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Thread: How to emergency Regen while sitting

  1. #81
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    The exhaust flap will not interfere with a DPF regen. it will cause a check engine ( MIL) light.
    It absolutely will.............


    Quote of SSP.....
    The Exhaust Throttle Valve has the following tasks:

    In certain operating conditions, a differential
    pressure is generated between the NOx storage
    catalyst and the turbocharger.
    This increase in pressure helps with Low Pressure
    EGR return.

    Effect of Failure:

    If the Throttle Valve Control Module fails, the correct
    regulation of exhaust gas recirculation rate is not
    possible.
    Regeneration of the NOx storage catalyst
    does not take place.

    Hence DPF MIL........

    Was really nice of you to offer that valve though..........
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 03-08-2015 at 06:59 PM.

  2. #82
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    No disrespect intended, but I did have my exhaust flap lock up, had errors for stuck open and stuck closed. and the check engine light.

    I ordered a new one, (my choice, I know I probably could have removed, and cleaned and lubed and pressed on...)

    also did some research in the Self Study Program 826803 2.0 Liter TDI Common Rail BIN5 ULEV Engine which led me to understand that the exhaust flap works to reduce flow associated with NOX cats, and not the DPF It is used to regulate EGR flow.

    the input throttle valve J338 and Throttle position sensor G69 is associated with DPF regen and with EGR control. malfunction in either will prevent DPF active regen or EGR.

    based on my understanding, as I said, I drove just shy of 1000 miles with a locked up exhaust flap, MIL lit, and errors for exhaust flap stuck open and stuck closed. ( I can post the specific errors if needed, on my other computer) I watched exhaust temps cycle via my scangauge II several times during this drive, and verified via VCDS that calculated soot levels and miles since regeneration had reset, indicating sucessful regeneration.

    I say kudos to you, Jack, for the oven cleaner as a way to reduce soot levels, and perhaps also ash, and I clap for JNOJetta, for the DIY efforts, and hanging in there.

    at this point, if the computer has been convinced that the DPF has been reset, and other sensors (pressure and temperature, and Oxygen) are working, a drive should result in adding value to the reported calculated soot, (was it reset to zero?), perhaps also for the measured soot, and if luck is in the house, an active regeneration should fire off in a couple hundred miles.
    Last edited by mikeme; 03-08-2015 at 07:26 PM.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    It absolutely will.............




    Was really nice of you to offer that valve though..........
    The Throttle valve control module, is I think, in the intake end of things, not in the exhaust.

    I know the paragraph in the SSG is under the photo of the exhaust valve. but I am pretty sure it is about the intake valve.

  4. #84
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    in any case, it seems to me, (just a suggestion, and free advice.....) that since it is all back together, perhaps some logging and watching may be a good path.

  5. #85
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    No disrespect intended, but I did have my exhaust flap lock up, had errors for stuck open and stuck closed. and the check engine light.

    I ordered a new one, (my choice, I know I probably could have removed, and cleaned and lubed and pressed on...)

    also did some research in the Self Study Program 826803 2.0 Liter TDI Common Rail BIN5 ULEV Engine which led me to understand that the exhaust flap works to reduce flow associated with NOX cats, and not the DPF It is used to regulate EGR flow.

    the input throttle valve J338 and Throttle position sensor G69 is associated with DPF regen and with EGR control. malfunction in either will prevent DPF active regen or EGR.

    based on my understanding, as I said, I drove just shy of 1000 miles with a locked up exhaust flap, MIL lit, and errors for exhaust flap stuck open and stuck closed. ( I can post the specific errors if needed, on my other computer) I watched exhaust temps cycle via my scangauge II several times during this drive, and verified via VCDS that calculated soot levels and miles since regeneration had reset, indicating sucessful regeneration.

    I say kudos to you, Jack, for the oven cleaner as a way to reduce soot levels, and perhaps also ash, and I clap for the OP, for the DIY efforts.

    at this point, if the computer has been convinced that the DPF has been reset, and other sensors (pressure and temperature, and Oxygen) are working, a drive should result in adding value to the reported calculated soot, (was it reset to zero?), perhaps also for the measured soot, and if luck is in the house, an active regeneration should fire off in a couple hundred miles.

    None taken........... I see your intent is genuine just felt the need to correct it when I know it was wrong.

    That is the difference between active, passive, custom, and service regeneration formats.

    You can see what I sated before in the SSP I quoted as a basis......not just shooting my mouth off.

