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Thread: 2008 A4 B7 2.0T - cranks, no start, no error codes

  1. #1
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    Question 2008 A4 B7 2.0T - cranks, no start, no error codes

    I'm baffled here - I picked this '08 A4 B7 up from an auction (at 66k miles); it was reversed into (thus, front-end damage only, no bags deployed). Previous owner seems to have done some "work" on the engine - found the timing belt skipped 3 teeth over (beyond) the camshaft sprocket timing align mark(that's about 5 degrees advance); fixed it; engine cranked - but no start. On first crank it seemed the horse in one of the cylinders wanted to pull the cart, but that was it. The other 3 cylinders didn't want to follow.

    First thing I check is the key fob (car only came with one) - it's recognized and associated, so it's not the immobilizer killing the engine.

    Checked the ignition coils - all spark nicely; replaced all plugs with brand new premium laser cuts, just in case. Nada.

    So then I checked fuel lines - LPFP worked, HPFP worked - relief HPFP valve squirts gasoline when at rest... there's gas on the rail... pulled, took apart and inspected HPFP = all good...

    i then thought it'd be bad injectors - so I replaced all injectors with brand new Standard motor Prod injectors. No luck.

    Next I checked voltage coming to the injectors. With the KOEO, the charge (+) on the injector should read anywhere between 5 and 12V, right? Nope - measured at 0.45V... on all 4 injector plugs... So I go What The Halo.

    K, so then I'm thinking maybe the ECM doesn't get juice - checked and measured all relays, fuses (both under ECU and dashboard)... all pass...

    Next - checked the wires - none of the cables pinched or wet...no shorts anywhere, perfect shape.

    Then I buy and run VCDS... maybe there's something it could see that I didn't.

    (Since I corrected the timing belt alignment - I used the VCDS to check the TDC - it shows 0, so that confirms that I I aligned the timing belt properly and also the camshaft position sensor works OK).

    Only error code is for G85 (Steering Angle Sensor)... low voltage terminal 30 (battery was dead when I picked the vehicle up... recharged afterwards)... this code typically goes away on its own after you start and drive it. NOTE: battery voltage is proper now, at 12.86V.

    I then try to use the VCDS to get the SAS to calibrate... no luck, cannot open the control module... not worried too much, most that can happen here is the ABS and Traction Control would not kick in, right? This wouldn't kill the engine.

    I then measure with the VCDS to make sure it's not a fuel issue that I didn't see... LP fuel measured at 6.8 bars equalized to 5.85 bars.... High-pressure (rail) fuel read at 115.4 bars... so we're fine at electronics here.

    Next I do a TBA via the VCDS - completes fine. Cranks again, no start, no error codes whatsoever.

    VCDS says the ECU is the original - VIN matches chassis, mileage on ECU matches mileage on trans module and from another one of the components (I forget which others I checked).

    I'm baffled.

    I suspect 2 things:

    1) previous owner flashed/advanced timing? If so, how do I get this to stock flash image?

    2) the ECU is at fault - I've purchased another one from a salvage yard (identical vehicle, same year, twice the miles) to use. Plan on swapping them and see what that does.. Stealership refuses to flash the salvage yard ECU - they want me to buy a new one from them for $1,385 and have them flash and install that one... I'd rather shave my rear and walk like that in public than throw $1,400 for a part + then a few more $ for less than 30 minutes of labor (connect, launch interface, log in, swap VINs on ECU, save, disconnect, hand me invoice and have me bend over).

    I'll post the diag log later tonight, but I warn y'all it's clean with the exception of that SAS Term 30 error that I already know what caused it, so there's not much to see there.

    Thoughts? Ideas?

    >>EDIT 8/12/2015 @ 6:43PM
    VCDS scan log below:

    Code:
    Tuesday,11,August,2015,20:37:16:40306
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 8.1 x64(VirtualBox)
    VCDS Version 15.7.0.1 (x64)
    Data version: 20150729
    www.Ross-Tech.com
    
    
    VIN: WAUDF78E18A002593   License Plate: 
    Mileage: 106580km-66225mi   Repair Order: 
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Chassis Type: 8E (8E - Audi A4/S4/RS4 B6/B7 (2001 > 2008))
    Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 25 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 65
              67 69 75 76 77
     
    VIN: WAUDF78E18A002593   Mileage: 106580km-66225miles
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E1 910 115 G    HW: 8E0 907 115 D
       Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI     0010  
       Revision: 5EH15---    Serial number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
       Coding: 0104010A190F0120
       Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
       VCID: 2643A1E9917A7F0E0C-8073
    
