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Thread: 07 V10 TDI. And so it begins...

  1. #1
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    07 V10 TDI. And so it begins...

    [short side trip]
    My girlfriend loved her 04 V8 Touareg that we picked up several months ago, but she's a bit finicky when it comes to things being in nice shape. At the time we found the 04 there just weren't a lot of TDI vehicles out there for sale (zero, as a matter of fact). So we picked up a silver V8, non air ride and rocked it for a while. I did the transmission valve body many moons ago (hard shift from 4-5, cured completely with the new body), and most recently I did the front lower control arms (shimmy on light braking).

    The day I finished the front LCA job she found a nearly flawless 07 V10 TDI. An hour later we took it home.
    [/short side trip]

    After a few days she told me that it seemed like it was lacking power. There are probably space craft with less power than the 5.0 TDI. I took it for a spin, driving gently until warmed up. I was about 2 miles from where the US open is going on right now and pulled off the road to let some cars go by and then I rolled out by cracking the throttle followed by a smooth roll on. In a stunningly short period of time the vehicle was passing through 60mph, but with less drama than she might have been used to with the V8.

    I told her to calm down, and that the vehicle was just different.

    Yesterday she told me that she could barely get on the freeway, and that she now had an engine light. Huh? I know right about know some of you are like "POST YOUR F-ING SCANS!"

    Right. Here we go. I hooked up my VCDS and attempted an auto scan. The software tells me my car is not capable of doing such. News to me, since I can select the appropriate vehicle directly from the list. Any clues as to why I can't get an autoscan? My OBDII connector on my genuine Ross-Tech cord has always been touchy, and has to be held just so in order to work. shrug.

    So I manually went into the engine controller section and pulled the following:

    Friday,19,June,2015,20:16:51:15876
    VCDS Version: Release 14.10.2 (x64)
    www.deadsexyUweRoss-Tech.com

    Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
    Control Module Part Number: 070 906 016 CQ HW: 028 101 196 2
    Component and/or Version: V10 5,0L EDCG001AGMª9805
    Software Coding: 0060575
    Work Shop Code: WSC 23347 444 84359
    VCID: 61C303F8BB77AE29011-5140
    3 Faults Found:

    006482 - Turbocharger Control Module 1
    P1952 - 000 - Defective - Intermittent
    Freeze Frame:
    Fault Status: 00100000
    Fault Priority: 0
    Fault Frequency: 84
    Reset counter: 255
    Mileage: 188070 km
    Time Indication: 0

    Freeze Frame:
    RPM: 2058 /min
    Speed: 53.6 km/h
    Load: 14.5 %
    Bin. Bits: 00000000
    Bin. Bits: 00010000
    Absolute Pres.: 1132.2 mbar
    Absolute Pres.: 1040.4 mbar

    000665 - Boost Pressure Regulation
    P0299 - 000 - Control Range Not Reached - Intermittent
    Freeze Frame:
    Fault Status: 00110000
    Fault Priority: 0
    Fault Frequency: 1
    Reset counter: 255
    Mileage: 193030 km
    Time Indication: 0

    Freeze Frame:
    RPM: 2142 /min
    Speed: 54.7 km/h
    Load: 47.8 %
    Voltage: 13.76 V
    Bin. Bits: 00001000
    Absolute Pres.: 1897.2 mbar
    Absolute Pres.: 1387.2 mbar

    005226 - Diesel Particle Filter Bank 1
    P146A - 000 - Temperature Rise too Low - Intermittent
    Freeze Frame:
    Fault Status: 00110000
    Fault Priority: 0
    Fault Frequency: 1
    Reset counter: 255
    Mileage: 193250 km
    Time Indication: 0

    Freeze Frame:
    RPM: 630 /min
    Speed: 0.0 km/h
    (no units): 0.34
    (no units): 0.14
    (no units): 98.0
    Temperature: 9.9°C
    Duty Cycle: 0.0 %


    Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0

    Friday,19,June,2015,20:20:59:15876
    VCDS Version: Release 14.10.2 (x64)
    www.Ross-Tech.com

    Address 11: Engine II Labels: Redir Fail!
    Control Module Part Number: 070 906 016 CQ HW: 028 101 196 2
    Component and/or Version: V10 5,0L EDCG001AGSª9805
    Software Coding: 0060575
    Work Shop Code: WSC 23347 444 84359
    VCID: 61C303F8BB77AE29011-5140
    1 Fault Found:

    005227 - Diesel Particle Filter Bank 2
    P146B - 000 - Temperature Rise too Low - Intermittent
    Freeze Frame:
    Fault Status: 00110000
    Fault Priority: 0
    Fault Frequency: 1
    Reset counter: 255
    Mileage: 192798 km
    Time Indication: 0

