2006 TDI BRM Hesitation

   #1  

Ramp Rat

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I have a 2006 Jetta TDI BRM with a DSG transmission. (I posted my original Scan https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?20482-My-First-Post-My-Auto-Scan ).
My wife was driving the car today and said that she experienced 2 hesitations when starting to move from a stop. Both times it was right after starting the engine but, it only happened twice. We live in southeast Arizona and the temperatures have gotten close to 100 degrees F.
I did another scan today with no trouble codes posted and only the same issues with an airbag and the electric heater element.
The vehicle has about 190K miles and the cam, lifters and timing belt were replaced about 20K miles ago. Any ideas?
Thanks, Steve.
 
   #2  

DrPeter

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Hello Steve,

The [02E] transmissions were not always the best, many did have drivability issues, including hesitations, juddering, delays when pulling away, etc...

There have been several updates and Technical Service Bulletins for these transmissions. There was even a "Customer Satisfaction Campaign " for the 2007 to 2009 vehicles, (Code:37E6)

Without fault codes it is a bit difficult to say for sure there is a concern with the transmission.
Have you ever serviced the transmission?

Volkswagen recommends a fluid and filter change every 40,000 miles. Perhaps you may want to start there? Based on the mileage [192,544 miles] your almost ready (7,456 miles away) for the 5th DSG service. You need to perform the Basic Settings after the DSG service.


If you would like to, you could post a controller channel map of the [02-Auto Trans], this way we can perhaps see a Measuring Value Block group that is not 'normal', but then again, what is normal for these known failures? p:

Under the [Applications] Screen, is the [Controller Channels Map] function. With the key on, engine running, enter in [02] for 'Controller address", select the "Measuring values" and "Pre-label" options and press [Go]. VCDS will now enter into the MVBs screen of the [02-Auto Trans] and capture the values from all the MVBs and put them into a "PLB" file, located in the [\Ross-Tech\VCDS\Logs] folder.

Use this link for more information about Control Module Maps

ref:
Code:
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.clb
   Part No SW: 02E 300 043     HW: 02E 927 770 AE
   Component: GSG DSG         070 1126  
   Revision: 04507000    Serial number: 00000511100418
   Coding: 0000020
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000



Hope this helps,

drpeter
 
   #3  

Ramp Rat

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Thanks DrPeter,
I did service the DSG about 4K miles ago. I did a fluid out / fluid in with a new filter. The fluid that came out was as clean as what I was putting in. From what I can find out the vehicle was serviced regularly. I did change the DMF about the same time.

However, I have not looked into the things your suggested with the VCDS. I will do so and see what I can find. It may take me a couple of days to get to it but I will follow up on this post with what I find.
Again, Thank You.
Steve.
 
   #4  

Ramp Rat

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OK, I did the Controller Channels Map and saved a PLB file in the VCDS Logs. Then I did the Basic Settings (which was a little different feeling the transmission do lots of things) and then a test drive. Everything shifted good and it was within the RPM range for shifting.
Thank you for that suggestion because I had no idea it needed to be done after service.

Now the bad news: I’ve got a PLB file but not only do I not know how to open it but I also don’t know how to upload it for you to look at. Any suggestions.
Thanks, Steve
 
   #5  

Uwe

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Now the bad news: I’ve got a PLB file but not only do I not know how to open it but I also don’t know how to upload it for you to look at.
It's just text. Open it with Notepad, copy & paste the contents here. Note however, that data in .CSV format would be preferred.

-Uwe-
 
   #6  

Jack@European_Parts

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Did you check battery + connections & belt/freewheel clutch pulley + charging system + ignition switch function or terminal relays status & since in such hot climate for sporadic issues such as this?

Did you check for a fuel leak plugged filter or air cleaner as in air making its way in too each & causing such issues too or fuel chiller is actually functional during latent heat at stops by logging fuel temps, MAF and IAT values.

What is timing actual reports in torsion during basic settings initiated & not corrected in blocks?

Carbon in intake or hung up TV, did you check adaption?
 
   #7  

Ramp Rat

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It's just text. Open it with Notepad, copy & paste the contents here. Note however, that data in .CSV format would be preferred.

-Uwe-

OK, here it goes. Sorry it's not .CSV. I didn't know.
This reading was taken before I did the Basic Settings.
BTW, Uwe, I like your Signature. People don't understand what Freedom is until you've had to fight for it.


