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Thread: 2005 mk4 jetta tdi 5-spd 09A Transmission issue

  1. #1
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    2005 mk4 jetta tdi 5-spd 09A Transmission issue

    So let me start off with what I need your guys help with and why i'm making this thread. My 2005 mk4 jetta tdi has started to shift really funny between 3rd and 4th gear. Now the issue is that it will be in 3rd and as its about to shift to 4th gear, it looses all power to the wheels and the rpm's shoot up and will not resume power until you let go of the gas and let if shift itself back into 3rd (I think). This will happen out of nowhere and it's unpredictable when it will do it. Today it did it five times back to back within the time span of 20 min. It will not do this when you let go of the gas at the peak of 3rd to let it shift to 4th. To give the closest explanation of what it feels like is like the transmission or clutch slips and misses 4th gear and just spins until the car realizes this and put's itself back into 3rd and acts like nothing every happened. I have had a transmission temperature sensor- implausible signal code before, but it's not there now. I drove around with my dad in the passenger seat watching vcds while this happened but he saw nothing that indicated a problem. He watched the solenoid behavior but we think the hex-net is quite delayed as shifts happened a few seconds before vcds showed anything. To be honest, we don't even know what to look for in vcds. Most troubling is that there are no codes whatsoever. I have a new scan of my car today as listed below.
    Code:
    Tuesday,17,February,2015,18:51:33:31462
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
    VCDS Version: 14.10.1.1 (x64)
    Data version: 20150130
    
    
    VIN: 3VWSR69M25M033882   License Plate: 
    Mileage: 246310km-153049mi   Repair Order: autoscan 2/17/15
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Chassis Type: 9M (9M - VW Jetta IV (1998 > 2014))
    Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57
              75 76
     
    VIN: 3VWSR69M25M033882   Mileage: 246310km-153049miles
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine        Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
       Part No SW: 038 997 016 R    HW: 028 101 181 2
       Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000AG  0282  
       Revision: 12345678    Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0331077
       Coding: 0150034
       Shop #: WSC 05232 444 85902
       VCID: AD124E4B356B5849756-5184
    
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09A-927-750.lbl
       Part No: 09A 927 750 BL
       Component: AG5 Getriebe 09A   0262   
       VCID: F6A0A127D0BD5B91C4C-5184
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
       Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102  
       Coding: 0019458
       Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
       VCID: B4245B2FD64109813A8-5184
    
    1 Fault Found:
    01423 - Lateral Acceleration Sensor (G200) 
                008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
       Component: 04 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0003  
       Coding: 12340
       Shop #: WSC 00066  
       VCID: A71EBC63479772198FA-5160
    
    1 Fault Found:
    00532 - Supply Voltage B+ 
                07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
       Part No: 1J5 920 906 R
       Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V57  
       Coding: 04234
       Shop #: WSC 00000  
       VCID: BC34730FAE11C1C1F28-5160
       3VWSR69M25M033882     VWZ7Z0D0331077
    
    1 Fault Found:
    01304 - Radio 
                49-00 - No Communications
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
       Part No: 6N0 909 901 
       Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
       Coding: 00006
       Shop #: WSC 00066  
       VCID: F0AC973FB2D975A11E0-5160
    
    1 Fault Found:
    01304 - Radio 
                49-00 - No Communications
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
       Component: 1H Komfortgerát HLO 0004  
       Coding: 00258
       Shop #: WSC 00066  
       VCID: B73E6C239737E2991FA-4B3C
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
       Component: 1H Tőrsteuer.FS KLO 0202  
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
       Component: 1H Tőrsteuer.BF KLO 0202  
    
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811A
       Component: 1H Tőrsteuer.HL KLO 0202  
    
       Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812A
       Component: 1H Tőrsteuer.HR KLO 0202  
    
    3 Faults Found:
    00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220) 
                54-00 - Incorrectly Equipped
    00930 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Left (F222) 
                27-00 - Implausible Signal
    00931 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Right (F223) 
                27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
    
    End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 08:55)--------------------------
    We also got a recorded log of it when the shift issue happened but to me it doesn't seem very helpful
    Code:
    Tuesday,17,February,2015,18:39:39:31462
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
    VCDS Version: 14.10.1.1 (x64)
    Data version: 20150130
    
    
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
                    Address 02: Auto Trans  (09A 927 750 BL)
    
    18:39:28
      31.4 %   Solenoid Valve 6 (N93)
      72.0*C   ATF Temperature 
      13.37 V   Battery Voltage 
      4.6 %   Solenoid Valve 4 (N91)
      00001100   Condition of Solenoid Valves
      N/A   Multi-Function Switch
      1728 /min   Transmission Speed (G182)
      20.0 %   Accelerator Pedal
    I also have a video of my car doing it. (don't listen to me say the gears because I am off so I put a text to help with that


    Honestly I hope I explained this all clearly enough because I have searched the web from top to bottom to try and find the cause of this and nobody is giving a definite answer mainly because it could be alot of things. I'm 18 and I bought this car with my own money, I don't have enough money to take it to the shop for the weekend and hope that they find a solution. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated and I thank you all very much.

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  3. #2
    Ross-Tech Employee DrPeter's Avatar
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    Hello,

    You may want to start with the basics, like:

    - Visual inspection or wiring, connections, shift controls, etc..

