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Thread: 2014 audi s3 Ecu reprogramming

  1. #11
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    Hi jack,

    Thanks for response, No I have not check what load, I Will test for current load and post what I find.

    Many thanks again Gary

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    Verified VCDS User DV52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vauxhallgaz2000 View Post
    Hi again jack,

    I have replaced the sensors and used a meter to test the continuity back to the Ecu to ensure there are no breaks in the wires and all is good there No breaks anywhere. I’m new to vcds is there a function in it that can show the signal/output from the sensors?

    Many thanks Gary
    Gary: I'm reading your responses to OPs with interest and I'm looking at patterns in the DTCs in your auto-scan - and I'm puzzled (which is not an unusual condition these days given my age and my fondness for single malt scotch )!

    At least for the ECU in your scan report, and with the caveat that any observation made on the opposite side of the world is necessarily limited in accuracy, there is a commonality in the sensor errors. I'm not sure how familiar you are with these sensors and I apologize in advance if you already know this stuff, but the 3 x sensors in error on the ECU are basically 3 x pin devices that take their power from a 5 Volt supply within the hex01 module.

    Basically, the sensors are wired like this:



    Despite that fact that Hall effect transducers can be of various different types (digital/analogue, bipolar/unipolar etc.), their simplicity from an external wiring perspective does make fault finding easier IMO.

    I don't have access to the WD for your particular CJXC engine, but I doubt that ALL 3 x sensors will take their +5V power from the same pin on the ECU (albeit, I acknowledge that it is possible).

    Also, it's tempting to conclude that the +5V power circuit within the ECU is "cactus", but if this were the case, I suspect that there would be many, many more DTCs as there are numerous other like-powered transducers in the vehicle - unless of course, if the failure has occurred downstream of a circuit distribution point within the module housing.

    So - to add to Jack's sage advice, perhaps after you have sourced the WD, grab a multi-meter (with a high internal impedance) and measure the +5V rail on the supply pins for the 3 x sensors - maybe?

    Don

    PS: as for your question about VCDS being able to measure sensor outputs, yes there is such a facility. It's done by selecting the Adv. Meas. Value option from the ECU screen:



    For your UDS module, you will then need to enter a suitable descriptor in the search box (see upper LHS of picture below) to identify the correct transducer - then place a tick in the box:
    Last edited by DV52; 07-12-2020 at 07:38 PM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  4. #13
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I personally don't trust what module's report to VCDS, unless I cross check it with a meter.

    Did you know during operation cross check algorithms are used to perform details in controllers stack & that make sensors report nonsense in comparison to what Meters may display, I wonder why?
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  5. #14
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    ^^^Jack: No, I didn't know that - once again, you have taught me something new - thanks.

    In another life now many years ago, I managed a small metering laboratory and I remember many hours spent discussing the merits of digital versus analogue measurement methods with some highly skilled engineers/technicians. From memory, I recall that the divide seemed to based on the past experience of the person taking a position. Being recently qualified, my preference always favored the then, newer technology.

    But alas, the digitization of the world in general (and cars in particular) has rendered such debates moot - nevertheless, I don't disagree that I still find comfort in a reading a number on a meter (notwithstanding that the meter is using digital technology) than viewing the same measurement on a VCDS screen (no offense to RT). The big problem of course, is that far too many people tend to believe the number - fact is that meters lie as often as do VCDS readings!!

    However, I do like the ability of being able to select multiple measurements from the Advanced Measurement facility in VCDS and watch how related transducers track (or, don't track)

    Don
    Last edited by DV52; 07-12-2020 at 08:59 PM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  7. #15
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Yeah it's fun to watch when you take a fixed decade value and the other block values indeed deviate based on math from other sensors connected to ECU to only show different block values?

    It is apparently to perform a means of authenticating parts from a supply vendor to stop clone aftermarket parts and "other" things, however, I been watching it since 1995 > when first observed in a power stage for coil part number 6N0-905-104?

