Mk4 Immo2 issues

Schaefer · Jul 5, 2020

Good day fine peeps,

Last week I went to start my car Tuesday morning (2001 MK4 GTI 1.8t) and was greeted by IMMO shutting it off. Scanned and had only a P1570 in ECU, performed battery reset which did nothing.
Channel 22 in Instruments was showing 0,1,1,0 some reason showing no keys adapted :confused:

I logged into my Instruments with my 4pin SKC (1099 -> 01099) it showed 3 keys, I set new value to 0 (to clear and then readapt keys) and hit test and "test value" showed ERROR. When I got out and closed controller my car started multiple times with all 3 keys. After vehicle sat for a bit, it would not start again and got the same P1570 in ECU, logged back into Instruments and car started again and was able to clear P1570 :confused:

That brings me to writing this post.

I have a feeling my Cluster is faulty or the IMMO section in the cluster is gone for poop. Also, why would I keep getting ERROR in test value when I try to change the key number?

Has anyone every ran into this? First time I've ever had an IMMO issue on this car (have owned it for over 10 years)

Code:

Sunday,05,July,2020,14:11:18:46044
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 20.4.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20200331 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


Mileage: 252100km-156647mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
          76
 
   Mileage: 252100km-156647miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-AWD.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 032 CL
   Component: 1.8l 5V 110kW TLG   V004  
   Coding: 06500
   Shop #: WSC 03037  
   VCID: 6ADB304616CC35D6B5-5124

1 Fault Found:
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer 
            P1570 - 35-10 -  - Intermittent
Readiness: 0010 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 907 379 AF
   Component: ASR     20 IE CAN  0001  
   Coding: 13404
   Shop #: WSC 01317  
   VCID: 75E1133A4F72EA2E28-4AEC

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 6Q0 909 605 A
   Component: 12 AIRBAG VW5  02   0004  
   Coding: 12594
   Shop #: WSC 01317  
   VCID: 3561D33A0FF2AA2EE8-4AD4

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 920 805 J
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. BOO V01  
   Coding: 04332
   Shop #: WSC 93286  
   VCID: 2D51FB5AE7A2E2EE90-5140

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: Ident
   Component: Nr. WEGFAHRS.:VWZ6Z0Y1801978  
   Ident.-Nr. WEGFAHRS.:VWZ6Z0Y1801978

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 01317  
   VCID: 70EF222E3010CF06FB-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 959 799 AJ
   Component: 62 Zentral-SG Komf. 0001  
   Coding: 00256
   Shop #: WSC 01317  
   VCID: 060364F62294F1B631-4AEC

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1J1959801C
   Component: 62 Tõrsteuerger. FS0002r  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1J1959802D
   Component: 62 Tõrsteuerger. BF0002r  

4 Faults Found:
00953 - Interior Light Time limit 
            25-10 - Unknown Switch Condition - Intermittent
00943 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Driver Side (Z4) 
            35-00 - -
00912 - Window Regulator Switch; Front Left (E40) 
            27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00944 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Passenger Side (Z5) 
            35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 035 180 D
   Component:  RADIO 3CP         0001  
   Coding: 01403
   Shop #: WSC 03286  
   VCID: 204F126EA0703F862B-4AEC

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 05:04)--------------------------

Uwe · Jul 5, 2020

Those old immo clusters would always allow the engine to start during the ignition cycle in which you did a valid Immo login.

In order to test whether keys have been adapted successfully, you must leave the ignition off for a bit before you can actually tell.

Show us what you have in MVBs 022, 023, and 024 with each of your three keys in the ignition (one at a time obviously).

-Uwe-

Schaefer · Jul 5, 2020

I haven' been able to "readapt" my keys through channel 21 of Instrument adaption, when I change key number to "0" to clear keys and test, "test value" shows "ERROR"
Here are screen of my 3 keys in 22,23,24.

https://imgur.com/a/qzACSLA

Jack@European_Parts · Jul 5, 2020

Did you know not key related if it's a com between ECU and Cluster issue?

Did you readapt with no pin needed in cluster following RTFB and check VCDS block 125 values to cross check cluster and ECU twisted set and overlay if required + check termination resistors or K line for traffic issues?