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0110 0101
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09L-927-760.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E1 910 156 K    HW: 09L 927 156 B
       Component: AG6 09L 2,0TFSI USA 0050  
       Revision: --H01---    Serial number:        4327249
       Coding: 0000002
       Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
       VCID: 2F6D44CDBE803E46FF-807B
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8E0-910-517.clb
       Part No SW: 8E0 910 517 J    HW: 8E0 614 517 BH
       Component: ESP8 quattro    H06 0140  
       Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 0004528
       Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
       VCID: 2E5359C9B98A374EF4-807B
    
    1 Fault Found:
    01826 - Sensor for Steering Angle (G85); Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
                000 -  - 
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 01100000
                        Fault Priority: 3
                        Fault Frequency: 4
                        Reset counter: 40
                        Time Indication: 0
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Hex Value: 0x0000
                        Hex Value: 0x4202
                        Hex Value: 0x0024
                        Hex Value: 0x0195
                        Hex Value: 0x0001
    
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 820 043 BM
       Component:   A4 Klimaautomat   3233  
       Coding: 00000
       Shop #: WSC 00000  
       VCID: 6DD19EC5270C8C568D-5141
    
    1 Fault Found:
    01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time 
                27-00 - Implausible Signal
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 8E0-907-279-8EC.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 907 279 N
       Component: int. Lastmodul  USA 0907  
       Coding: 00003
       Shop #: WSC 06325  
       VCID: 3D716E8537ECDCD67D-4B1B
    
    2 Faults Found:
    01496 - Bulb for Fog-Lamps; Left (L22) 
                30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
    01500 - Bulb for Fog-Lamps; Right (L23) 
                30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8E0-959-655-94.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E0 959 655 M    HW: 8E0 959 655 M
       Component:    Airbag 9.41  H01 4240  
       Revision: 91H01424    Serial number: 003CS0G00D7-  
       Coding: 0032607
       Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
       VCID: 418912751814B83619-8015
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E0 910 339 D
       Component: BF-Gewichtsens. H03 0080
    
       Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 00WCV         
    
       Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 0001.01.0000H0300000000000˙†63
    
       Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 000000˙†6332DRB404E25414H˙†63
    
       Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 25414H˙†6342DRB405258B28P˙†63
    
       Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 58B28P˙†6352ARB4026B00719˙†63
    
       Subsystem 7 - Serial number: B00719˙†6362ARB4026B0837K˙†63
    
       Subsystem 8 - Serial number: B0837K˙†63729RB4027BEC04X˙†63
    
       Subsystem 9 - Serial number: BEC04X˙†63829RB4027BEC03X˙
    
       Subsystem 10 - Serial number: BEC03X˙
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 953 549 Q
       Component: Lenksáulenmodul     0701  
       Coding: 02141
       Shop #: WSC 06325  
       VCID: 418912754B14B83619-4B1B
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E0 920 951 N    HW: 8E0 920 951 N
       Component: KOMBI+WFS 4     H14 0200  
       Revision: 0200        Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 0023268
       Shop #: WSC 03089 444 51702
       VCID: 356176A55FDC0496B5-5141
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E0 920 951 N    HW: 8E0 920 951 N
       Component: KOMBI+WFS 4     H14 0200  
       Revision: 0200        Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 0023268
       Shop #: WSC 03089 444 51702
       VCID: 356176A55FDC0496B5-515F
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 8E0-959-433-MAX.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 959 433 CP
       Component: Komfortgerát T7B    4236  
       Coding: 11820
       Shop #: WSC 06325  
       VCID: 0109D2750B94783659-4B1B
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E1959801G
       Component: Tőrsteuer.FS BRM 0706  
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E1959802G
       Component: Tőrsteuer.BF BRM 0706  
    
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8E0959801E
       Component: Tőrsteuer.HL BRM 0606  
    
       Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8E0959802E
       Component: Tőrsteuer.HR BRM 0606  
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8J0-035-1xx-56.clb
       Part No SW: 8E0 035 195 AC    HW: 8E0 035 195 AC
       Component: R Symphony2+    H07 0240  
       Revision: 00H07000    Serial number: AUZ1Z4G4458757
       Coding: 0210112
       Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
       VCID: 68DFEFD158EEA97EFE-515F
    
    No Faults Found
      or DTCs not supported by controller
      or a communication error occurred
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 65: Tire Pressure        Labels: 8E0-907-273.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E0 907 273 A    HW: 8E0 907 273 A
       Component: Reifendruck 3   H04 0130  
       Coding: 0062121
       Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
       VCID: 2A5B55D986625B6E28-515F
    
    No fault code found.
    