    You do know this is by no means a VCDS problem but it is an industry widespread problem and does it seem to force a car/consumer back to dealer & to buy their shit by unjust enrichment scheme?
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  8. #16
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    Hi jack,don

    I have done a voltage check on the 2 cam sensors(crank sensor Is a bit hard to get probes on as the car is at home and not on a ramp at my workshop) I got 4.99/5 volts on the power side 13.1 on the negative and on the signal line fluctuated voltage Between 2.32 and 2.89 volts(all on tick over) I don’t often do meter volts load checks Tbh and tried a load test on the 200 milliamp scale and it Just cut the car out. Is this any help? It’s A bit beyond me here.

    Many thanks gary

  9. #17
    Verified VCDS User DV52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vauxhallgaz2000 View Post
    Hi jack,don

    I have done a voltage check on the 2 cam sensors(crank sensor Is a bit hard to get probes on as the car is at home and not on a ramp at my workshop) I got 4.99/5 volts on the power side 13.1 on the negative and on the signal line fluctuated voltage Between 2.32 and 2.89 volts(all on tick over) I don’t often do meter volts load checks Tbh and tried a load test on the 200 milliamp scale and it Just cut the car out. Is this any help? It’s A bit beyond me here.

    Many thanks gary
    Gary: pending a more informed response from Jack (his experience base in vehicle applications is far better than mine), your readings don't seem to be unreasonable. Of course "13.1 V on the negative side" seems a tad odd - but I suspect that this might be due to the fact that the internal 5V power supply in the ECU probably has its own dedicated earth rail which "floats" separate from the car's battery earth - maybe? The 13.1 V reading can be explained if you placed the negative multi-meter lead on the engine frame/car body.

    I'm not quite sure that I understand the load-test results - but my suspicion is that you may have taken the 5V power supply beyond its rated capacity if you selected the current option on the meter and tested between the +5Volt rail and earth. I would imagine that the design engineers back @ Audi would have made the 5V power supply very robust and able to be self protecting against short circuits. Hall effect sensors are not inherently large power devices, so I suspect the self limiting threshold on the 5V power supply in the ECU won't be high


    So- what conclusions might be reached from your observation? Again pending Jack's contribution, the results suggest to me that perhaps the ECU's power supply function for the sensors is OK (note: I choose the word "suggest" deliberately, because anything is possible as I type this on a distant continent while watching a mob of kangaroos blissfully grazing on a patch of green winter grass in a paddock not far from my workshop window). Of course, there may still be a problem with the sensors' outputs reaching the ECU connector (as Jack originally suggested) but your readings do discount the ECU 's 5V rail as a possible contributor - I think!

    So with the benefit of your tests, let's look closer @ the DTC descriptors in your auto-scan:
    1. Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) - Malfunction - Intermittent
    2. Camshaft Position Sensor B Bank 1 (G300) - Implausible Signal -Not Confirmed
    3. Crankshaft Position Sensor (G28) - Missing Tooth - Not Confirmed


    All three entries suggest (there's that word again) that there might be something not quite right with the sensors themselves - perhaps? I'm not familiar with these particular sensors, but I have been able to validate the operation of Hall effect transducers in the past by placing a strong magnetic field close to device and watch for a change in output reading -of course this test is not definitive.

    Perhaps the output readings from Adv. Meas. Value can provide further useful information?

    Don

    EDIT: Certainly nowhere near as good as a WD, but you can download a copy of the SSP that describes how the 3 x sensors are integrated into the CJXC engine (EA888 series) Here
    Note: G28 is described differently in the document; not as a "camshaft position" sensor, but as a "speed sensor" sitting in the bottom of the oil pan. The WD also describes G28 as a "speed sensor" - go figure!!
    Last edited by DV52; 07-13-2020 at 07:17 PM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  11. #18
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    The ECU's have thermal breakers too for the 5 volt, so most likely bad harness or bad sensor in tree shared low voltage output.

    It could be a water ingress ECU and damaged too but highly unlikely, cost nothing but time and patients to inspect right?

    How about unplugging all shared sensors and using decade box to the tracks to see DTC's & watch them change static, vacated or opposite sweep of DTC range?
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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