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Thread: How to emergency Regen while sitting

  1. #91
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    I express no opinion on DPF cleaning methods here... I'm not really qualified.

    Quote Originally Posted by roth View Post
    Now how big are we talking about. Well, the modern DPF will filter out particles of 1 micron (1 millionth of a meter) and bigger with about 95% and higher efficiency! To compare, dust mite is about 300 microns, human hair is 20-180 microns, red blood cell 6-10 microns. You get the idea, what we are talking about here???
    That said, I have to take a moment to appreciate the engineering that has to go into that filter. 100K miles of service or more from a B95 1 micron filter that catches very nasty stuff at very hot temperatures moving at a very high rate. I think a decent full-flow oil filter is only B95 20 microns or so, and we depend on those to keep our lubrication systems happy.

    I wish I better understood the chemistry involved. I've read through much of the educational links Ross-Tech put up recently for modern VW diesel emissions controls, and that is just some crazy Rube Goldberg stuff going on. It amazes me they can make that number of inter-dependent control and feedback loops work right the day it rolls out of the factory, let alone as it ages.

    Jason

  2. #92
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    Requested Regenerations is not a count of the number of times a regeneration is asked for. Not sure if I have ever seen the successful regeneration number higher than zero on my car.

    The Requested Regenerations indicated number increases until an active regeneration is asked for, and decreases during the active regeneration. the values for calculated and measured soot seem good, would expect the requested regenerations, and calculated soot to increase as you drive, until (hopefully) and active regeneration event happens. You also should be able to see DPF differential pressure readings. (just to reassure yourself that the pressure sensors are working ok)

    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/dpf-obd-charts/ I put up some charts from my car (which seems to be working ok) for reference.
    I would want to be logging data at least till you have seen a regeneration. since you used oven cleaner to remove soot (and perhaps some ash), the hope is that a regeneration will not harm the car or damage the DPF. (will depend on how much soot was chemically removed)

    It seems to me that the primary benefit from a chemical wash is to reduce soot. Lying to the computer that a new DPF is installed resets calculated soot value as well as calculated ash value. Since the computer does not see a soot value over 45g, it will start an active regeneration when called for by the calculated, measured soot, or miles since, whichever comes first. if enough soot was removed, the regeneration should happen, (if all the involved sensors are working ok) since some of the soot was removed, a safe regeneration (and many more into the future) is hoped for.

    since the ash value is also calculated, it is not clear at all to me what the actual limit for accumulated ash is, or how accurate the calculated ash value is.
    Last edited by mikeme; 03-09-2015 at 10:29 AM. Reason: correct max soot level for regen

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeme View Post
    Requested Regenerations is not a count of the number of times a regeneration is asked for. Not sure if I have ever seen the successful regeneration number higher than zero on my car.

    The Requested Regenerations indicated number increases until an active regeneration is asked for, and decreases during the active regeneration. the values for calculated and measured soot seem good, would expect the requested regenerations, and calculated soot to increase as you drive, until (hopefully) and active regeneration event happens. You also should be able to see DPF differential pressure readings. (just to reassure yourself that the pressure sensors are working ok)

    http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/dpf-obd-charts/ I put up some charts from my car (which seems to be working ok) for reference.
    I would want to be logging data at least till you have seen a regeneration. since you used oven cleaner to remove soot (and perhaps some ash), the hope is that a regeneration will not harm the car or damage the DPF. (will depend on how much soot was chemically removed)

    It seems to me that the primary benefit from a chemical wash is to reduce soot. Lying to the computer that a new DPF is installed resets calculated soot value as well as calculated ash value. Since the computer does not see a soot value over 42g, it will start an active regeneration when called for by the calculated, measured soot, or miles since, whichever comes first. if enough soot was removed, the regeneration should happen, (if all the involved sensors are working ok) since some of the soot was removed, a safe regeneration (and many more into the future) is hoped for.

    since the ash value is also calculated, it is not clear at all to me what the actual limit for accumulated ash is, or how accurate the calculated ash value is.
    I think I read somewhere the requested regen will count up to 5. Does that sound right?

  4. #94
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    All faults must be corrected before a valid regeneration process can take place.

    I have done many of these with a 100% success rate to date.
    That includes turbo chargers which dumped oil in intake and exhaust and were run for a few miles........after turbo grenade's even.

    I have seen an awful lot of PSI sensors fail.....

    Most of the cars which were plugged up did a lot of traffic driving or the customer was lazy letting car warm up in driveway for like 30 minutes everyday.
    Especially the ones waiting for heat or AC to facilitate that perfect temp cabin.
    Most were automatics with remote start!

  5. #95
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    I have seen discussion that it goes to six. others have said it can go higher. mine set off an active regen when the number was 5.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    All faults must be corrected before a valid regeneration process can take place.

    I have done many of these with a 100% success rate to date.
    That includes turbo chargers which dumped oil in intake and exhaust and were run for a few miles........after turbo grenade's even.

