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Thread: Cheaters? Recalls? Discuss

  1. #631
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    https://techxplore.com/news/2019-12-...ieselgate.html

    Mass English lawsuit over VW 'dieselgate' reaches court


    https://www.theguardian.com/business...h-court-battle

    VW accused of using 'innovative' defences in high court battle

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50631823

    Volkswagen: UK drivers fight for 'dieselgate' compensation

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  2. #632
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    Volkswagen headquarters raided again over diesel scandal

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...el-scandal.amp
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  3. #633
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Huh, am I missing something else?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...h-court-battle
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  4. #634
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    Let me be the Devil's Advocate here for a moment. Let's assume the court rules that what VW did was indeed illegal. How were the owners of these cars, who are now the plaintiffs in this class-action, harmed? Lower re-sale value?

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  5. #635
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Let me be the Devil's Advocate here for a moment. Let's assume the court rules that what VW did was indeed illegal. How were the owners of these cars, who are now the plaintiffs in this class-action, harmed? Lower re-sale value?


    Well let's see.....?
    Didn't the consumers get lied to and entered into a contractual agreement for consideration under a false pretense and forward expectations of investment, while the parties didn't have a meeting of the minds & through wilful wanton nefarious widespread fraud & said information being withheld and people indeed paid up for TDI and that fraud was admittedly stipulated too, no?
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  6. #636
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    Well let's see.....?
    Didn't the consumers get lied to and entered into a contractual agreement for consideration under a false pretense and forward expectations of investment, while the parties didn't have a meeting of the minds & through wilful wanton nefarious widespread fraud & said information being withheld and people indeed paid up for TDI and that fraud was admittedly stipulated too, no?
    In order to claim compensation in a lawsuit, don't you have to show actual harm? Show me the actual harm to the people who purchased these cars.

    FWIW, I love my "cheating" TDI. I don't feel harmed in the slightest.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  7. #637
    Ross-Tech Employee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    In order to claim compensation in a lawsuit, don't you have to show actual harm?
    In the days past, I believe you are correct about making claims... in the new norm of this world? I think most anything goes.

    There is some harm in my opinion. Once corrected, the car will not get the efficiency originally stated.. That means to operate the car, the owner will now have higher fuel costs. That seems to be harm if the advertised fuel economy cannot be achieved while meeting the environmental rules.

    That said, none of what I have written appears to be part of the complaint! In what is documented in the article, I agree with Uwe... there is no harm... I wonder why they do not focus on the lower fuel economy and instead are focused on "the poisoning of the public with NOx." Color me not understanding the legal precedents!

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  9. #638
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I wonder why they do not focus on the lower fuel economy and instead are focused on "the poisoning of the public with NOx." Color me not understanding the legal precedents!
    The UK courts (and the media and government) are much more easily persuaded by issues relating to supposed harm to people and the environment than to the increased financial cost to owners resulting from 'the fix'. Hence why the Class action is focussing on environmental issues not financial issues - the lawyers believe they have a greater chance of persuading the judge(s) to find in their favour.

    It's a funny old world...

  10. #639
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    In order to claim compensation in a lawsuit, don't you have to show actual harm? Show me the actual harm to the people who purchased these cars.

    FWIW, I love my "cheating" TDI. I don't feel harmed in the slightest.

    -Uwe-
    Don't you think that you, as well as consumers worldwide and the market in general has been disrupted?

    Have you considered how RT has suffered directly or indirectly by the TDI issues, for example all the cars that were bought back took VCDS cables in circulation to be resold as used, further diluting a market which also became non existent for services you provide in paid tech people you employ and those potential customers were temporarily squashed?

    Liking how the vehicle performs and drives is one thing and I happen to agree with that part.

    I don't agree and take issue with how VAG is making things harder to fix, with vague release of data in the RTFB or how it's not disseminated in the scanner via ODIS by deploying such algorithmic mechanism's, especially hiding behind an alleged high security component & when we all know that is bullshit!
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  11. #640
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Volkswagen HQ Raided Again by German Authorities Over Dieselgate Concerns: Report



    https://www.thedrive.com/news/31312/...oncerns-report









    https://www.motor1.com/news/386116/v...lgate-scandal/

    VW Headquarters Raided Again Amid New Diesel Cheat Accusations
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