Code:
 ;SW:02E-300-043   HW:02E-927-770-AE ---  Auto Trans
;Component:GSG DSG         070 1126, Coding:0000020
;Thursday,30,April,2020,10:06:06:03388
;VCDS Version: Release 20.4.1 (x64)  Data version: 20200331 DS317.0
;VCID: 51FF757A3DE9E9438C5-8004

1,0,,
1,1,,,
;Brakes,,
1,2,,,
;Brakes,,
1,3,,,
;PN Inactive,,
1,4,,,
;0.0 km/h,,
;
;
2,0,,
2,1,,,
; P,,
2,2,,,
; P,,
2,3,,,
;00000000,,
2,4,,,
; P,,
;
;
3,0,,
3,1,,,
; P,,
3,2,,,
; P,,
3,3,,,
;Not Oper.,,
3,4,,,
;Not Oper.,,
;
;
4,0,,
4,1,,,
; P,,
4,2,,,
;Not Recogn.,,
4,3,,,
;0 /min,,
4,4,,,
;0 /min,,
;
;
5,0,,
5,1,,,
; P,,
5,2,,,
;Activated,,
5,3,,,
;13.70 V,,
5,4,,,
;13.70 V,,
;
;
6,0,,
6,1,,,
; P,,
6,2,,,
;0.000 A,,
6,3,,,
;18.0 %,,
6,4,,,
;0.882 A,,
;
;
7,0,,
7,1,,,
; P,,
7,2,,,
;0.000 A,,
7,3,,,
;18.0 %,,
7,4,,,
;0.882 A,,
;
;
8,0,,
8,1,,,
;832 /min,,
8,2,,,
;0 /min,,
8,3,,,
;0 /min,,
8,4,,,
;0 /min,,
;
;
9,0,,
9,1,,,
;832 /min,,
9,2,,,
;832 /min,,
9,3,,,
;0 /min,,
9,4,,,
;0 /min,,
;
;
10,0,,
10,1,,,
;0.0 %,,
10,2,,,
; ,,
10,3,,,
;-4.0 Nm,,
10,4,,,
;48.0 Nm,,
;
;
11,0,,
11,1,,,
;0 /min,,
11,2,,,
;-600.0 Nm,,
11,3,,,
;0.000 A,,
11,4,,,
;0.00 bar,,
;
;
12,0,,
12,1,,,
;0 /min,,
12,2,,,
;-600.0 Nm,,
12,3,,,
;0.000 A,,
12,4,,,
;0.00 bar,,
;
;
13,0,,
13,1,,,
;0.000 A,,
13,2,,,
;18.0 %,,
13,3,,,
;0.0 %,,
13,4,,,
;0.0 %,,
;
;
14,0,,
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;0.000 A,,
14,2,,,
;18.0 %,,
14,3,,,
;0.0 %,,
14,4,,,
;0.0 %,,
;
;
15,0,,
15,1,,,
;523,,
15,2,,,
;275,,
15,3,,,
;513,,
15,4,,,
;292,,
;
;
16,0,,
16,1,,,
;0.2 mm,,
16,2,,,
;-8.3 mm,,
16,3,,,
;-0.3 mm,,
16,4,,,
;-8.5 mm,,
;
;
17,0,,
17,1,,,
;-2.8 mm,,
17,2,,,
;-2.9 mm,,
17,3,,,
;-0.3 mm,,
17,4,,,
;-2.8 mm,,
;
;
18,0,,
18,1,,,
;3.1 mm,,
18,2,,,
;3.0 mm,,
18,3,,,
;2.1 mm,,
18,4,,,
;2.5 mm,,
;
;
19,0,,
19,1,,,
;28.0°C,,
19,2,,,
;28.0°C,,
19,3,,,
;32.0°C,,
19,4,,,
;Idle,,
;
;
30,0,,
30,1,,,
;0.250 A,,
30,2,,,
;0.260 A,,
30,3,,,
;0.780 A,,
30,4,,,
;0.780 A,,
;
;
31,0,,
31,1,,,
;0.235 A,,
31,2,,,
;0.235 A,,
31,3,,,
;0.735 A,,
31,4,,,
;0.735 A,,
;
;
32,0,,
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;0.230 A,,
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;1.000 A,,
32,3,,,
;0.220 A,,
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;1.000 A,,
;
;
33,0,,
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;23566,,
33,2,,,
;0,,
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;20467,,
33,4,,,
;0,,
;
;
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;25757,,
34,2,,,
;0,,
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;17491,,
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;0,,
;
;
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;
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;4644,,
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;4518,,
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;5004,,
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;4655,,
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;
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;5117,,
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;4988,,
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;5009,,
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;5079,,
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;
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;5564,,
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;5459,,
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;5400,,
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;5469,,
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;
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;64794,,
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;0xFD1A,,
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; ,,
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; ,,
;
;
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;v069112602ea__getriebe_DSG_MR5O  ,,
;
;
48,0,,
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;C11,,
;
;
49,0,,
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;6.90 V,,
49,2,,,
;10.80 V,,
49,3,,,
;7.30 V,,
49,4,,,
;10.40 V,,
;
;
50,0,,
50,1,,,
;1K1 713025 L 0  1 C6,,
;
;
51,0,,
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;65535,,
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;65535,,
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;65535,,
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;65535,,
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;65535,,
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;65535,,
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;65535,,
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;65535,,
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;
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;65535,,
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;65535,,
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;65535,,
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;65535,,
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;F42F0185,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
;
;
63,0,,
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;0,,
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; ,,