    You can also see further details in the SSP I describe at page 61 forward.......

    If all is working and a drive is preformed....... it will most likely auto-adapt...........correct!
    If a fault is static and preventing the DCY from completing............ like in this case illuminate the DPF light.
    We have not yet failed enough times or corrected itself for the MIL.
    I am sure it will work out though.
    I have helped many with this already proven method.

    It's not always easy for noobs to get it right, or be familiar on first shot....... so I understand his frustration.
    I say he has done a hell of great job so far. Thumbs up!

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  7. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeme View Post
    No disrespect intended, but I did have my exhaust flap lock up, had errors for stuck open and stuck closed. and the check engine light.

    I ordered a new one, (my choice, I know I probably could have removed, and cleaned and lubed and pressed on...)

    also did some research in the Self Study Program 826803 2.0 Liter TDI Common Rail BIN5 ULEV Engine which led me to understand that the exhaust flap works to reduce flow associated with NOX cats, and not the DPF It is used to regulate EGR flow.

    the input throttle valve J338 and Throttle position sensor G69 is associated with DPF regen and with EGR control. malfunction in either will prevent DPF active regen or EGR.

    based on my understanding, as I said, I drove just shy of 1000 miles with a locked up exhaust flap, MIL lit, and errors for exhaust flap stuck open and stuck closed. ( I can post the specific errors if needed, on my other computer) I watched exhaust temps cycle via my scangauge II several times during this drive, and verified via VCDS that calculated soot levels and miles since regeneration had reset, indicating sucessful regeneration.

    I say kudos to you, Jack, for the oven cleaner as a way to reduce soot levels, and perhaps also ash, and I clap for JNOJetta, for the DIY efforts, and hanging in there.

    at this point, if the computer has been convinced that the DPF has been reset, and other sensors (pressure and temperature, and Oxygen) are working, a drive should result in adding value to the reported calculated soot, (was it reset to zero?), perhaps also for the measured soot, and if luck is in the house, an active regeneration should fire off in a couple hundred miles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    None taken........... I see your intent is genuine just felt the need to correct it when I know it was wrong.

    That is the difference between active, passive, custom, and service regeneration formats.

    You can see what I sated before in the SSP I quoted as a basis......not just shooting my mouth off.

    You can also see further details in the SSP I describe at page 61 forward.......

    If all is working and a drive is preformed....... it will most likely auto-adapt...........correct!
    If a fault is static and preventing the DCY from completing............ like in this case illuminate the DPF light.
    We have not yet failed enough times or corrected itself for the MIL.
    I am sure it will work out though.
    I have helped many with this already proven method.

    It's not always easy for noobs to get it right, or be familiar on first shot....... so I understand his frustration.
    I say he has done a hell of great job so far. Thumbs up!
    First off I want to say thank you for all the kind words! I am a car enthusiast and in order for me to be one i need to do all my own work. No offense to everyone that works on cars professionally but i simply can not afford the labor. I have been a little slow on this project because i have the car at my father in laws house (where the car lift is) Im going over there later tonight to pick up the car so i can drive it for a couple days to work. (100 miles round trip) I really cant tell everyone enough how much i appreciate the help. Everyone has guided me through this and i cant wait to get this last light off. Im really hoping that driving it will do the trick as i have seen that suggested in more than one place. I know the flap is stuck open and im going to try to run the test with the car in the air so i can see if the flap is moving. This has been an ongoing problem (flap) with this car since it had 30,000 miles on it and it has never had dpf problems. This problem was from the bad egt sensor. Yes the soot and ash are reset to zero and i have not had a regen since i have reinstalled the DPF. I cant force one either because im not over the 20g minimum. Once again thank you so much to everyone that has been taking time out of their day to help out a stranger!


    BTW can i only post pictures on here that have a URL?

  8. #87
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnojetta View Post
    BTW can i only post pictures on here that have a URL?
    Yup. See How To Post Pictures.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  9. #88
    Verified VCDS User roth's Avatar
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    Lightbulb My 3 Cents.

    I was reading this whole thread for a while and have a few points to make. Seems to me that there is a lot of folklore in the subject. Don't want to step on any toes but there are some things I'd like to point out.

    Read slowly!

    DPFs are designed to filter out DPs (soot) from the diesel exhaust. They are designed as NOT "see trough" filters like catalytic converters are BUT have the small channels closed off so the exhaust gas (small molecules) CAN pass trough but DPs (big particles) cannot.


