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Thread: 2.0T TSI Timing Chain Tensioner Question

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    2.0T TSI Timing Chain Tensioner Question

    I have a 2009 Audi TT with the CCTA 2.0T TSI. The car runs fine (32,000 miles on the odometer), but I've become paranoid about the infamous timing chain tensioner. I've read horror stories about it failing with zero warning, i.e. no MIL, driveability change, etc. If that's the case, then it seems I should have the tensioner replaced before driving another mile. But is that really the case? Or would I get some warning and at least have time to pull off the road and have the car towed?

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    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Are they really failing with mileage that low?

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    I have mk3 tts with the gen3 ea888 in.
    I developed death rattle around 55k on cold starts that got progressively worse.
    Decided to change the whole chain, tensioner and cam sensors before the inevitable happened.

    It's down to the way the chain can snap back when engine stops, it can leave the tensioner loose, so until you build up oil pressure in those first 1-2 seconds you risk skipping a tooth.

    You'll hear a vibrating rattle as the chain slaps the plastic on cold start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Are they really failing with mileage that low?

    -Uwe-
    From what I gather, it's affected cars with as little as 20k. Ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Placeborick View Post
    I have mk3 tts with the gen3 ea888 in.
    I developed death rattle around 55k on cold starts that got progressively worse.
    Decided to change the whole chain, tensioner and cam sensors before the inevitable happened.

    It's down to the way the chain can snap back when engine stops, it can leave the tensioner loose, so until you build up oil pressure in those first 1-2 seconds you risk skipping a tooth.

    You'll hear a vibrating rattle as the chain slaps the plastic on cold start.
    Thanks. I'm pretty observant for any odd sounds, so this helps. I don't have a problem with replacing the tensioner (and the chain and other related components), but it kills me to do it at 32,000 miles as preventive maintenance.

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    I wouldn't stress over it. If it goes it will be on startup

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    Quote Originally Posted by Placeborick View Post
    I wouldn't stress over it. If it goes it will be on startup
    That could still do a lot of damage, you only need one revolution to smash things.
    Regards HMC

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    I meant more along the lines of it's not going to lunch itself half way up the motorway like a timing belt can.
    They're most vunerable in that first few seconds.
    No point worrying about the What Ifs, there are loads of ways a second hand car could potentially fail.

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    Most cambelts fail at idle, that is when they are under most stress from the changing load on them. If I had a pound for every time someone has said "there won't be any damage as it was only ticking over" I could have some of the fun my customers seem to have!
    Regards HMC

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    It would be a reckless choice to ignore a ticking time bomb of clock you can't read & being a widespread known issue wouldn't it?



    That's like walking through a mine field without a map!
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    Ross-Tech Employee DrPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolksRabbit View Post
    I have a 2009 Audi TT with the CCTA 2.0T TSI. The car runs fine (32,000 miles on the odometer), but I've become paranoid about the infamous timing chain tensioner. I've read horror stories about it failing with zero warning, i.e. no MIL, driveability change, etc. If that's the case, then it seems I should have the tensioner replaced before driving another mile. But is that really the case? Or would I get some warning and at least have time to pull off the road and have the car towed?
    Hi there, I bought a 2009 Passat with the CCTS engine from the auction, vehicle was in perfect condition, except the writing on the windshield, "ENGINE LOCKED". I basically knew it would need an engine or a lot of work. When I picked up the vehicle, I checked the engine, it was locked up.. however there was some play, but it would not turn more than 20-degrees or so.

    Here are the fault codes from the vehicle as I received it:

    Code:
    Address 01: Engine (CCT)       Labels: 06J-906-026-CCT.clb
       Part No SW: 06J 906 026 AG    HW: 06J 906 026 AF
       Component: MED17.5 TFSI 2,0    3319
       Revision: AAH03---    Serial number: VWZCZ000000000
       Coding: 0404010A19070160
       Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
       VCID: 6FE792F17EE8AE4710-803A
    
    12 Faults Found:
    000833 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40)
                   P0341 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 00100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 3
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 160994 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2009.10.22
                        Time: 15:06:27
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 1239 /min
                        Load: 14.5 %
                        Speed: 38.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 96.0C
                        Temperature: 45.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 13.589 V
    
