Rebuilt 2008 Caddy Van: Radiator Fan Issues

senna1 said:

Hi.
Can you explain more regarding ecu coding, if it's different to ecu coding skc, i had the same issue with this vehicle with the old ECU. something is grounding the fan, like a driver in the ecu is stuck, but i cant see two ecu's being at fault, more like wiring fault,

Click to expand...

Use manual / WIKI / comparing to other cars to code it. This kind of fan has power / ground supplied to it at all times, the speed is controlled by small circuit board on the motor based on signal from ECU, most likely PWM. Also, see if you can change fan speed with VCDS outputs control (again read manual) and / or looking at data for fan specified / actual readings.

BR, Andy

senna1 said:

VIN: WV1ZZZ2KZ8X118552 License Plate: BF08 TVD
Mileage: 78470km-48758mi Repair Order: Dave abs coding

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Chassis Type: 2K (1K0)
Scan: 01 03 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 46 52 56

VIN: WV1ZZZ2KZ8X118552 Mileage: 78470km-48758miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 03G-906-021-BLS.clb
Part No SW: 03G 906 021 PD HW: 03G 906 021 CG
Component: R4 1,9L EDC 000SG 2387
Revision: --H07--- Serial number: VWX7Z0H13NB033
Coding: 0000071
Shop #: WSC 66565 257 00032
VCID: 70EFFCFA631751A19E0-8025

5 Faults Found:
005685 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1635 - 000 - Missing Message from A/C Controller
[/code]

Click to expand...

If that vehicle wasn't born with Climate Control (Climatronic) I would correct that position of the 01-Engine coding.

On my 2005 Audi A3 3.2 parts car, if I turned on the ignition, the fan would wind up to a fiarly high speed, ONLY If the earth inside the scuttle panel from the ECU loom was off ( the one in the bottom of the void, about 2/3 across towards the passenger side on my RHD car). The second I put it back on, the fan would wind back down and stop.

Dunno if that helps - it might be a red herring, but it's a similar thing.

roth said:

Use manual / WIKI / comparing to other cars to code it. This kind of fan has power / ground supplied to it at all times, the speed is controlled by small circuit board on the motor based on signal from ECU, most likely PWM. Also, see if you can change fan speed with VCDS outputs control (again read manual) and / or looking at data for fan specified / actual readings.

BR, Andy

Click to expand...

Hi Andy.
Thanks for the info, i will have a look on the wiki to see how to code the ecu, As Dana also say about coding engine ecu 01 first, The Pdf i have for the wiring diagram list 3 systems, one inc a thermo switch to activate the fan through the ecu, But the thermo switch list 3 pins (wires ) which we dont have only a outlet temp sensor on the thermostat housing which i think means this van has the variable speed control type system connected to the ecu j623, Will see if i can change fan speed in output test,

I have since found out the wiring loom had been hacked in the front end which does not help,, i had on another post fuel gauge problem 2, with this van, which i fixed ,, wires missing in the harness, I'm going to trace all 4 wires from the fan connector and if no joy then try code the ecu, although the same fault was there with the previous ecu but no code regarding A/C, The variable type fan control lists a J293 Radiator fan control unit .

I have some images of the unit which list two types the one looks like a small module, the other looks like a fan connector, i cant see any on this van or the other vans we have 8 in total, but they are older approx 06, some tdi, some sdi, but 3 have the outlet temp sensor setup and no control unit in sight per empty engine bay, unless it's in the interior, we only have the large black connector with the 4 wires, heavy red + Heavy brown - loom side thin GN wire, & a Bl/Rd do you know were this control unit is that is listed on the wiring diagram,
you say the speed is controlled by a small circuit board on the Fan motor based on ecu signal is the control unit,
Will see if i can change fan speed in output test, Also i have fixed the Outside air temp problem which may of been linked to the fan problem,

NZDubNurd said:

On my 2005 Audi A3 3.2 parts car, if I turned on the ignition, the fan would wind up to a fiarly high speed, ONLY If the earth inside the scuttle panel from the ECU loom was off ( the one in the bottom of the void, about 2/3 across towards the passenger side on my RHD car). The second I put it back on, the fan would wind back down and stop.

Dunno if that helps - it might be a red herring, but it's a similar thing.

Click to expand...

Ok Thanks i have found the fan main earth just back behind the headlamp N/S, It stop when i remove the earth as you would expect, also same thing if i remove the fuse, it is like it is grounded by the ecu all the time, or maybe the car that this ecu came from (second hand ) had air con and the ecu is looking for it or a fault to that and runs the fan continously.
It seems like wiring fault or ecu?

Dana said:

If that vehicle wasn't born with Climate Control (Climatronic) I would correct that position of the 01-Engine coding.

Click to expand...

Thanks Dana.
As soon as i have exhausted the wiring is not at fault will look into it, the Fan worked the same with the other ecu with skc code problems That is why it was changed with cluster unit and key etc, but no A/c fault listed. as shown on the older autoscan. and yes this van Never had aircon fitted.
And run one large Radiator Fan.