    I have seen an awful lot of PSI sensors fail.....

    Most of the cars which were plugged up did a lot of traffic driving or the customer was lazy letting car warm up in driveway for like 30 minutes everyday.
    Especially the ones waiting for heat or AC to facilitate that perfect temp cabin.
    Most were automatics with remote start!
    Well the flapper is coming out again tonight to be inspected and lubed. I can only hope this will take care of it. I have seen that the spring will hold the valve open. If you close it by hand and let go the spring will reopen the valve. I can say for sure mine does not do that but it does not take much effort at all to move the flap by use of your finger. Hope to have better results tonight. I can't believe the exhaust flap has not thrown a engine light like it has done in the past. The car was drove about 35,000 miles with the MIL on and off for the flapper and it never had any issues doing a regen then. I'm going to take Jacks advise and remove it again as he has been a great deal of knowledge and help thus far. Besides, it's good practice to repair the car to the best of your abilities.
    Last edited by jnojetta; 03-09-2015 at 10:41 AM.

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  8. #97
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Now for the second way I remove the particulates in the DPF ................if I happen to take it out of car.

    First I clean it as prior stated........

    Then I install in the abrasive blast tank. Very fine Walnut shells or even fine glass sand ........sent through the inlet and I install the vacuum to reclaim, pulling it through on other side to increase the flow.

    Then I walk away for a few hours, or even overnight then reverse the process......Then final soak and rinse.

    I have cut them open to observe before and after.
    This method is also tried and true when removing carbon/soot/ASH.........

    It should be noted it is the beginning opening that where the block of these units starts.
    If you open them up and cut apart dirty you can see where the significant pile up is.
    That is why the oven cleaner works so well.

    Once proper flow is established........ the PSI sensors will see the required threshold changes that allow for the regen.
    PTF fails the same way it does in a gas car cat.......and can be melted blocking the inlets if regen is started while to high.

    A nice feature that is doesn't allow a regen in the TDI which allows for the cleaning window.

    An additional note to know you have achieved a good cleaning is to weigh the unit before and after if removed.

    Ever feel how much heavier a plugged CAT unit is?

    On gas cars I have even cut the front section of the CAT off then band sawed the first 10 MM to open up the burned inlets.
    This reveals the cells again and the CAT works great after being cleaned and re-welded together.
    The OEM cats have always typically had like 75% more rare metals than the AFT CATS I have seen.

    When sawing a CAT always take care to wear proper breathing gear and in vented area, because you don't want to breathe in the dust particulates.

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  10. #98
    Verified VCDS User roth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnojetta View Post
    Well the flapper is coming out again tonight to be inspected and lubed. I can only hope this will take care of it. I have seen that the spring will hold the valve open. If you close it by hand and let go the spring will reopen the valve. I can say for sure mine does not do that but it does not take much effort at all to move the flap by use of your finger. Hope to have better results tonight. I can't believe the exhaust flap has not thrown a engine light like it has done in the past. The car was drove about 35,000 miles with the MIL on and off for the flapper and it never had any issues doing a regen then. I'm going to take Jacks advise and remove it again as he has been a great deal of knowledge and help thus far. Besides, it's good practice to repair the car to the best of your abilities.
    Why not check the operating voltages for the exhaust flap 1st, which are:

    closed 0.5-0.9 V
    open 3.8-4.5 V

    and try to preform basic setting for it if applicable.

    BR, Andy

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  12. #99
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Sure I agree Andy ..........that's why I said it in post #79.

    I would absolutely run basics a few times..........

  13. #100
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    Well men this is post 100 and on post 100 im happy to tell everyone my problems are gone!!!!!! I put 100 miles on the car today going to and from work and the DPF light was still on when i got home. Just before i got home i got a check engine light for the exhaust pressure valve! I was beyond pissed to say the least as i felt that i was taking another step backward and i was having such a hard time moving forward. Right before the got to my father in laws house the DPF light went off! I wanted to still pull the exhaust flap because i want the car right! I pulled off the valve and spent over 1 hour with it out of the car working it back and forth trying to loosen it up the best that i could. I reassembled and reinstalled, so far so good! I simply can not express my gratitude to everyone that has contributed to this post! Everyone has been so much help and brought so much to the discussion! To you Mr.Jack, thank you for the foaming oven cleaner tip and the patience you had walking me through some of the steps as i was not use to VCDS at all when i started. I have never had this much support from a forum before. When i bought my VCDS system, Bruce from Ross Tech told me that he was confident Ross Tech has one of the best, most supportive forums on the web. I must say gents, that was an understatement. Im rambling at this point and i feel everyone understand where im coming from. So on an ending note, for all the doubters, YES YES YES the foaming oven cleaner works! Follow Jacks instructions. Jack, add me to the 75+ DPF's that you have saved. Thanks again everyone. If anyone has any questions for me i will be checking back to answer them but i am by no means an expert. Thanks again!!!!!
    Last edited by jnojetta; 03-09-2015 at 10:06 PM.

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