    Freeze Frame:
    RPM: 588 /min
    Speed: 0.0 km/h
    (no units): 0.32
    (no units): -0.04
    (no units): 42.0
    Temperature: 8.1°C
    Duty Cycle: 15.4 %

    Do a bit of searching, which caused me to break out the Tums. "Your turbos are cooked mate. These V10 TDI engines eat them like candy" seems to be the most common response. But there are also a metric shit ton of responses indicating that dealerships will immediately sell a turbo + 'may as well do all of the following: [your kid didn't really need braces and your wife can go another few years with those boobs]. And given how often that doesn't solve the problem means dealers are all too happy to sodomize their victims, er, customers and then charge them again and again. Of course that guy paid $2500 to have his front LCAs done and I paid $300 for a pair of them. I also read about a guy who let the dealer change his turbos, kept the old ones and took them to be rebuilt at a turbo shop. That place told him they were in perfect order, and that they are extremely durable turbos. Have I mentioned that I loathe dealerships?

    Seems the turbo controllers can be a pain. The Ross-Tech (you may have heard of them) site says:
    [I]Possible Causes

    Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Turbo Charger Control Module 1 faulty
    Turbo Charger Control Module 1 faulty
    Turbo Charger faulty

    Possible Solutions

    Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Turbo Charger Control Module 1
    Check/Replace Turbo Charger Control Module 1
    Check/Replace Turbo Charger [/I

    I'm also reading where people have the controller linkage pop off. I cleared the codes above and we went out last night. The car is a friggin dog, and I've owned a 36hp bus.

    Got another code:
    Sunday,21,June,2015,10:03:17:15876
    VCDS Version: Release 14.10.2 (x64)
    www.Ross-Tech.com

    Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
    Control Module Part Number: 070 906 016 CQ HW: 028 101 196 2
    Component and/or Version: V10 5,0L EDCG001AGMª9805
    Software Coding: 0060575
    Work Shop Code: WSC 23347 444 84359
    VCID: 61C303F8BB77AE29011-5140
    1 Fault Found:

    006482 - Turbocharger Control Module 1
    P1952 - 000 - Defective - Intermittent
    Freeze Frame:
    Fault Status: 00100000
    Fault Priority: 0
    Fault Frequency: 7
    Reset counter: 255
    Mileage: 193917 km
    Time Indication: 0

    Freeze Frame:
    RPM: 1638 /min
    Speed: 47.6 km/h
    Load: 18.0 %
    Bin. Bits: 00000000
    Bin. Bits: 00010000
    Absolute Pres.: 1122.0 mbar
    Absolute Pres.: 1091.4 mbar


    Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0

    I crawled under the car to see if I could even locate the controllers, the connectors and the linkages. The controllers look brand new. There is a bit of oil on the left controller connector plug, but considering that the transmission valve body connectors spend their lives submerged in ATF I'm not convinced that is a reason.

    I cannot budge the linkages. I swear I read where some people had discovered a crunchy one and lubed it up and got it to work. Do you suppose they disconnect the controller end first? If I am under the car and have my woman turn the ignition on, should the controllers cycle? Is there another way to trigger them and cause them to move?

    The problem is intermittent. Given what I know about turbo lubrication, turbos don't "do" intermittent. Something that turns 180k rpm will tend to shit the bed once and for all in catastrophic fashion, not decide that it doesn't want to play and then be okay for a while.

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  3. #2
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    Quick update. I had my girlfriend start the vehicle while I checked for pressure leaks in the intercooler hoses up top. They swell up tight when the throttle comes up (so again, I'm getting boost, indicating that my turbos aren't locked up.

    I did noticed a ghetto patch job on a split in the right side hose, and by flexing it I can see the fabric exposed (and it probably leaks).

    I also crawled under the car while she tried various throttle settings. The right side controller moves fine, the left one looks like it wants to but the range of motion is severely limited. That is going to take me on some type of journey for sure.

  4. #3
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Hey Flaps,

    Happy Fathers Day Everyone.

    Sounds like the intake is plugged with carbon.

    If this happens It stops the boost from getting in the engine and when severe can plug the turbo's up.

    The rods can be cleaned and lubed on turbo chargers to free up....very common.

    Manually move them with long screwdriver back and fourth exercising them. ( spray with Kano sili Kroil )

    Chemical removal if found may get you through it if done very slowly or disassemble to clean.

    This situation is caused by a combination of the EGR, our shit fuel and extended use of synthetic oils causing blow by or over filled.


    Inspect for FOD!
    Drain intercoolers of oil and check for someone's time bomb RAG left in the tubes or in coolers.
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 06-21-2015 at 09:57 PM.
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  5. #4
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    Jack, thanks for the response.