    000022 - Bank 1: CMP Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
                   P0016 - 000 - Incorrect Correlation - MIL ON
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 11100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 161163 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2009.10.25
                        Time: 20:09:05
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 1191 /min
                        Load: 37.2 %
                        Speed: 0.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 69.0C
                        Temperature: 50.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 13.589 V
    
    000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
                   P0300 - 000 -  - MIL ON
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 11100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 161163 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2009.10.25
                        Time: 20:09:51
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 906 /min
                        Load: 40.8 %
                        Speed: 1.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 72.0C
                        Temperature: 51.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 13.716 V
    
    000769 - Cylinder 1
                   P0301 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 10100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 161163 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2009.10.25
                        Time: 20:09:51
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 906 /min
                        Load: 40.8 %
                        Speed: 1.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 72.0C
                        Temperature: 51.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 13.716 V
    
    000771 - Cylinder 3
                   P0303 - 000 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 11100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 161163 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2009.10.25
                        Time: 20:09:51
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 906 /min
                        Load: 40.8 %
                        Speed: 1.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 72.0C
                        Temperature: 51.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 13.716 V
    
    000772 - Cylinder 4
                   P0304 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent - MIL ON
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 10100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 161163 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2009.10.25
                        Time: 20:09:51
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 906 /min
                        Load: 40.8 %
                        Speed: 1.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 72.0C
                        Temperature: 51.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 13.716 V
    
    000770 - Cylinder 2
                   P0302 - 000 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 11100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 161163 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2009.10.25
                        Time: 20:09:51
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 906 /min
                        Load: 40.8 %
                        Speed: 1.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 72.0C
                        Temperature: 51.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 13.716 V
    
    001286 - Idle Control System
                   P0506 - 000 - RPM Lower than Expected - MIL ON
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 11100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 161165 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2009.10.25
                        Time: 20:13:59
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 831 /min
                        Load: 34.1 %
                        Speed: 0.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 95.0C
                        Temperature: 51.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 13.462 V
    
    001674 - ECM Power Relay Load Circuit
                   P068A - 000 - Opens Too Early
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 01100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2047.15.31
                        Time: 31:63:63
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 0 /min
                        Load: 0.0 %
                        Speed: 0.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 31.0C
                        Temperature: 37.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 11.049 V
    
    053271 - Please Check Fault Codes in Control Module for ABS Brakes
                   U1017 - 000 -
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 01100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 161191 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2009.11.18
                        Time: 10:30:34
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 0 /min
                        Load: 0.0 %
                        Speed: 255.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 23.0C
                        Temperature: 30.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 9.398 V
    
    050197 - Implausible Data Received from ABS Control Module
                   U0415 - 000 -  - MIL ON
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 11100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 161191 km
                        Time Indication: 0
                        Date: 2009.11.18
                        Time: 10:30:34
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 0 /min
                        Load: 0.0 %
                        Speed: 255.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 23.0C
                        Temperature: 30.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 9.398 V
    
    001378 - System Voltage
                   P0562 - 000 - Too Low
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 01100000
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 161191 km
                        Time Indication: 0
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 0 /min
                        Load: 0.0 %
                        Speed: 0.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 33.0C
                        Temperature: 34.0C
                        Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 9.017 V
    
    Readiness: 0000 0000
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    If you notice at the bottom of the ECM's fault code list, the Readiness, is all [0000 0000] - meaning no one cleared the codes after the engine has failed. So what you see is what the customer would have seen just before catastrophic engine failure.

    With a bunch of misfires, I am sure that check engine light was on, saying check me out!!! but they must have just ignored it. Too bad because the vehicle had 100158 miles on it when I got it, just out of warranty.

    If you find the P0016 fault code and/or the P0341 fault codes in a chain drive engine, neither one of these fault codes should not be over looked.

    Also, if you suspect there could be a timing chain/adjuster issue, please see this Ross-Tech forum post:

    Audi Volkswagen - 2.0L Chain Drive - P0016 Cam/Crank correlation check



    Hope this helps,

    drpeter


    ps.. Yes, that is the broken intake valve that is on top of the piston from that CCTA engine. My son and I fixed the damage to the cylinder head and it has been fine since

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