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Thread: Is the dealer lying to me?

  1. #51
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    The car is now back at the dealers again for a 5th time. The picture below is a record of the serial number and other details of the second replacement G273 interior monitoring sensor module that was fitted, for reference, in case it gets changed again...




    I can now understand what dubTECH is saying about VAG techs. Having spoken to the tech again this morning they are clearly constrained by the diagnostic GFF procedures and tools they are told to follow / use. It is the machine that apparently also does any wiring checks as part of the procedure so I can only really deduce from this that it is probably unlikely that a Digital Multi-Meter goes anywhere near the car to manually check wires for continuity/voltage/resistance. The tech said that there were no software version updates showing for my BCM (which also confirms that the other dealer was lying when they said they had performed software updates on the BCM). He did say however that there are sometimes other software versions available that don't normally show up but which they can download and install if they are given access to them and authorisation by SEAT to use them. He is going to be speaking to the techs at SEAT so maybe they will come up with some options / solutions. I guess we shall see in due course.

    I have requested the GFF printouts this time so hopefully I will at least get to see exactly what is/was done.

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  3. #52
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    Gary,

    I passed on the details to a friend, so I'm waiting to see what he comes back with.

    The "techs" are not constrained to the use of ODIS, it is merely a tool with a test plan for idiots who do not understand vehicle systems and diagnostic procedures. They can use manual tools and over ride the values if they so wish.

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  5. #53
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    Thanks dubTECH.

    No word from the dealer yet so I'm not sure if that is good news in that they are spending the time fault finding and trying different things out (new BCM, software updates etc.), or bad news in that they've just been standing around for days scratching their heads. I guess I'll ring them tomorrow and find out what the progress is.

    To add insult to injury, on the way to the dealers on Monday morning the car in front tried to kill me by firing a high velocity stone at my windscreen which left a big conical chip right in the centre of the drivers view which is just my luck at the moment. So that's something else I am going to have to sort out when I get the car back

  6. #54
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    Well it appears to have been the latter (head scratching) and it looks like my car will be getting a new BCM. The dealer told me today that despite the tech having been in discussion with the techs at SEAT HQ, they haven't yet managed to resolve the fault and so have now ordered a new BCM on the assumption that my current one may be faulty in some way. Based on my previous posts it will be interesting to see what the model and software version is. At 450 GBP, all I can say is that I'm glad it's not me who's going to be paying for it.

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  8. #55
    Ross-Tech Employee Jef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubTECH View Post
    The "techs" are not constrained to the use of ODIS, it is merely a tool with a test plan for idiots who do not understand vehicle systems and diagnostic procedures. They can use manual tools and over ride the values if they so wish.
    When I was at the dealer and misGFF was the ruling queen of bad diagnostics, we had to do what it said the first time around. But when the car would return with the same issue, then we were allowed repair the vehicle. I replaced a few ECMs that I know were good. Flip side, I had a few good test ECMs. Thank you misGFF for those gifts.
    Jef
    Ross Tech Support Team, Alpha Squad
    Auto-Scan, learn it, love it, live it... then check the fuses.

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  10. #56
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    The dealer phoned today to let me know their parts delivery which included my new BCM didn't arrive today as expected so it will be next week until there is any further progress.

    I took the opportunity to ask for the part number of the newly ordered BCM and was told it was 5K0937087AC (Z19). So the new BCM is a different part number to the 5K0937087R currently in my car. I'm not at home at the moment so I can't easily do a cross-reference of that number in the parts catalogue but a quick Google seems to suggest that it's a "PQ35 H+" BCM whereas my current one is a "PQ35 H". Logic suggests that a suffix of "+" means a newer revision BCM.

    If the fault was down to buggy software in the 5K0937087R then hopefully that will be eliminated with different hardware which I'm sure will also have different software (hopefully without other bugs in). Fingers and toes are all crossed.

    I guess I'll find out if we're still at square one when it's been fitted next week.

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  12. #57
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    OK, so I've now done some comprehensive digging around in the parts catalogue and found that the 5K0937087AC (Z19) BCM is a supersession of 5K0937087S (Z0J) which is the 6th one down in the table I put in post #48 (model PR-8SK). I would like to think/hope that the dealer has ordered a new BCM based on my VIN so on that assumption it suggests that my car should have had a 5K0937087S BCM from the factory and not a 5K0937087R. It makes you wonder sometimes if they just stick on what they can find in the parts bin at the time.

    I am still none the wiser as to why there are so many different versions of the 5K0937087 BCM and whether the different suffix letters denote a physical hardware difference or just different software / default configuration.

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  14. #58
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryM View Post
    I am still none the wiser as to why there are so many different versions of the 5K0937087 BCM and whether the different suffix letters denote a physical hardware difference or just different software / default configuration.
    The part number it's stocked and sold by is the Software part number. In the case of the BCM in your scans, it's identical to the hardware part number, but that's certainly not always the case with control modules.