    I spent my father's day just as imagined: lying on my back feeling screwed. I removed the decorative covers and went over every vacuum line, intercooler lines, etc. No glaring issues that i was hoping for. I read up on the N75 valve, which i still can't locate.

    I got back under the car to see if i would be able to disconnect the linkage to the left turbo. I can reach it with my fingers, but couldn't see the dreaded five cent clips that cost thousands to replace. The right side is easier to reach.

    Back to the left, I examined the electrical plug. As mentioned earlier, it had oil on it but i had disregarded it as unlikely. I can't disconnect it because the wires from the connector are hard up against an oil line banjo fitting for the turbo. The oil line would need to be removed first.

    I pulled the boot back and wiped out the oil. I felt the wires and the insulation is fine and none are broken. I did notice that a zip tie is used to fold the wire against the connector, since it otherwise would make the oil line not fit.

    At that point i gave up for the night and went in to read up.

    A while later my son needed to go to the drug store. I took the Treg and kept my foot out of it. A couple miles down the road i was explaining how it had no power and added some throttle to demonstrate. To my surprise it shoved pretty well.

    On the way home i tried a bit more and it had tons of power. In fact i came up to the last light still rolling at it turned green and i rolled it on. I'm still shocked by what happened next, as the rush of acceleration pushed us way past legal. My son was blown away. I ride liter bikes, own a porsche an as just had the 4.2 V8 touareg.

    I might still have an intermittent problem but one thing is for sure - my turbine aren't wheezed up.

    I read up on this thread

    Get a load of that controller when it is split open. That electric motor is what is commonly called a speed 400 (aka mabuchi 380). You can buy them in bulk for a few dollars each. WHAT THE F WERE THEY THINKING? That turbo hot side hits what, 1100 degrees?

    I'm not sure that even Chrysler has done that

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  7. #5
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Touaregs are strangely addictive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaps10 View Post
    I hooked up my VCDS and attempted an auto scan. The software tells me my car is not capable of doing such. News to me, since I can select the appropriate vehicle directly from the list. Any clues as to why I can't get an autoscan?
    What's the production date on the vehicle?

    I'm guessing you chose "7L,VW Touareg (12/2006 > 2011)" which would have VCDS try to Auto-Detect (by reading the Gateway Installation List) what control modules are present, but the vehicle in question is actually an early 2007 that has the older cluster that doesn't have a modern GVL.

    Please run "7L,VW Touareg (2003 > 11/2006)" and post the results; we should be able to tell for sure based on that.

    -Uwe-

    PS: This applies double to the Touareg, with the V10 TDI being the T'Reg equivalent of the W8.
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  8. #6
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    That flow chart is hilarious

    Edit: And you are correct about my vehicle choice from the menu.
    Last edited by Flaps10; 06-22-2015 at 05:35 PM.

  9. #7
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaps10 View Post
    That flow chart is hilarious
    It is 100% factual. Humor is a purely accidental side effect.

    Jason

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  11. #8
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    Speaking of the controllers...

    During my examination of the controllers over the weekend I had noticed two things about them. One, they appeared to be brand new. Two, they are Hella units which I assumed was OEM. They're not, but it would appear that if your controllers crap out VW wants to sell you a complete turbo. So people substitute the Hella.

    It's noteworthy because it explains why the connector for my left side controller can't be removed and cleaned because it rides hard against the turbo oil line banjo bolt. It also explains why my connector appears somewhat traumatized by its location. Since wiping the rubber boot out best as I could over the weekend we now have three modes of operation
    1) No issue and vehicle hauls ass
    2) No CEL light but no boost.
    3) CEL and limp mode.
    Currently operating at about 70% of the time in mode 2 and the rest split evenly between 1 and 3

    I'll snap a pic of the mess next time I'm under there. If I knew where the fasteners were on the controller I would remove it and that would make it easy to test the linkage to the turbo and also thoroughly clean and oil proof the connector - I'm thinking I'll pot the wires in high temp silicone and squeeze the boot back over it.

  12. #9
    Ross-Tech Employee Dana's Avatar
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    I was on an (unrelated, 2006 TDI with J500 turbo sender) call this morning and thought of you when I saw J724 notes in an old VW tech document. I can't paste the data here directly however they grouped these two:

    3.0L V6 CR (Engine Code CATA) likely 2009/2010 CAN CR TDI
    5.0L V10 TDI (Engine codes BKW, BLE, BWF)

    ..using J724 with notes MVB 034.2 is specified position and 034.3 is actual. Those, like actual and specified boost, should match each other but I believe you would need to use 01-Engine for one bank and then 11-Engine II for the other if you needed to log live data while driving.

  13. #10
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    Damn, I wish I understood a word of that.

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