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; ,,
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; ,,
;
;
64,0,,
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;0,,
64,2,,,
;0,,
64,3,,,
; ,,
64,4,,,
; ,,
;
;
65,0,,
65,1,,,
;0.95 bar,,
65,2,,,
;0.85 bar,,
65,3,,,
;0.85 bar,,
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;0.85 bar,,
;
;
66,0,,
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;   11111,,
66,2,,,
;   11111,,
66,3,,,
;   10101,,
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;   11111,,
;
;
67,0,,
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;0.250 A,,
67,2,,,
;0.235 A,,
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;N/A,,
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;N/A,,
;
;
68,0,,
68,1,,,
;0.230 A,,
68,2,,,
;0.220 A,,
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;N/A,,
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;N/A,,
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;      1 ,,
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;0   1   ,,
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;     1  ,,
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; ,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;N/A,,
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;N/A,,
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;0000300494  00001 00000 00195 ,,
;
;
72,0,,
72,1,,,
;0000141890  00000 00000 00501 ,,
;
;
80,0,,
80,1,,,
;TFK-030 10.11.05 04507000 8501 0418,,
;
;
81,0,,
81,1,,,
;<> 00000511100418 <>,,
;
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82,1,,,
;9010800002069 00.00.00 C30 01 <> <> ,,
;
;
90,0,,
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;65535,,
90,2,,,
;0,,
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;0.0 %,,
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;0,,
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;
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;0 /min,,
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;0 /min,,
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;0 /min,,
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;0 /min,,
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;0,,
92,2,,,
;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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93,0,,
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;0.000 A,,
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;0.000 A,,
93,3,,,
;0.000 A,,
93,4,,,
;-60.0°C,,
;
;
94,0,,
94,1,,,
;65535,,
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;0,,
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;0.0 %,,
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;0,,
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;0 /min,,
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;0 /min,,
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;0 /min,,
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;0 /min,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0,,
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;0.000 A,,
97,2,,,
;0.000 A,,
97,3,,,
;0.000 A,,
97,4,,,
;-60.0°C,,
;
;
104,0,,
104,1,,,
;0x0000,,
104,2,,,
;0x0000,,
104,3,,,
;0.00 V,,
104,4,,,
;-98.0 Nm,,
;
;
105,0,,
105,1,,,
;0.00 bar,,
105,2,,,
;0.000 A,,
105,3,,,
;0.00 bar,,
105,4,,,
;0.000 A,,
;
;
106,0,,
106,1,,,
;0x0000,,
106,2,,,
;0x0000,,
106,3,,,
;0.00 V,,
106,4,,,
;-98.0 Nm,,
;
;
107,0,,
107,1,,,
;0.00 bar,,
107,2,,,
;0.000 A,,
107,3,,,
;0.00 bar,,
107,4,,,
;0.000 A,,
;
;
109,0,,
109,1,,,
;311840 km,,
109,2,,,
;98.0 %,,
109,3,,,
;0.0 %,,
109,4,,,
;1.5 %,,
;
;
110,0,,
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;0 km,,
110,2,,,
;N/A,,
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;N/A,,
110,4,,,
;N/A,,
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;
111,0,,
111,1,,,
;0 km,,
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;N/A,,
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;N/A,,
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;N/A,,
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;100.0 %,,
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;0,,
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;17530,,
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;Engine 1,,
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;ABS 1,,
125,3,,,
;Instruments 1,,
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;Sel.Lev. 1,,
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126,0,,
126,1,,,
;Gateway 1,,
126,2,,,
;St. Wheel 1,,
126,3,,,
;Steer. ang. 1,,
126,4,,,
;Park Brake 0,,
;
;
130,0,,
130,1,,,
;3420 km,,
130,2,,,
;0,,
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;3420 km,,
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;0,,
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;0.0,,
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;0.0,,
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;0.0,,
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;0.0,,
226,4,,,
;255.0,,
;
;
 
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   #8  

Jack@European_Parts

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People don't understand what Freedom is until you've had to fight for it.