Your PR sticker would help as the type of fan might be indicated there. I'd do it BEFORE tracing the wiring.


BR, Andy

roth said:

Your PR sticker would help as the type of fan might be indicated there. I'd do it BEFORE tracing the wiring.

BR, Andy

Click to expand...

Hi
The label is not on the van, I did find a document with PR CODE of PR 1C if that tells you anything.
I tried to slow the fan in output test but as the fan was already running i did not want to press activate just incase it damaged anything,, here is a small log of info from MVB of fan and log of A/C. The wiring check would be easier if i new 100% what fan control was on here, I have eliminated the one out of 3, and the other two,, One has one & two speed using radiator fan thermal switch 3 pin and a two pin switch depending on what speed, with j329 relay, & fuse sb24 , no fan controller shown just a N235 protection resistor, then to ecu. and shows one fan, ours has one fan,
Do you know if the thermo type fan switch, F18 is located in the same place as the G83 outlet temp sensor, if it is in the same location this could be our fan control type thermo to ecu no controller which i cant find?

The othe system list Variable radiator fan control from 2007, which i think ours maybe except i cant find any controller j293. this diagram has the same relay same fuse sb24 as the previous system but is linked to the controller then to ecu using G83 outlet temp sensor.The G83 shows no wire colours only linked to ecu two pins. The fan just has a large black connector which the other vans here also have they, have no air con, but some use different fan control as some have G83 some not. and some twin fans but no other connector as the diagram disc i have shows to types of controllers one like a small module with to separate plugs for pins, the other looks like a small connector linked to the fan and that one shows it by the fan-fans. I'm begining to think it is not a wiring fault, maybe a controller if it has one,, ecu problem regarding A/C 005685 p1635 missing message from A/C controller which the van does not have any A/C. problem is how do you code it , also i noticed yesterday the oil level/temp sensor has a intermittent Dtc, whether this may cause the fan to run. will have a look at that, I did trace the 4 main wires at the fan connector heavy Red + Bttery etc, Heavy brown earth 642 to location, thin yl/vi to ecu, and Bl/rd to sb24 fuse via relay,

Saturday,14,March,2015,22:15:25:46146
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 14.10.1.1 (x64)
Data version: 20150130


VIN: License Plate: BF08TVD
Mileage: Repair Order: Dave


Address 01: Engine (03G 906 021 PD)

22:15:11 Group 064: Engine Cooling
8.1*C Coolant Temperature (G62)
9.0*C Coolant Temp. Cooler Outlet
87.3 % Coolant Fan 1 Duty Cycle

Saturday,14,March,2015,22:13:17:46146
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 14.10.1.1 (x64)
Data version: 20150130


VIN: License Plate: BF08TVD
Mileage: Repair Order: Dave



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine (03G 906 021 PD)

22:12:37 Group 063: Engine Cooling (Air Conditioner)
20.18 bar Refrigerant Pressure
0.0 Nm Compressor Load Torque
Cooling Requirement
16.0 Air Conditioner Shut-Off Status

Jack@European_Parts said:

I would be looking at two things.

00779 - Outside Air Temp Sensor (G17)
010 - Open or Short to Plus <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

This bothers me because it could think that the temp is high causing a trigger through messages on CAN from cluster 0x17 to 0x08 heater/ac via 0x19 gateway.
Please review the temp value being reported in advanced measuring blocks in 0x17 and 0x08

And

I would want to solve the gateway issues because it isn't seeing the engine ecu.

The same thing will trigger a fan........ say if stuck in 85 programming mode.

I want you to take a twisted pair and overlay around the gateway from 0x01 engine to ac/heater 0x08 for CAN High/Low.

What does the 125 series blocks say for COM?

If unfamiliar with the fans and where they intersect you could review the WD and take a tone generator to follow the tracks to the respective modules in question.

Click to expand...

Jack i fixed the oat Sensor it was linked to a fuel gauge problem shares the same earth,

I still think an SVM session maybe a good idea if a valid similar config can't be established.

Then repair what is needed.

When things are mix matched or coded incorrectly.......... it can create DTC's and symptoms which are a ghost and not present or restricting other functions interfering with a proper diagnostic path.

I would recommend contacting the dealers parts department with VIN #........ and get clarity on every module in every system of the scan, to verify they are the correct software version and part #.

Jack@European_Parts said:

I still think an SVM session maybe a good idea if a valid similar config can't be established.

Then repair what is needed.



When things are mix matched or coded incorrectly.......... it can create DTC's and symptoms which are a ghost and not present or restricting other functions interfering with a proper diagnostic path.

I would recommend contacting the dealers parts department with VIN #........ and get clarity on every module in every system of the scan, to verify they are the correct software version and part #.

Click to expand...