    End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 06:48)--------------------------
    Last edited by Uwe; 08-12-2015 at 06:10 PM. Reason: CODE tags

  2. #2
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Please post an auto-scan ........
    Is car modified to your knowledge?
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
    Certified Master Trained NY/BAR/BAD 7076062/ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts
    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

  3. #3
    Ross-Tech Employee Jef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4Trial View Post
    2) the ECU is at fault - I've purchased another one from a salvage yard (identical vehicle, same year, twice the miles) to use.
    Sheet metal may be the same, but that doesn't mean the electronics are the same. Be sure the part number matches up 103% To that end, please read over this.

    The dealer may not be able to match up a used ECM. Odis (factory scan tool) has a rather... iffy... track record. It seems VW and Audi forgot they made cars a few years ago.

    Please do a compression test and let us know the results.

    Also, as noted by Jack, a full Auto-Scan please.
    Jef
    Ross Tech Support Team, Alpha Squad
    Auto-Scan, learn it, love it, live it... then check the fuses.

  4. #4
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    VCDS scan following...

    ====

    Code:
    Tuesday,11,August,2015,20:37:16:40306
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 8.1 x64(VirtualBox)
    VCDS Version 15.7.0.1 (x64)
    Data version: 20150729
    www.Ross-Tech.com
    
    
    VIN: WAUDF78E18A002593   License Plate: 
    Mileage: 106580km-66225mi   Repair Order: 
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Chassis Type: 8E (8E - Audi A4/S4/RS4 B6/B7 (2001 > 2008))
    Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 25 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 65
              67 69 75 76 77
     
    VIN: WAUDF78E18A002593   Mileage: 106580km-66225miles
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E1 910 115 G    HW: 8E0 907 115 D
       Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI     0010  
       Revision: 5EH15---    Serial number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
       Coding: 0104010A190F0120
       Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
       VCID: 2643A1E9917A7F0E0C-8073
    
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0110 0101
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09L-927-760.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E1 910 156 K    HW: 09L 927 156 B
       Component: AG6 09L 2,0TFSI USA 0050  
       Revision: --H01---    Serial number:        4327249
       Coding: 0000002
       Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
       VCID: 2F6D44CDBE803E46FF-807B
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 8E0-910-517.clb
       Part No SW: 8E0 910 517 J    HW: 8E0 614 517 BH
       Component: ESP8 quattro    H06 0140  
       Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 0004528
       Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
       VCID: 2E5359C9B98A374EF4-807B
    
    1 Fault Found:
    01826 - Sensor for Steering Angle (G85); Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
                000 -  - 
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 01100000
                        Fault Priority: 3
                        Fault Frequency: 4
                        Reset counter: 40
                        Time Indication: 0
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Hex Value: 0x0000
                        Hex Value: 0x4202
                        Hex Value: 0x0024
                        Hex Value: 0x0195
                        Hex Value: 0x0001
    
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 820 043 BM
       Component:   A4 Klimaautomat   3233  
       Coding: 00000
       Shop #: WSC 00000  
       VCID: 6DD19EC5270C8C568D-5141
    
    1 Fault Found:
    01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time 
                27-00 - Implausible Signal
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 8E0-907-279-8EC.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 907 279 N
       Component: int. Lastmodul  USA 0907  
       Coding: 00003
       Shop #: WSC 06325  
       VCID: 3D716E8537ECDCD67D-4B1B
    
    2 Faults Found:
    01496 - Bulb for Fog-Lamps; Left (L22) 
                30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
    01500 - Bulb for Fog-Lamps; Right (L23) 
                30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8E0-959-655-94.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E0 959 655 M    HW: 8E0 959 655 M
       Component:    Airbag 9.41  H01 4240  
       Revision: 91H01424    Serial number: 003CS0G00D7-  
       Coding: 0032607
       Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
       VCID: 418912751814B83619-8015
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E0 910 339 D
       Component: BF-Gewichtsens. H03 0080
    
       Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 00WCV         
    
       Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 0001.01.0000H0300000000000˙†63
    
       Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 000000˙†6332DRB404E25414H˙†63
    
       Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 25414H˙†6342DRB405258B28P˙†63
    
       Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 58B28P˙†6352ARB4026B00719˙†63
    
       Subsystem 7 - Serial number: B00719˙†6362ARB4026B0837K˙†63
    
       Subsystem 8 - Serial number: B0837K˙†63729RB4027BEC04X˙†63
    
       Subsystem 9 - Serial number: BEC04X˙†63829RB4027BEC03X˙
    
       Subsystem 10 - Serial number: BEC03X˙
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 953 549 Q
       Component: Lenksáulenmodul     0701  
       Coding: 02141
       Shop #: WSC 06325  
       VCID: 418912754B14B83619-4B1B
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E0 920 951 N    HW: 8E0 920 951 N
       Component: KOMBI+WFS 4     H14 0200  
       Revision: 0200        Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 0023268
       Shop #: WSC 03089 444 51702
       VCID: 356176A55FDC0496B5-5141
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E0 920 951 N    HW: 8E0 920 951 N
       Component: KOMBI+WFS 4     H14 0200  
       Revision: 0200        Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 0023268
       Shop #: WSC 03089 444 51702
       VCID: 356176A55FDC0496B5-515F
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 8E0-959-433-MAX.lbl
       Part No: 8E0 959 433 CP
       Component: Komfortgerát T7B    4236  
       Coding: 11820
       Shop #: WSC 06325  
       VCID: 0109D2750B94783659-4B1B
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E1959801G
       Component: Tőrsteuer.FS BRM 0706  
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E1959802G
       Component: Tőrsteuer.BF BRM 0706  
    
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8E0959801E
       Component: Tőrsteuer.HL BRM 0606  
    
       Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8E0959802E
       Component: Tőrsteuer.HR BRM 0606  
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8J0-035-1xx-56.clb
       Part No SW: 8E0 035 195 AC    HW: 8E0 035 195 AC
       Component: R Symphony2+    H07 0240  
       Revision: 00H07000    Serial number: AUZ1Z4G4458757
       Coding: 0210112
       Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
       VCID: 68DFEFD158EEA97EFE-515F
    
    No Faults Found
      or DTCs not supported by controller
      or a communication error occurred
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 65: Tire Pressure        Labels: 8E0-907-273.lbl
       Part No SW: 8E0 907 273 A    HW: 8E0 907 273 A
       Component: Reifendruck 3   H04 0130  
       Coding: 0062121
       Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
       VCID: 2A5B55D986625B6E28-515F
    
    No fault code found.
    
    End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 06:48)--------------------------
    Last edited by Uwe; 08-12-2015 at 06:10 PM. Reason: CODE tags

  5. #5
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    Please see append at end of description.

    No, the car is not physically modded in any way (everything seems to be original)

  6. #6
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I can help you get that ecu back to stock if interested.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
    Certified Master Trained NY/BAR/BAD 7076062/ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts
    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    I can help you get that ecu back to stock if interested.
    Are you saying that the ECU was re-programmed? How can you tell?
    Sure, I am interested!

  8. #8
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Even if it was reprogrammed, I'm having a hard time with the idea that such reprogramming would keep the car from starting, unless it's in "Anti Theft Mode". I know APR offers this (see here) and perhaps other tuners do as well?

    -Uwe-
    Lock-down of sick people: Quarantine
    Lock-down of healthy people: Tyranny

  9. #9
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    I was actually talking to a friend who had a similar experience with a Honda Odyssey that was flooded... similar situation.. he replaced everything except the ECU... same thing with engine cranking and not starting in his case as well...

    what ended up being in his case was the immobilizer...

    And in watching the Ross Tech YouTube videos on immobilizer, I realize that none of my modules have an immobilizer S/N associated with them! (querying channel 81 only shows VIN, but shows "XXXXXXXX...XXXXX < > " for the remainder)

    So that made me think... what if it's the same thing here? Could that be it?

  10. #10
    Ross-Tech Employee Jef's Avatar
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    I don't think the Immobilizer is the issue. The ECM doesn't have a "Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer" type fault code, and no codes in the Immobilizer as well. Go into the Immob module and see if it allows engine start.

    25-08-022.1, should have a value of "1" which means the Immobilizer will allow and engine start.
    Click here to see what that means.

    If the Immobilizer was kicking in, the engine would start, but only run for a second or two, then shut down.... so you would get "fire" briefly.
    Jef
    Ross Tech Support Team, Alpha Squad
    Auto-Scan, learn it, love it, live it... then check the fuses.

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