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Thread: FOD PROJECT PISTON SLAP + BLOW BY BE GONE + 1 = 4 & THICK RING FUN EXPERIMENT!

  1. #1
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    FOD PROJECT PISTON SLAP + BLOW BY BE GONE + 1 = 4 & THICK RING FUN EXPERIMENT!

    INDUCED FOD PROJECT PISTON SLAP + BLOW BY BE GONE + 1 = 4 & THICK RING FUN EXPERIMENT!





    BACK TO BASICS .......

    FUTURES PAST COMES BACK TO HAUNT THE PROCESS AND WHY OR HOW COULD WE OF LOST OUR WAY!

    OIL & GAS CONTROL OR PISTON RESONANCE FROM SLAP ARE REAL, THEY EFFECT USEFUL LIFE, PERFORMANCE & SMOG!

    2 x THICK 5 MM OIL CONTROL RINGS AND TWO DOUBLE THICKNESS COMPRESSION RINGS 2 x @ 3 MM THICK!

    WILL THE ADDED COMPRESSION, WEIGHT, SEAL, MAINTENANCE OR LINEAR OPERATION ADD HP AND TQ WITH GAINS THAT EXCEED THE DRAG DEFICIT + LOWER SMOG OR WILL IT JUST GRENADE?

    TIME TO PUT IT TOO THE TEST........LET'S FIND OUT!






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    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    DECISIONS..... DECISIONS





    THINGS TO CONSIDER.......
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10_TDI

    2010

    Kolles fielded 2 Audi R10 in their final year at the Le Mans 24 Hours, on 14 June 2010. Unlike the factory Audi and Peugeot LMP1, the Kolles R10 was not hampered by the new restrictor regulations which should have shaved off 60 bhp from the diesel-powered prototypes. The cars qualified 3:30, just behind the two Lola Astons. Both cars failed to finish because too much strain from torque was put onto the gearbox.
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 05-15-2020 at 06:31 PM.
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    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    French Eric is upset with me he demands answers!










    Okay the beginning of this post is cryptic, terrible and deliberate, the thread title is not!
    Come on we are in the BAR, not the How Too Section....

    If you are new to the internal combustion engines "ICE" Diesel or GAS, you are probably saying WTF is this guy Jack talking about & sure seem's contrary to what everyone does in performance aspect or are doing with mods advertised?

    This entire idea is out of literally well over three decades observation of engines failing & by witnessing willfully negligent design, further relying on some alleged magical lubrication product or adulterated fuel as a means of denying a warranty or reason for failure too is getting old.

    It's "almost" all a big BS story, while lubricants and designs have improved, basics almost always remain & for reliable long term endured operation are already proven.

    Fuels are built to a specification criteria in order to be sold in the USA, as are ICE platforms that should operate within a useful life provided they were built to those fuel specifications as certified.
    Indeed true adulterated fuel or contamination is an issue too, however, not on the scale the OEM's claim and is clear, can't you see that?

    Experience with over a 100 years of the ICE & new precision machine tolerances of today and metal work or fuels, it is absolutely apparent to me & possible to build more reliable consistent designs & that can comport beyond useful life.

    It appears we have lost our way and a lot is often blamed by OEM's, for all the "AECD's" ( Auxiliary Emission Control Device ) causing the engine to be killed by the external SMOG remediation devices.

    Like with everything some things are true and some are not.

    What is not true is that the OEM manufacturing engineers in industry do not have a clear understanding of such basics, they do!

    This is true for current repair industry DIY & I see on daily, even in professional settings; this goes for electrical or mechanical understandings of a process too, the repair industry gets a big FAIL 80/20!

    The industry that works on the cars has been cryptically short changed & locked out too, just dumb'd down & to be fed such lines of BS to aid someone else's pockets at the expense of health and advancing technology or a work environment that actually knows how stuff works.

    Okay the aforementioned said why these crazy pistons Jack?

    Simple, however, not really..... it's a compounded answer.

    If oil is permitted to enter into the combustion process either by inadequate ring seal to bore clearances or blow by in intake PCV, the engine runs unclean and AECD's suffer!
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 05-15-2020 at 05:46 PM.
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    Hi Jack,
    If you are asking for speculation, I would be concerned that the inertial loads of a heavier piston would cause other consequences on a block and crank not designed to take those extra loads. The increased vibrations and resonances would affect the transmission as well as the mounting system.
    There, I've started it off.
    Regards HMC

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    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I been studying the conditions a long time now and measured the case PSI as Deterioration Factor "DF" sets in.

    By the increased weight shear forces are indeed increased, however, the piston being held center in engine by an additional lower ring and extended length will remove slap and resonance aiding in useful life and overall performance.

