e-Golf

No, he's just joking. The local dealers that know us actually like us. The ones that don't know us, don't care.

-Uwe-

Side note. SSP clarification, The 6 digit ones (890743 for example) are NAR and the 3 digit ones are RoW.

Bruce said:

Not available for sale in PA.

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There's two of them rusting away on the lot at Cherry Hill if you hold your nose and cross the bridge. (Orson Wells/War of the Worlds joke intentionally omitted) Taking a test drive to the Ross-Tech Research Park and back would be a decent pre-sale test of the range. If you want to be a bit more discreet, you can mount the laboratory equipment in my black race car trailer, put "Knight Industries" logos on the side, and I'll park down a side street with the ramp open and wait for your arrival.....

vreihen said:

Does anyone have a copy of the scheduled maintenance booklet for the eGolf? I'm curious what there is to do, other than rotate the tires and change the wiper blades? A cabin pollen filter? Washer/brake fluid? Maybe the whole purpose of that battery under the hood is so that the dealership mechanics can check the electrolyte level every 10,000 km?????

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This is a great question. one of the early adopters posting on a certain vortex site shared that they had sprung for a $700 three year maintenance option.
was not clear to me why that was a good idea.

There are a couple coolant loops, I am pretty sure, and brake fluid to change. with the regenerative braking, normal use brakes should last almost for ever.

I could ask, what does e-up maintance contains. From fellow EST-vwklub user.

I'm seriously wondering about the collectability factor of the eGolf in North America. It and the Golf-R are the only ones that come from Germany and not Mexico, and the production numbers and limited sales market might make it a rare collector's item down the road.....

Golf R's have historically held their value very well -- at least the ones with proper transmissions rather than dumb, stupid gearboxes.

But the e-Golf? I'm skeptical about it's long-term value, primarily due to the battery. Remember, lithium-ion cells lose capacity continuously even if you keep them at an optimal SOC (about 40%) and never cycle them. How much is a replacement battery pack going to cost 5-10 years from now?

E-up, but as you see there is also e-golf on cover.

Owner says that most expensive service in 5 years is 37Euros.

Uwe said:

How much is a replacement battery pack going to cost 5-10 years from now?

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If Moore's Law can be applied to batteries, a replacement battery pack in 10 years should be $500 and have a 480 mile range.

Seriously though, I expect continued research and expansion of battery storage technology to drive the prices down significantly before they will need replacement. EnvironMENTAList tree-hugger pollution logic aside (since I'm not one and understand the "nickel footprint" from building these batteries), the cost per mile to operate this car is supposedly half of what it costs to run a gas-powered vehicle (factoring in energy charges plus maintenance). If you have time to kill, every VW and Nissan dealership that sells EV's has a free (as in beer) public charging station where you can leech power for free. No energy charges and minimal required maintenances versus liquid fuel, scheduled oil/filter/plug changes, the ever-ticking time bomb of a VW timing belt. If you add up the cost savings, that replacement battery pack 10 years down the road will look like a bargain even at today's prices.

Making an argument that the battery pack aging out is a reason not to buy one of these cars is akin to me saying that I'd never own a TDI because the timing belt needs to be changed every few years.....

Uh.. A timing belt job, even done at the dealer, is a LOT cheaper than one of these batteries!

Then there's also the prospect of the battery being bricked prematurely if the car sits without being plugged in. Several Tesla Roadster owners have encountered this little issue and Tesla basically said: "Sucks to be you, a new battery will be $40k please."

That whole issue really makes me wonder what the average draw is (kWh/month) if you buy one of these cars and just leave it plugged in (but don't actually drive it).

Back on subject: Anyone know what VW's warranty is with respect to the battery?

What if I buy an e-Golf, drive it home from NJ, park it and don't plug it in. How long until the battery is bricked, and how much does a replacement cost today?

Uwe said:

Back on subject: Anyone know what VW's warranty is with respect to the battery?

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Per this press review article:

http://the-gadgeteer.com/2014/08/31/volkswagen-2015-egolf-test-drive/

* A roadside assistance plan that will tow your dead battery vehicle to a charging point, plus pay for taxi or transportation fees of the owner

* Standard 3 year 36,000 mile new car warranty plus 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty

* Additional 100,000 miles 8 year battery warranty against 70 percent capacity

* 3 year roadside assistance and 1 year scheduled maintenance for free

That battery warranty sounds pretty generous to me. The only better one is what I believe Daimler is doing with their Smart EV, where they lease the battery to you.....

A free tow to a charging point is worthless if the battery won't accept a charge.

I'm hoping that's the reason VW has that 12V battery -- to allow them to "disconnect" (via electronics) the HV (traction) battery when the 'Ignition' is off, to minimize the chance of bricking the HV battery.

I saw this article yesterday:

http://insideevs.com/volkswagen-follows-nissan-decides-wo-go-air-cooling-e-golf/

The liquid-cooled lithium-ion battery accounts for 701 pounds of the e-Golf model’s 3090-pound curb weight. It is composed of a total of 264 individual prismatic cells, which are integrated into 27 modules (each with six or twelve cells). Collectively, the cells have a nominal rating of 323 volts, with an overall capacity of 24.2 kWh. A battery management controller (BMC) performs diagnosis and monitoring functions and also regulates the temperature balance in the battery junction controller (the interface to the motor’s energy supply). When the car is not in use or in the event of a collision, power from the battery is automatically cut off.

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The rest of the article is about their change of plans with the battery pack to skip liquid-cooling the batteries and going air-cooled. Check out the comment section at the end, where several people point out Nissan's problems from making the same decision.

Do you think there's enough room in the trunk for 27 lead-acid AGM car batteries wired in series?????

So this fugly thing is the e-Golf's competition?



And I though Chris Bangle's designs were bad.

vreihen said:

I saw this article yesterday:

http://insideevs.com/volkswagen-follows-nissan-decides-wo-go-air-cooling-e-golf/

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That article also claims that they're using 264 cells with 25Ah per cell. The math on that adds up, at a nominal 3.7v per cell, we get 24.42 kWh of nominal capacity. But I also take it to mean that unlike Tesla, they're not using standard form-factor (18650 being the most common) cells, since those would be closer to 2.5 -3.1 Ah per cell.

Here's a picture of the Leaf's battery



Air-Cooled? Looks like not-cooled to me.

Uwe said:

Air-Cooled? Looks like not-cooled to me.

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If the assembly video that I posted above shows the battery being installed at 5:11 time stamp, then VW one-upped Nissan (in a BAD way) by insulating the battery pack!

To that fugly thing's credit, the folks in Bavaria chose to use refrigerant-cooled batteries:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=690781

Battery cooling with refrigerant
BMW i uses the air-conditioning system's refrigerant to cool the high-voltage battery directly. This coolant offers maximum refrigerating efficiency in comparison to water or air-cooling and no additional components such as fans or pumps are needed, reducing weight and installation space. The heat for preconditioning in cold temperatures is powered directly from the electricity network, if the vehicle is connected to the wallbox.

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What a shame that they hid their advanced engineering under such a hideous shell..... ;(

Uwe said:

So this fugly thing is the e-Golf's competition?

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I thought you liked motorcycles? This would be like two of them fused together:



155/70 R19 84Q
175/60 R19 86Q
155/60 R20 80Q
175/55 R20 85Q

Hmm, somehow those tire sizes strike me as not entirely in character with "The Ultimate Driving Machine".

Uwe said:

Hmm, somehow those tire sizes strike me as not entirely in character with "The Ultimate Driving Machine".

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Yes, but they certainly make it easier to push when the batteries run out.....