Schaefer · Jul 5, 2020

Jack@European_Parts said:
Did you know not key related if it's a com between ECU and Cluster issue?

Did you readapt with no pin needed in cluster following RTFB and check VCDS block 125 values to cross check cluster and ECU twisted set and overlay if required + check termination resistors or K line for traffic issues?

Would the com wires from ECU to Cluster not be fine if, when my vehicle is running my cluster reads ECU data fine. e.g rpm, speed, engine temp etc? Also, my cluster isnt permitting engine start and it shows ECu is responding.

Jack@European_Parts · Jul 5, 2020

Isn't the ECU denying you, so maybe it's a K line issue or ECU, I see nothing in cluster to I indicate a problem but sure it could be either or?

Car this old why not just disable Immobilizer?

Schaefer · Jul 5, 2020

I think immo defeat is my next step. I'm pretty sure the cluster just sends a signal to ECU to either start or dont start, I believe that's what the first data # in group 22 of instrument is, 0=telling ECU dont start because it sees an IMMO issue 1=telling ECU to go ahead and start.

There is only a CAN low and CAN high running from the ECU to cluster and the cluster is the gateway module for the CAN network. So if you can read ECU data the com lines are most likely fine because it goes through the cluster to read it.

Jack@European_Parts · Jul 5, 2020

Did you know depending on version the Immobilizer 2 system can communicate on K Line CAN or even both with dependencies?

Uwe · Jul 6, 2020

Schaefer said:
I haven' been able to "readapt" my keys through channel 21 of Instrument adaption, when I change key number to "0" to clear keys and test, "test value" shows "ERROR"
Here are screen of my 3 keys in 22,23,24.

https://imgur.com/a/qzACSLA

Scratching head here.

Comms with Engine are OK, but Engine Start is not permitted. Makes sense since neither variable nor fixed code is authorized.

Key status is 1 on all of them, so the cluster/immo can see the transponder.

But Immobilizer Status is N/A..? I don't recall of it that's normal for an Immo-2 cluster..?

With inexplicable immo problems like this, I'd normally recommend a "Battery Jesus", but you say you've already done that, so....

-Uwe-

Uwe · Jul 6, 2020

Jack@European_Parts said:
Isn't the ECU denying you, so maybe it's a K line issue or ECU

I don't see anything indicative of that.

-Uwe-

Uwe · Jul 6, 2020

Schaefer said:
I'm pretty sure the cluster just sends a signal to ECU to either start or dont start, I believe that's what the first data # in group 22 of instrument is, 0=telling ECU dont start because it sees an IMMO issue 1=telling ECU to go ahead and start.

I think the ECU queries the immo/cluster ("Is it OK for me to start/run?" and the immo/cluster responds to that query, but I'm not 100% certain.

Schaefer said:
There is only a CAN low and CAN high running from the ECU to cluster and the cluster is the gateway module for the CAN network. So if you can read ECU data the com lines are most likely fine because it goes through the cluster to read it.

There should also be a "W" line, which is a continuation of the "K" line from pin 7 of the DLC, but the cluster can and does split it from the K-Line while the immo negotiation is occurring.

However, since the immo/cluster says "Engine State Not Permitted" while at the same time saying comms with the ECU are OK, I don't think that's where the problem lies.

-Uwe-

Jack@European_Parts · Jul 6, 2020

That code will be created simply with a communication error or no com with cluster after attempted to be cranked from my experience.

Schaefer · Jul 6, 2020

DTC p1570 comes back instantly even if I don't attempt to start.

I've tried battery reset several times. If I login to cluster and get the car running start permit in block 22 changes to "1" and I can clear P1570

If I do a battery reset right away it kicks immo back on and won't start and goes back to a "0", P1560 is instantly in ECU before I attempt to start.

I've also tried to do a key adapt in Instrument numerous times, and no matter what I change new key number to "Test Value" always = ERROR

If I look at wiring diagrams the K-line runs directly from ECU to cluster. It also shows a wht/red wire coming from ECU to pin 13 on DLC, but doesn't show what its for, is this the W-line?

Jack@European_Parts · Jul 6, 2020

DTC p1570 comes back instantly even if I don't attempt to start.