    Now how big are we talking about. Well, the modern DPF will filter out particles of 1 micron (1 millionth of a meter) and bigger with about 95% and higher efficiency! To compare, dust mite is about 300 microns, human hair is 20-180 microns, red blood cell 6-10 microns. You get the idea, what we are talking about here???


    So, any idea of cleaning it by flushing it, especially in the direction of the exhaust, no, I'm not buying it . Yes it is possible to clean the DPF by blasting the DPs by highly compressed air in the direction opposite to the direction of exhaust, baking the DPF in high temperature (around 800 C) overnight and finally, again blasting the remaining ash with highly compressed air and that is how this is really done professionally. Additionally, on 2.0T diesel the DPF is combined with oxidation catalyst. So, to clean it properly you would have to cut the DPF part out first.


    Now, on the so called DPF regeneration.

    As you drive and the DPF is filtering the soot out of the exhaust, the design of the exhaust (catalyst and DPF close to exhaust manifold) is doing the regeneration by itself, without any input from ECM. Simply put the CAT and DPF get hot enough (around 600 C) for long enough for this process to take place. This is called passive regeneration.

    If the the above scenario does not happen, the ECM is taking active role and starting so called active regeneration. In which it will try to increase the temperature of the DPF by injecting extra fuel, delaying injection, adding extra air and so on. This usually takes care of the problem, provided that the car is driven long enough.

    If this is not the case and the soot level continues to increase, the ECM will turn the DPF warning lamp ON after the soot level crosses the threshold value (about 24 grams). This is to let the driver know to preform so called regeneration drive on which the driver can read in his / her OWNERS MANUAL.

    If the driver fails to do so and the soot level continues to increase, the glow plug and check engine indicator will light up as well, as soon as the soot level reaches 40 grams. This is to let the driver know that the active regeneration is turned off and only service regeneration is now possible. This is done by following a special procedure with VCDS or other capable tool.

    If the driver fails to do so and the soot level reaches 45 grams the regeneration is turned off and DPF needs to be replaced with new or reconditioned one.

    Additionally, as a safety measure, the ECM will also start an active regeneration automatically if during the last 466 to 621 miles (750 to 1000 km) of travel no successful regeneration has taken place, regardless of soot level.

    ECM uses bunch of sensors (temperature, pressure, air flow, O2 content) and internal map to determine the soot level. Therefore, you have soot level calculated and measured in MVBs. This information is used (along with the sensor data) to start, conduct and finish active regeneration.

    All this information can be red and, with a informed use of label file, evaluated in relevant MVBs with VCDS. So, you know what is really going on with your DPF system.

    So, now, after you red this, what do you think is going on with your car?

    Can you start proper diagnose 1st, maybe, by posting the relevant values from the relevant MVBs (DPF related)?

    Maybe, then we can learn something together and your car gets fixed in the process.

    BR, Andy

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  11. #89
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Hey Andy..........

    You may not be buying it..........however, neither did the people who were told they needed the PTF at the dealer or private shop.

    Everyone of them is still driving with no error......... and no issue at a cost of time and some cheap oxidizing cleaner.

    It is well documented using a corrosive to clean a contaminated catalyst for gas and diesel.

    A catalyst can't function if the rare metals are coated and blocked from being able to make there exothermic reaction.

    Manual removal and heat are not the only method.

    You would be surprised what chemicals will do or even good old soap and water.
    Once you have removed a majority of the soot/ash you now can let the heated functions and cycles take over through normal driving in the car.

  12. #90
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    So i drove the car to work today, about 50 miles. The DPF light is still on. Calculated soot is at 7.5 and measured soot is at 0. It shows that the car has tried to have 2 regens but it also says 0 successful regens. Looks like the exhaust flap may be causing some issues. I have a hard time understanding why because that exhaust flap has had MIL lights on and off all the time since the car was damn near new and i could always tell when it would go into a regen and never had any problems with it. I am going to pull the flapper again, check connection (pins and make sure its plugged in all the way) and lube and work it again. When I use VCDS to do the output test should the values in the boxes change? looks like all of mine say 0 or 0%. The second from the last box says something like "0000100" then it will change sometimes to "0000000". Voltage in the last window shows 4.7v. Let me know what you guys think. I honestly feel like i'm missing something simple. LOL
    Last edited by jnojetta; 03-09-2015 at 07:13 AM.

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