    Be sure to post up a scan of your car when you get it back, regardless whether the problem is fixed or not.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  15. #59
    Verified VCDS User GaryM's Avatar
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    I finally got my car back again today after a week and a half at the dealers and the interior monitoring sensor appears to be working as expected. Movement inside the car now sets off the alarm and there are no fault codes being returned from a scan. I will give it a couple of days before I'll be able to say for certain that the problem has definitely been cured after 5 attempts to do so.

    It turns out that they didn't end up fitting the replacement BCM after having ordering one but instead ordered and fitted another G273 sensor module. What they actually did was a bit vague because the tech who did the work wasn't there when I turned up to collect the car but the service advisor said they had found that the replacement G273 fitted last time was actually faulty. It's a little worrying because it previously already had two replacement G273 modules and the third new one now fitted has a serial number that is only 4 digits away from the previous one so it must be from the same batch (see picture of the latest one below). I just hope there isn't some kind of inherent design fault with these modules that mean it will just end up going faulty again. I guess only time will tell but for now it seems that the old saying of 3rd time lucky may be end up having some truth to it.




    Below is a scan that I did as soon as I got the car home showing that a 5K0937087R BCM is still fitted and that it still has the same 0064 software version. There is no sign of any harness repair yellow wiring to the G273 module either so it does look like just replacing that module with a non-faulty one appears to have resolved the issue (fingers crossed).

    Code:
    Wednesday,22,April,2015,17:57:42:55895
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
    VCDS Version: 14.10.2.0 (x64)
    Data version: 20150311
    www.Ross-Tech.com
    
    
    VIN: VSSZZZ1PZCRXXXXXX   License Plate: 
    Mileage: 29690km-18448mi   Repair Order: 
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Chassis Type: 1P (7N0)
    Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 10 15 16 17 19 25 2E 37 42 44 46 52 55 56 62
              72
    
    VIN: VSSZZZ1PZCRXXXXXX   Mileage: 29690km-18448miles
    
    01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
    02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
    03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
    04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
    08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
    09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
    10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
    15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
    16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
    17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
    19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
    25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
    2E-Media Player 3 -- Status: OK 0000
    37-Navigation -- Status: OK 0000
    42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
    44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
    46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
    52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
    55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
    56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
    62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
    72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
     
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine (CEG)       Labels: 03L-906-022-CBA.clb
       Part No SW: 03L 906 022 TP    HW: 03L 906 022 GP
       Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000AG  5763  
       Revision: 13H14---    Serial number:               
       Coding: 0000078
       Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
       VCID: 0603B34371FD7A11543-8053
    
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.lbl
       Part No SW: 02E 300 057 N    HW: 02E 927 770 AL
       Component: GSG DSG AG6     512 3101  
       Revision: 05551213    Serial number: 00001111122064
       Coding: 0000020
       Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
       VCID: 2447C9CBE701A8012A7-8071
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels: 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
       Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 BJ    HW: 1K0 907 379 BJ
       Component: ESP MK60EC1   H31 0121  
       Revision: 00H31001    
       Coding: 163B6012092600FD680C06E4901A0082350800
       Shop #: WSC 04941 000 00000
       VCID: 7BF5D2B7FA3F37F93BD-802E
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels: 5K0-907-044.clb
       Part No SW: 5P0 907 044 S    HW: 5P0 907 044 S
       Component: Climatronic   H18 0804  
       Revision: 00001001    
       Coding: 0000000002
       Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatronic A01010
       ROD: EV_ClimaAutoBasis_SE35.rod
       VCID: 408F655BDB5994212EF-8015
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels: 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 937 087 R    HW: 5K0 937 087 R
       Component: BCM PQ35 H    021 0064  
       Revision: BE021001    
       Coding: 46180A3E8025B0C042080080950089C442550008727D8560008040000040
       Shop #: WSC 54559 001 1048576
       VCID: 4487694BC74188010A7-8011
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1P0 955 119 D
       Component: Wischer 24111  26  0611 
       Coding: 00DB90
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 1P0 955 559 A    HW: 1P0 955 559 A  Labels: 1P0-955-559.CLB
       Component: REGENLICHTSEN  H04 0003 
       Coding: 02542E
    
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1P0 951 171 A
       Component: Innenraumuebe  010 4974 
       Coding: 000000
    
       Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
       Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H05 1501 
       Coding: 000000
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446)       Labels: 3C8-919-475.clb
       Part No SW: 5P0 919 475 C    HW: 8P0 919 475 N
       Component: PARKHILFE 8K  H08 0008  
       Revision: --------    Serial number: 12561133903563
       Coding: 100104
       Shop #: WSC 04941 000 00000
       VCID: 3B7512B7BABFF7F97BD-806E
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 5N0-959-655.lbl
       Part No SW: 5N0 959 655 R    HW: 5N0 959 655 R
       Component: J234__A0E VW10 HI   1918  
       Revision: 23016000    Serial number: 003K0PPTCX2K  
       Coding: 0012357
       Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
       VCID: 4C97416B2F114041C27-8019
    
       Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MTS610773401 
    
       Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MTS643573401 
    
       Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6351HTS66QJC0AKR 
    
       Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6361HTS6UVFA0AKJ 
    
       Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 00000000000000000
    
       Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 00000000000000000
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels: 5K0-953-569.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 953 521 AT    HW: 5K0 953 569 B
       Component: LENKS.MODUL   014 0140  
       Revision: FF010040    Serial number: 20111207200300
       Coding: 189A140002
       Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_SMLSNGVOLWSXS A01004
       ROD: EV_SMLSNGVOLWS.rod
       VCID: 7EF3DBA3E12D22D11C3-802B
    
       Multi Function Steering Wheel Control Module: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 1P0 959 538 B    HW: 1P0 959 538 B  Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
       Component: E221__MFL-TAP  H02 0102 
       Coding: E30000
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb
       Part No SW: 1P0 920 950 K    HW: 1P0 920 950 K
       Component: KOMBI         H05 0607  
       Serial number: 00000000000000
       Coding: 410F01
       Shop #: WSC 131071 1023 2097151
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04114
       ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_SE25.rod
       VCID: 3561048F949B21898D9-8060
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels: 7N0-907-530-V2.clb
       Part No SW: 7N0 907 530 M    HW: 1K0 907 951 
       Component: J533  Gateway H42 1623  
       Revision:   H42       Serial number: 281111F1000312
       Coding: 350203
       Shop #: WSC 04941 000 00000
       VCID: 3A7B17B3B585CEF160B-806F
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
       Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234 
       Component: IMMO          H05 0607  
       Serial number:               
       Coding: 000000
       Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
       ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03009
       ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_SE25.rod
       VCID: 6ADBE7F38DA5BE71D0B-803F
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 2E: Media Player 3 (J650)       Labels: 5N0-035-342.lbl
       Part No SW: 5N0 035 342 E    HW: 5N0 035 342 E
       Component: SG EXT.PLAYER H13 0240  
       Revision: A1001003    Serial number: 7661443894    
       Coding: 010000
       Shop #: WSC 04941 000 00000
       VCID: 2959D8FF40237569191-807C
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 37: Navigation (J794)       Labels: 1K0-035-27x-37.clb
       Part No SW: 5P0 035 191 G    HW: 5P0 035 191 G
       Component: RNS315-EU   H35 0263  
       Serial number: SEZAZ2L9157843
       Coding: 040004010402000000000002
       Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_RNS315EUV2UDS A01004
       ROD: EV_RNS315EUV2UDS.rod
       VCID: 2F6D36E776C71B59C75-807A
    
       Data medium: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3AA 919 866 
       Component: EUR_W_0038  0038 
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels: 3C0-959-70X-GEN4.clb
       Part No SW: 3C8 959 701     HW: 3C0 959 793 C
       Component: TUER-SG FT    002 0508  
       Revision: 12110009    Serial number: 0003506013
       Coding: 0012B0
       Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_TSGFPQ35BRFVW46X A04001
       ROD: EV_TSGFPQ35BRFVW46X.rod
       VCID: 6DD1ECEFBC4BA949B59-8038
    
       Slave Driver: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 3C0 959 704 E    HW: 3C0 959 794 E
       Component: J389__TSG-HR  007 1501 
       Serial number: 00000006219061      
       Coding: 000290
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
       Part No: 1K0 909 144 N
       Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 142    3301  
       Revision: 00H22000    
       Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
       VCID: 3561048F5C9B21898D9-8060
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387)       Labels: 3C0-959-70X-GEN4.clb
       Part No SW: 3C8 959 702     HW: 3C0 959 792 C
       Component: TUER-SG BT    002 0508  
       Revision: 14110009    Serial number: 0003506882
       Coding: 0012B0
       Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
       ASAM Dataset: EV_TSGBPQ35BRFVW46X A04001
       ROD: EV_TSGBPQ35BRFVW46X.rod
       VCID: 6ED3EBE3B14D52518C3-803B
    
       Slave Passenger: 
       Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 3C0 959 703 E    HW: 3C0 959 795 E
       Component: J388__TSG-HL  007 1501 
       Serial number: 00000006236000      
       Coding: 000290
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 5M0-907-357-V2.lbl
       Part No SW: 5M0 907 357 C    HW: 5M0 907 357 C
       Component: AFS-Steuergeraet    0148  
       Revision: 00H04000    Serial number:               
       Coding: 2557189
       Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
       VCID: 3467398B57E13881BA7-8061
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 7L6 941 329 C
       Component: AFS-Lst.-Modul l    0004  
       Coding: 00000039
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 7L6 941 329 C
       Component: AFS-Lst.-Modul r    0004  
       Coding: 00000039
    
    No fault code found.
    
    End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:41)--------------------------

    This is the first clear scan I've ever had without needing to clear any stored fault codes myself first.

    Unfortunately I realised after I'd driven away from the dealer that I'd forgotten to ask for the GFF printouts I'd requested the tech to do. So I don't know what procedures the tech actually carried out which would have been useful to see.
    Last edited by GaryM; 04-22-2015 at 02:51 PM.

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