I can tell you that when in the clean mode "which is dirty" with prerequisites met, disabling the ABS or rear wheel speed sensors by plugging in static ABS sensors, that force readiness tests pop up that were not there before in basic settings...............and can be observed in VCDS!
    This is in addition to the parameters Uwe is describing, however, which are ignored in a basic setting test........because in basic settings after valid LOGIN/Mode, you are instructing the ecu to do something to see the calibration test requirements & to turn the test on in VCDS.

    The "dirty mode" which is "leaner" wont activate if a DTC is present from what I have observed......and is a contributing factor to particulate pile up in cars driven with an MIL or ABS DTC.

    Eric and I witnessed this in my car first hand & when dealing with the ABS long coding being lost. Further though verifying one version ECU controller to another during the ABS long coding issues & long before any university in WVA. The reason we saw the ash was we were watching the data live, while also verifying to establish levels to get or do regens for ash pile up for VCDS.

    My car wasn't going into regens, however, ash was piling up like crazy..........eventually a PSI sensor plugged up.
    When my own car failed NYS inspection I called the EPA and Uwe .........& the same day.

    No DTC's after nefarious update, stock controller and readiness not made for CAT on OBD2 side, and all ready on VAG side......WTF!

    Eric had an update done in his TDI for the TSB for the OXS sensor being RICH, and even after doing the update, shortly after he got the OXS DTC again........know why? ash pile up!
    I told Eric about some experiments I was doing.........so he drove up.
    We removed the OXS, cleaned with oven cleaner, and burned the OXS with a propane torch ........after rinsed.........DTC gone!

    It is my opinion that, most of the problem came from extended oil change intervals, and a failed blow by gases to remediate vapors properly, further allowing for oil to become part of the combustion process. In addition the poor fuel qualities found in the USA, force the system to deploy an even richer mixture to mask the detonation from combustion temps due to lower Cetane.

    Anyone that knows diesels can tell you, the audible quieter engine when they fill a filter canister with diesel purge, and use high test additive during a pump and injector conditioning service.

    Just my two cents.........
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  9. #148
    Professional User Jetta ,97's Avatar
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    Jack My point is , that Evey Manufacturer cheating those days.
    Have you ever drive behind Dodge V8 cars?
    I can not stand how much stick comes out it, I have to chnage lane. And it is legal emission , I do not think so?
    Everyone those days can make car pass emission in software.I bet you if this was USA production car , it will be no big deal.

    VW was taking to much of USA market specifically TDI, Last 5 -7 years you see more TDI cars on road then last 25 years in USA.
    I think biggest problem is that they said it is Clean Diesel.
    One way or other we are who will pay price for it.
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  10. #149
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetta ,97 View Post
    Jack My point is , that Evey Manufacturer cheating those days.
    Agreed. From the very beginning, I've said that VW is certainly not the only car maker that engages in "Emissions Cycle Beating".

    Manager 1: What do we need to do to legally sell these cars in that market?
    Manager 2: We need to pass their emissions test.
    Manager 1 to Engineering: Can you make it pass that test?
    Engineering: Sure, but it won't meet spec in the real world.
    Managers: So? In order to be legal, it only needs to pass those tests, right?
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  11. #150
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Jack My point is , that Evey Manufacturer cheating those days.
    Have you ever drive behind Dodge V8 cars?
    I can not stand how much stick comes out it, I have to chnage lane. And it is legal emission , I do not think so?
    Everyone those days can make car pass emission in software.I bet you if this was USA production car , it will be no big deal.

    VW was taking to much of USA market specifically TDI, Last 5 -7 years you see more TDI cars on road then last 25 years in USA.
    I think biggest problem is that they said it is Clean Diesel.
    One way or other we are who will pay price for it.
    No your point is invalid ..........we are not talking about other manufacturers or about anti-competition.
    Have you considered politics?
    The question was and still is for you Marin ...........How are you or the OEM going to produce a software update, that will lower NOX, and deal with the issues of fuel used, particulate pile up in intake or destruction of the EGR,EGT's,DPF, PSI, Flap valve or OXS sensors?

    Please advise...........
    I await a valid answer to back up aforementioned statement & in your own words, not bullshit videos which are agreed......... are Bullshit!

    As for EPA going after AFT or OEM for diesel for USA manufactures, there are in fact cases of prosecution.........& easily found in a quick Google search.

    The biggest problem is VWGoA lied and got caught!

    I'm on my way to help my friend Andy return his 2010 TDI to the dealership & to document how it goes for what is said during the process.
    I think I will record it.........

    So far Marin, I'm disappointed in these responses.......... I expected better.

    Agreed. From the very beginning, I've said that VW is certainly not the only car maker that engages in "Emissions Cycle Beating".

    Manager 1: What do we need to do to legally sell these cars in that market?
    Manager 2: We need to pass their emissions test.
    Manager 1 to Engineering: Can you make it pass that test?
    Engineering: Sure, but it won't meet spec in the real world.
    Managers: So? In order to be legal, it only needs to pass those tests, right?
    Affirmative you did indeed!
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