MOS?
What is the ramp that ramp rat played on and what were you ramping up?
:rolleyes:
 
   #9  

Ramp Rat

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Did you check battery + connections & belt/freewheel clutch pulley + charging system + ignition switch function or terminal relays status & since in such hot climate for sporadic issues such as this?

Did you check for a fuel leak plugged filter or air cleaner as in air making its way in too each & causing such issues too or fuel chiller is actually functional during latent heat at stops by logging fuel temps, MAF and IAT values.

What is timing actual reports in torsion during basic settings initiated & not corrected in blocks?

Carbon in intake or hung up TV, did you check adaption?

Wow! Such a shopping list.

I did a whole lot of work on this vehicle about 4K miles / 8 months ago. I am anal about batteries and connections. Southeast Arizona is harder on batteries then the west coast of Kalifornia.
Belt and charging system are good. The ignition switch and relays work but is there a test that can be done using the VCDS?

New fuel and oil filter with no leaks. I checked the air filter which had some soot from the pre-heater. It seems like the control valve doesn’t close all the way and because of the warm climate I live in, I’m thinking of using a nut or something to close the valve all the way.

Now the idea of the fuel system getting heat soaked has my attention. As I understand the system, the fuel cooler is mounted under the vehicle and could be getting large amounts of heat from the hot pavement while sitting still. If that is possible, how can it be dealt with?

“. . . timing actual reports in torsion during basic settings . . . “. I have no idea but, the VCDS did save some PLB logs after I did the Basic Settings process. Don’t know if that would help by posting one of them?

As for Carbon in the intake. I did clean out some black carbon slug from the intake but I didn’t remove the complete intake and burn anything out. Again, another dumb question, how do I “Check Adaption”?

Hope my answers make some sense.
Steve.
 
   #10  

Ramp Rat

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MOS?
What is the ramp that ramp rat played on and what were you ramping up?
:rolleyes:

OK, here’s the Readers Digest version of a long story.
In a previous life I started working an aircraft with the USAF in Vietnam. Later I got into general aviation and found a love for helping people keep older vintage aircraft flying. The term “Ramp Rat” was an old expression of an A&P mechanic who would travel from airport to airport working on the Ramp out of the back of his car. Because I have two sons who have aircraft and live one and two states away, my tool box is an enclosed trailer that is my mobile shop. So, with tongue in cheek, I printed up some joke business cards that have a cartoon rat image and the words: “Ramp Rat Air”.
I know, kinda dumb but there it is. ;)
Steve.
 
   #11  

Jack@European_Parts

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On cars with fuel temp being too hot from latent paved deserts. I take an air scoop with Y connection to grab air during travel and switched by temp control with a fan mounted at a higher location.

Example!

https://images.app.goo.gl/G4JwZMwy9M3b5s8w7

G4JwZMwy9M3b5s8w7


Flat vent ducts from car floors for heat in rear seat area or like in the Huey venturi coolers or other aircraft works, maybe custom stuff with plastic welder or glorified solder iron?

My old man.

http://hueygunner.com/about-us.html

Thank you for your service sir, most appreciated!
 
Last edited:
   #12  

Ramp Rat

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On cars with fuel temp being too hot from latent paved deserts. I take an air scoop with Y connection to grab air during travel and switched by temp control with a fan mounted at a higher location.

Example!

https://images.app.goo.gl/G4JwZMwy9M3b5s8w7

G4JwZMwy9M3b5s8w7


Flat vent ducts from car floors for heat in rear seat area or like in the Huey venturi coolers or other aircraft works, maybe custom stuff with plastic welder or glorified solder iron?

My old man.

http://hueygunner.com/about-us.html

Thank you for your service sir, most appreciated!

I’ll look at and think about the extra cooling. Right now it’s just starting to get hot around here. We haven’t even gotten to August yet.
That’s when the lizards run around with sticks in their mouths. They run for a while, stop and stand on the stick to cool their feet off. Then they pick up the stick and start running again.

No need to thank me for my service. Like your Dad, it was my honor to serve this Great Nation.
He and I were raised by the “Greatest Generation”. During WWII my mother was a civilian driver for the Army. My Dad joined the Marines when he was 17. He survived Iwo Jima and got his Purple Heart there.