I've tried battery reset several times. If I login to cluster and get the car running start permit in block 22 changes to "1" and I can clear P1570

If I do a battery reset right away it kicks immo back on and won't start and goes back to a "0", P1560 is instantly in ECU before I attempt to start.

I've also tried to do a key adapt in Instrument numerous times, and no matter what I change new key number to "Test Value" always = ERROR

If I look at wiring diagrams the K-line runs directly from ECU to cluster. It also shows a wht/red wire coming from ECU to pin 13 on DLC, but doesn't show what its for, is this the W-line?

Is the key count authorized on D2 in blocks in VCDS or not?

How many keys show as married in blocks?

If so forget about keys & adapt the ECU.

No pin is needed to re adapt an Immo 2 ECU & as long as keys are already authorized in cluster.

0x17-10-000 save shut key off and wait 30 seconds.......than try after clearing codes.

https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/immobilizer2.html

Uwe · Jul 6, 2020

Jack@European_Parts said:
If so forget about keys & adapt the ECU.

Worth trying (and doesn't cost anything!) but since there's no fault for "ECU Unauthorized", I don't have high hopes for it.

-Uwe-

Jack@European_Parts · Jul 6, 2020

Just throwing this out there........willing to work for donation plus freight to perform Immo defeat with credentials supplied for your unit.

You could also buy an outright ECU with Immo defeat here new or reman and additional RT forum member discounts apply too..... :rolleyes:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reman-VW-J...740758&hash=item25cd181bae:g:XrMAAOSwiONYPxUX

Default re-code cluster & gateway to reset it too, then check keys and re-adapt ECU?

If I look at wiring diagrams the K-line runs directly from ECU to cluster. It also shows a wht/red wire coming from ECU to pin 13 on DLC, but doesn't show what its for, is this the W-line?

Is it a secret boot mode trigger or just the K-line? :rolleyes:

Schaefer · Jul 6, 2020

I'll try readapting ECU tonight when I'm done work.

In Block 22 in Instruments it shows 0 keys being adapted, but when I go into Instrument adaptation group 21 it comes up as 3 in both fields.

Schaefer · Jul 6, 2020

Alright so I performed ECU readapt, turned of key for atleast 30sec cleared codes, IMMO still kicks engine off. Group 22 in instruments still shows 0-1-1-0. Tried hard battery reset again to no avail. Tried login to instruments and read channel 21 and adapt key and still get ERROR i test value, as soon as I hit up/dn it kicks an error.
Here are some more screens I added screen of block 125 in ECU as Jack mentioned

Edit, heres the link, cant seem to get screens to show up in post
https://imgur.com/a/qnAvvFu

Jack@European_Parts · Jul 6, 2020

Is terminal 15 and ecu supply relay actually switching terminal 15 to save data by ignition switch status?

Those screen shots are not of key blocks that's adaption and where is ECU on 125 values in cluster not engine ECU to see it answers?

Please try this and follow these directions.
Post block data of keys in screen shots from 0x17 all immobilizer related measuring blocks, do not login with SKC and dont go to adaption.

Clear codes in ECU and Cluster if present.

Recode each with new WSC configured in VCDS make sure it sees a change too by using different WSC.

Readapt ecu 0x17-10-00 save close controller turn key off wait 20 minutes.

Turn key on and see if it has codes or starts.

Schaefer · Jul 6, 2020

Is this the data blocks you want to see from cluster?
this is with no SKC login, all keys seem to be the same

Group 24 is all N/A so didnt include them

Code:

Address 17: Instruments  (1J0 920 805 J)

17:38:55
  0   Engine Start permitted
  1   Engine (ECU) responds
  1   Key Status 
  0   Number of adapted Keys
  0   Variable Code authorized
  0   Key Status (Transponder)
  0   Fixed Code authorized
  N/A   Immobilizer Status
  N/A   Immobilizer Communication
  Engine 1   Engine 
  ABS 1   Brake Electronics (J104)

Mk4 Immo2 issues

Verified VCDS User

Benevolent Dictator

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Benevolent Dictator

Benevolent Dictator

Benevolent Dictator

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Benevolent Dictator

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User

Verified VCDS User

Gone But Not Forgotten

Verified VCDS User