    - Condition of the transmission fluid (discolored/contaminates, etc..)

    - Transmission fluid level (Must be check on level ground and at the correct temperature (35C to 45C, see Measuring Value Block 002, field 3), Consult the Factory Repair manuals and Self-Study Program - 5-speed Automatic Gearbox 09A
    --- Correct part number for the fluid is [G 052 990 A2]


    If the above is correct, there maybe an internal concern with the transmission, such as a valve body/solenoid issue. This can be sometimes difficult to properly diagnose without further inspection of the transmission.

    Shifting from 3rd to 4th involves the disengagement of the N89 solenoid and the engagement of the N92 solenoid, so maybe one of these valves is not be functioning correctly.

    Hope this helps,

    drpeter

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  5. #3
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    It doesn't cost a ton of money to do above as Peter recommended.

    You could swap noids and mark them to see if they will move a fault or condition created.

    I have found that in many gear boxes that the fluid and filters are contaminated causing many and most issues.

    VB's mostly never fail and are dirty........ if cleaned usually will come around ........I am sure many will disagree and that's fine I don't care.

    There are few parts to wear and sometimes a piston for selection but mostly its a noid stuck from dirt which is why no code.

    I have been experimenting with different fluids to see what would help clean or free up a unit.

    Most recently over the last few years I have run Pentosin 202 hydraulic fluid in all my transmissions......... from the electrohydraulic racks.
    It works rather well for freeing up such issues, and I have found no determent to any VW-Audi or American/jap cars I have installed it.
    On many 01V cars we have corrected the TQ converter stuck off issue and other shift issues on many cars.

    This fluid is considerably thinner and gets in as a cleaning agent to lubricate a stuck area.

    Taking noids out and soaking them is also a great thing to do and bench test them to move visually verified.
    Common sense goes a long way when no funds are present.

    The factory will try to tell you that other fluids cant be used and I used to believe them. I can tell you through personal testing they are full of BS.
    Just a creative way to charge upwards of 25 USD a liter..............smoking mirrors.

    Today seems to be trans day.

    http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthre...d-to-3rd/page3
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 02-17-2015 at 11:06 PM.

  6. #4
    Verified VCDS User roth's Avatar
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    I would drive the car with a VCDS (have someone else look at it), to see if this is really 4th gear. There should be "gear selected" somewhere there. Make sure it is 4th. The reason is that all the clutches in 4th are used in 1/2/3 gears, so you shouldn't have a problem JUST in 4th. It will change something like 1H ->1M->2H->2M, etc. H is for hydraulic, M mechanical (torque converter locked up). Don't accelerate hard, let the tranny shift very softly.

    Let me know.

    BR, Andy

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    We, (he's my son) had the fluid changed at VW less than 1000 miles ago hoping to see if it fixed this issue. The VW tech (A friend of mine) said the fluid that came out looked very good. I agree completely that VW does not hold a patent on magical fluid. When driven very softly, the car will never do it. I was in the passengers seat last night and when I saw it fail he was between 60 and 70% throttle. It just feels like the car goes for 4th and it is not there. I couldnt find and way to see the gear on vcds but i could see the solenoids however they were greatly delayed, perhaps hex-net is not the best for real time diagnosis? In the 90s, I was a tech at a dealership (nissan) and when we would encounter sticking solenoids or valve bodies, we would use JB transmission tune up. Its not the miracle "rebuild in a can", but more simply, a varnish remover, that we had great luck with. Any chance anyone thinks trying a can of something like that is worth a chance? I'm sure we get no codes because electrically, everything is fine, but I'm surprised we dont get something saying the tranny speed does not match road speed or something. As he said, all help is appreciated and if I forgot to answer something that was asked, just ask again. He just turned 18 and the first national bank of dad isn't excited about a big loan.

  9. #6
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I would try it........ BG makes a chemical called quick clean.
    Best results are to remove the VB and soak then lube up.

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    I guess my thoughts, and please correct me if i'm wrong, are that removing the solenoids and valve body is quite a job, and if we had to go that deep, it would be senseless not to replace the failing solenoids, and if you're in there, its best to replace all of them. Neither job is one I'm excited to do. I think we will try the additive and see what happens. I can look up the product you mentioned but how do you feel about seafoam? It's available locally. Last question on the additive is, where in the heck do I put it in? No dipstick obviously, so is it pretty simple or are we looking at removing the battery and box? Thanks, we appreciate all the help we can get.
    Last edited by Locoelectrician; 02-18-2015 at 07:59 AM.

  11. #8
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Time to buy a manual..........www.erwin.vw.com

    Don't very much like the sea foam stuff but that is just preference.

    Personally I like oven cleaner and water.

  12. #9
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    So if we choose not to tear it apart at this point, could we just add the product you suggested and run it like that to see if it improves? Or are we wasting our time.

  13. #10
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    The quick clean can be added but the car cannot be driven with it.
    You then dump flush and install fresh fluid.

    Personally it isn't that hard to take a pan off and access the VB.
    Usually being lazy or not having the manual to even understand how to work on/change/measure fluids........... is a precursor to failure to achieve the goal.

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