I don’t know a single veteran that joined to fight for Socialism. God Bless America.
Steve
 
   #13  

Ramp Rat

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A little follow up to my hesitation problem. Background is that the vehicle is a 2006 Jetta TDI with DSG. I posted my original scan: https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?20482-My-First-Post-My-Auto-Scan Everything was serviced about 4,000 miles ago including a new DMF and I did a Basic Setting on the tranny in April.
It still has a hesitation but only under certain conditions. After the vehicle has warmed up and it only seems to happen at curse speed. While driving on an uphill incline with what I would call rolling hills. The cruise control set at 65mph (about 2350 rpm) when the uphill incline has a slight increase there will be a hesitation but it only last for a split second. It won’t do it again until the next slight increase. The transmission stays in 6th gear and I don’t notice any change in rpm but I can hear and feel a very small change in engine power. It almost feels like a transmission torque converter kicking in and out but no indication on the Tach.
When I drive the same kind on terrain at 55 mph there is no hesitation.
I just did a Controller Value Map and saved it as a CSV file. I’ll try and upload it. Because the vehicle has 190K plus miles on it, if it might be related to the turbo or EGR system?

Best I can do is an gmail drive link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eZIxSz1eKEnKlc9if7fGfwjNOUi6Q1sK/view?usp=sharing

Thanks for any help, Steve
 
   #15  

Ramp Rat

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Since load request related might be a MAF.......?

Would that be enough to set a DTC? (Which hasn’t as yet). Is there a way to check its operation with the VCDS? If so what would be the acceptable values?

Another issue I noticed.
Just for the heck of it I removed the intake tube between the intercooler and the flapper valve. I found some small pools of oil in the low spots. I haven’t checked the lower intake connection of the intercooler but remember checking it about 1,000 miles ago with nothing noted. I’m assuming that oil getting into the intercooler would come from a bad seal in the turbocharger.
Any thoughts on that? Thank you. Steve.
 
   #16  

Jack@European_Parts

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Would that be enough to set a DTC? (Which hasn’t as yet). Is there a way to check its operation with the VCDS? If so what would be the acceptable values?

Did you know it often isn't?

Immaterial.......since variable and the stack doesn't do its job anyway, now does it?

Another issue I noticed.
Just for the heck of it I removed the intake tube between the intercooler and the flapper valve. I found some small pools of oil in the low spots. I haven’t checked the lower intake connection of the intercooler but remember checking it about 1,000 miles ago with nothing noted. I’m assuming that oil getting into the intercooler would come from a bad seal in the turbocharger.
Any thoughts on that? Thank you. Steve.

Maybe an observation of crankcase sump level, oil quality, fuel contamination, blow by gasses PSI, PCV bifurcation tests surmised or the installation of a Provent would maybe help?

Z

2Q==


https://oe-products.mann-hummel.com...ummel/kurbelgehauseentlueftung/ProVent_en.pdf

Provent200_.jpg
 
   #17  

Ramp Rat

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I just did a cranking compression test. I didn’t do a differential compression test er, sorry, leak down test. With an automatic it’s hard to keep the piston at TDC. With an aircraft you just hold the propeller.

The test showed all cylinders within limits. 25-1/2 to 27 Bars. I also didn’t bother squirting oil in the cylinders to see if there was any change in the compression because of rings. With all the cylinders being that close to each other I can’t see a reason to consider tearing the engine down and putting new rings in it. When the engine is running you can put a glass of water on it and not spill a drop.

As you suggested I’m thinking about the MAF sensor but now with the film of oil mixed in the intake air, I’m wondering if the Pressure Sensor near the discharge end of the intercooler might not be contaminated with oil? And, would this affect its readings. I’ve seen MAP sensors on gas engines with aftermarket oil air cleaners cause problems until you clean them.

Guess I’ll do some more investigating. Thank you for the ideas, it always helps.
Steve.
 
   #18  

Jack@European_Parts

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I just did a cranking compression test. I didn’t do a differential compression test er, sorry, leak down test. With an automatic it’s hard to keep the piston at TDC. With an aircraft you just hold the propeller.

The test showed all cylinders within limits. 25-1/2 to 27 Bars. I also didn’t bother squirting oil in the cylinders to see if there was any change in the compression because of rings. With all the cylinders being that close to each other I can’t see a reason to consider tearing the engine down and putting new rings in it. When the engine is running you can put a glass of water on it and not spill a drop.

As you suggested I’m thinking about the MAF sensor but now with the film of oil mixed in the intake air, I’m wondering if the Pressure Sensor near the discharge end of the intercooler might not be contaminated with oil? And, would this affect its readings. I’ve seen MAP sensors on gas engines with aftermarket oil air cleaners cause problems until you clean them.

Guess I’ll do some more investigating. Thank you for the ideas, it always helps.
Steve.


I was going to say you could check the MAP G31, however, it's pretty rare a failure on these or less likely in comparison to what you aforementioned.

You could always log the MAP and IAT for glitch in VCDS. :rolleyes:
 
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