Jack.
Ok, Are you saying do a autoscan and see if the parts dealer can say if all modules correct for this ecu, what is SVM stand for, we had the same issue with the old ecu that was fitted, not original unit, but this had to be changed because of skc codes, replacement ecu with cluster and key now have the fan problem same as other ecu, I have traced all the fan wires and did a back to back test with another van here 2006, problem van is 08. and from the fan connector to sb24 fan fuse and relay, has the same figures for ignition on and off test, & continuity match each other so i think it is a ecu related problem.

Correct have the module part numbers verified first because this costs only time.

SVM = Software Version Management ( Online sever to config modules via the factory scan tool to matched build )

roth said:

Use manual / WIKI / comparing to other cars to code it. This kind of fan has power / ground supplied to it at all times, the speed is controlled by small circuit board on the motor based on signal from ECU, most likely PWM. Also, see if you can change fan speed with VCDS outputs control (again read manual) and / or looking at data for fan specified / actual readings.

BR, Andy

Click to expand...

Hi Andy
Regarding the coding of the ecu to correct the fan running continuously, What am i trying to achieve, To stop the fan running, I had a look on the wiki and the long coding seemed to make more sense as it gives you options, i assume to enable or disable features and example on wiki screenshot shows fans, but looking at this option does that only enable a fan in other words if disabled it would not run at all,, Then looking at the earlier screen shot of coding Ecu 01 engine it has a drop down menu or balloon with options in there, a bit like when you code a Abs module bosch, which only listed information for ABS & Airbag with or with out Data bus, and transmission manual/auto. I can see on my autoscan the ecu 01 is listed as power train Data Bus so can i assume my Abs and Airbag is with Data Bus,

Jack@European_Parts said:

Correct have the module part numbers verified first because this costs only time.

SVM = Software Version Management ( Online sever to config modules via the factory scan tool to matched build )

Click to expand...

This is getting deeper and deeper, the only parts as far as i know That Have been changed is the Engine Ecu and Instrument cluster. The Airbag module will be replaced soon as it has crash data, other than that no other modules are showing any problems, So if i understand you correctly, you say the idea is to show the Parts dealer a Full Auto scan to see if the ecu is compatable with our vans Vin number type and onboard modules of the van,

Hi Andy
Just looked on procedures on wiki, To Correct the fan running problem would i use for example group 08 HVAC, to recode the ecu, If i can find the correct group and information for the Vw Caddy,

senna1 said:

Hi Andy
Just looked on procedures on wiki, To Correct the fan running problem would i use for example group 08 HVAC, to recode the ecu, If i can find the correct group and information for the Vw Caddy,

Click to expand...

1. I would try to get PRs to see what options the van came out with.
2. I would check / compare coding to options installed.
3. I would check the fan control in MVBs of engine.
4. I would check the fan circuit, again you will need PRs to see which one you have or use the wire color and number to determine that.

Of course you can start with MVBs or wire checking.

BR, ANdy

roth said:

1. I would try to get PRs to see what options the van came out with.
2. I would check / compare coding to options installed.
3. I would check the fan control in MVBs of engine.
4. I would check the fan circuit, again you will need PRs to see which one you have or use the wire color and number to determine that.

Of course you can start with MVBs or wire checking.

BR, ANdy

Click to expand...

Hi
I have looked at all 3 fan wiring diagram systems, we have built a few of these vans some from shells and only had one with A/C.
I think we have the thermo switch type setup controlled at the ecu,
I will ask at a Dealership for PR codes,, with the vehicle registration and original vin number that is on the shell as the log shows the one in the present ecu.

You say you would check the fan control in MVB of engine, i will have a look again at that, i tried as i said in last message output test i could not activate as the fan was already running, all i saw in MVB was the duty cycle of the fan, what else is in there, as in log group 64, any idea what group i should be looking in for fan control. When it comes to coding is it long coding or regular coding.

Saturday,14,March,2015,22:15:25:46146
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 14.10.1.1 (x64)
Data version: 20150130


VIN: License Plate: BF08TVD
Mileage: Repair Order: Dave


Address 01: Engine (03G 906 021 PD)

22:15:11 Group 064: Engine Cooling
8.1*C Coolant Temperature (G62)
9.0*C Coolant Temp. Cooler Outlet
87.3 % Coolant Fan 1 Duty Cycle

OK, coding 71 is for Caddy with AC and 5-speed manual transmission. I think that ECM will look for communication from AC controller. Do you have AC / 5 sd manual trans???

Andy

roth said:

OK, coding 71 is for Caddy with AC and 5-speed manual transmission. I think that ECM will look for communication from AC controller. Do you have AC / 5 sd manual trans???

Andy

Click to expand...

This van never had Any A/C and is BLS engine code with manual gearbox, i think 5 speed. and we cant find any controller j293. for A/C and radiator fan control.

senna1 said:

This van never had Any A/C and is BLS engine code with manual gearbox, i think 5 speed.

Click to expand...

Yes but the ECM donor might have one, check MVB 125 / 126 for CAN AC bus.

The HD part number points to BSU but I might be wrong on this. OK, for no AC / 5 speed manual / FWD try 000031

BR, Andy