    A short light cut piston & with smaller rings, doesn't deal with or do well during normal useful life. Just look at the blow by gasses being generated and widespread issues with PCV or rear seals

    So many service histories in TSI , with low end failing and not like the 1.8T did & since no HPP or as many chain's.

    Look at all TSI chain or adjuster failure is clear it is widespread isn't it?

    I think this initial contamination of gasses and fuel is what ends up taking out the sump, block & an HPP too. It exacerbates the issue, since it's in a last spot lubrication point when this component itself starts a dump of fuel to sump.

    Now the injectors too are an issue, it is clear to me & at especially very high RPM ranges. The injectors can't withstand useful life for proper operation, however, maybe if not under such stress and were used in a lower RPM range, the heat and resonance might increase life?

    It's my believe the oil contamination is what damages the parts far more exceeding the risks to curtail these aforementioned observations.

    To be clear this experiment is to increase useful life stock not an effort to get HP on a dyno in an unusable RPM range.

    Now it is my belief that if max TQ can be moved in a slower RPM range of combustion process. A much smaller turbo can be used & with correct gearing, a car would be much more feasible to drive and fun.

    Almost any racer do two things I see.

    They lighten it all up and they steepen the final drive to get the TQ back. They do this to move faster at a higher RPM, however, engine's do not last and are torn down frequently as result.

    I think it's time for a new approach from what history taught us a long time ago, with NOS and water injection in aviation.

    Also the VAG blocks seem to hold up very well in my experience for bore wear and reliable from 70 's up however, it has always been an issue for rings fatigued or head issue's and caused by fueling.

    Amazing how old gas and diesel engines with many miles, the cross hatches from the last hone were still evident when observation of bore was done and how nice the cam lobes with solid lifters were....fond memories!
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    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Let's investigate the Porsche 356 which supported such ideas too even stock with large oil ring placement bellow piston pin?

    Did you know that many VW air cooled and Porsche engines & other OEM's, supported such aforementioned piston designs for race & aviation bi-wing applications?

    Did you know that race prototype engines or for even Indy 500 and others, supported such designs under extreme RPM upward of 15K, much duress and used boost PSI of 75 and up?

    Did you know that these engines produced 1150 HP at aforementioned designs & at a mere 1.5 liter displacement?

    Doesn't really make the tuners seem so innovative now huh?

    Rules in racing had to be changed due to this, did you know that too?

    356 stock/over sized piston application. Race engines had 4 rings and they were much larger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    Did you know that these engines produced 1150 HP at aforementioned designs & at a mere 1.5 liter displacement?
    Sure, but they only had to run for a few hours between overhauls, vs. the thousands of hours we expect from a daily driven street car.

    -Uwe-
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    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Sure, but they only had to run for a few hours between overhauls, vs. the thousands of hours we expect from a daily driven street car.

    -Uwe-

    Thousands?

    Ahh current alleged race builds are not making this type of HP or in comparison on small displacement and they are not holding together long either in larger versions.

    The point is, that in a stock situation and with this type piston design, it would be all over better in my opinion for long past useful life targets met & in performance applications.

    Current engines from many OEM's, internally, they are not making the useful life as certified and piston/ring failure is widespread, why?

    500-600 hours equals approximately about 30-35K miles depending on how driven & usually "hours" x 55 or 60 to get the inverse of mileage?

    The TDI low RPM and super high TQ is proof in R10 of that, just need to figure the drive-line to wheels.

    I'd much rather rev engine slower, safer and cleaner to make speed up in TQ in gas engines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    Thousands?
    Yes, thousands. 100,000 miles (which we'd certainly expect a daily-driven engine to achieve, no?) at an average speed of 50 mph would require the engine to run for 2000 hours.

    -Uwe-
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    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Yes, thousands. 100,000 miles (which we'd certainly expect a daily-driven engine to achieve, no?) at an average speed of 50 mph would require the engine to run for 2000 hours.

    -Uwe-
    Yes and they are NOT making it there are they?

    I see an awful lot of stratified engines that require pistons and rings long before 30K how about you & you expect 100K?

    Are not the PCV issues and engine seals blowing widespread along with water pump issues?

    Do you think a piston like this would cause more harm than good if it sealed the combustion chamber better?

    https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ns-winning-car

    In 1951, Porsche competed for the first time at the 24 Hours of Le Mans. The team at Zuffenhausen prepared a number of cars for the race but accidents during testing and training meant only one Porsche actually competed, 356/2-063, with Auguste Veuillet and Edmond Mouche driving. They averaged 87.61 mph over the 24 hours, taking a class win, Porsche’s first victory at Le Mans.
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 05-16-2020 at 07:11 PM.
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