General Corona Virus Discussion

Hi Petroldave,
Is it realistic to compare a country with a population of 25 people per sq km, with England 429 per sq km, the US 34 per sq km, or perhaps more pertinent to this discussion Pennsylvania 283 per sq mile!
Regards HMC

HMC said:

Is it realistic to compare a country with a population of 25 people per sq km, with England 429 per sq km, the US 34 per sq km, or perhaps more pertinent to this discussion Pennsylvania 283 per sq mile!

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Yes, because Sweden has cities that are just as densely populated as the cities in any other country.

-Uwe-

PetrolDave said:

If Sweden manages to limit/control the death rate due to Covid-19 without imposing a lockdown then the whole philosophy behind needing a lockdown will be shown to be unnecessarily damaging to economies IMHO.

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Or, it will be shown that small and highly ordered societies where citizens mostly understand and follow their responsibilities in this situation, and mostly relieved of external sources of (re)infection, are able to handle it more successfully than larger and more densely populated countries with more travel, who have a large population of deadweight that marches in crowds shouting about how responsible they totally WOULD be, if only they hadn't been told they MUST be responsible.

Stockholm authorities shut down five pubs and restaurants that failed to observe the recommendations this weekend, only allowing customers time to finish their food before obliging them to leave.

“This was a strong signal,” Linde said. “These are not voluntary measures. You are meant to follow them. We believe the best way for us is a combination of some binding regulations and clear advice to the public. As far as possible, we want to build on a strong, longstanding relationship of trust between authorities and the public.”

There is plenty of evidence that most people are falling in line, she said, citing a 96% fall in reservations at the country’s two most popular domestic holiday destinations after the government repeated its advice to stay at home over the Easter break. The country’s rate of infection is also showing signs of levelling off and the Public Health Agency estimates up to 20% of its population has contracted the virus.

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ens-light-touch-on-covid-19-yet-says-minister

jyoung8607 said:

Or, it will be shown that small and highly ordered societies where citizens mostly understand and follow their responsibilities in this situation, and mostly relieved of external sources of (re)infection, are able to handle it more successfully than larger and more densely populated countries with more travel, who have a large population of deadweight that marches in crowds shouting about how responsible they totally WOULD be, if only they hadn't been told they MUST be responsible.

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As Uwe points out the population density in Sweden's cities is similar to those in other countries, plus a large number of Stockholm residents have country dachas which they travel to at every opportunity.

Fair point though that discipline is generally better in Sweden (most Nordic countries) than in some parts of the Western world - where an "I'm alright Jack" attitude seems almost to be encouraged by some leaders (political and business).

Family members in medical industry, have a similar distrust of CDC!

Even Tom figured out just because it's written, doesn't make it so!

jyoung8607 said:

it isn't even tyranny.

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Right, nothing to see here, move along.

Lone paddle boarder chased by police boat, arrested
Couple arrested for grocery shopping
Police issue $500 tickets to drive-in church service attendees
Maryland restaurant swarmed by 15 officers for serving to gathered takeout crowd
Fifteen men arrested for attending a funeral
Three men arrested for playing golf in the wrong state
Two women arrested for offering beauty services in their homes

-Uwe-

My friend JR lost his mom in CA this last week due too COVID and it was locked down hard where she was, so it's flat out pervasive and nasty on the old timers!

It's spreading through the homes like Locusts.........




Your perspective will change when it is on your door step or affects loved ones.

I think healthcare people deserve one hell of an award for going into that trench everyday, specifically ICU and ER!

Jack@European_Parts said:

My friend JR lost his mom in CA this last week due too COVID and it was locked down hard where she was, so it's flat out pervasive and nasty on the old timers!

It's spreading through the homes like Locusts.........

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Was she in a nursing home or other long-term care facility?

-Uwe-

Was she in a nursing home or other long-term care facility?

-Uwe-

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Indeed she was.........

Uwe said:

Right, nothing to see here, move along.

Lone paddle boarder chased by police boat, arrested
Couple arrested for grocery shopping
Police issue $500 tickets to drive-in church service attendees
Maryland restaurant swarmed by 15 officers for serving to gathered takeout crowd
Fifteen men arrested for attending a funeral
Three men arrested for playing golf in the wrong state
Two women arrested for offering beauty services in their homes

-Uwe-

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Seven great examples of why voluntary measures alone wouldn't have worked. The grocery-shopping one gives me a little pause, as does the Maryland restaurant one, but both of those are situations where there's definitely a few details the the poor aggrieved victim left out. Police officers are doing social distancing just like everyone else. If they're hauling you in, you really needed hauling in.

Jack@European_Parts said:

Indeed she was.........

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Which mean the place wasn't as "locked down" as hard as you think it was. Staff in and out. I bet some of the staff even worked in more than one facility and/or provided care in private homes on the side.

While we're on the subject of nursing homes, how many nursing home residents in NYS do you think got infected and died due to this order?

-Uwe-

Even social distance is not going to fix this because at some point it will get to the weak.

It's much worse than a flu.....and kills fast.

Only thing to fix this is a vaccine or it burning itself out by herd. I do think that hospitals could easily be overwhelmed if the distance isn't used, however, I think it's far more humane to die with families at home than via a Skype/Zoom camera.

Plus there is something to be said about emotional support just being around people that you know versus the anxiety of dying alone in a ditch.

Even an animal gives up the will to live in an emotional distraught situation and is why people get put out in an induced coma.



https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/28/emts-a28.html

Two New York City health care workers commit suicide within 48 hours

Can anyone explain this?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db355.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

According to the CDC the weekly deaths from all causes for weeks 1 through 16 of 2019 and 2020 were:

1 2019 58289 2020 58961
2 2019 58351 2020 58962
3 2019 58193 2020 57371
4 2019 57834 2020 56666
5 2019 58122 2020 55849
6 2019 58489 2020 55992
7 2019 57915 2020 54246
8 2019 57856 2020 53745
9 2019 57915 2020 53382
10 2019 58488 2020 51978
11 2019 57869 2020 47655
12 2019 57086 2020 40002
13 2019 56671 2020 55778
14 2019 56594 2020 60195
15 2019 55472 2020 55773
16 2019 54450 2020 28374

Here's the cumulative 2019 and 2020 numbers with the difference between them:

1 2019 58289 2020 58961 672
2 2019 116640 2020 117923 1283
3 2019 174833 2020 175294 461
4 2019 232667 2020 231960 -707
5 2019 290789 2020 287809 -2980
6 2019 349278 2020 343801 -5477
7 2019 407193 2020 398047 -9146
8 2019 465049 2020 451792 -13257
9 2019 522964 2020 505174 -17790
10 2019 581452 2020 557152 -24300
11 2019 639321 2020 604807 -34514
12 2019 696407 2020 644809 -51598
13 2019 753078 2020 700587 -52491
14 2019 809672 2020 760782 -48890
15 2019 865144 2020 816555 -48589
16 2019 919594 2020 844929 -74665

So far this year, almost 75,000 fewer people have died of all causes compared to 2019. "In 2018, the 10 leading causes of death (heart disease, cancer, unintentional injuries, chronic lower respiratory diseases, stroke, Alzheimer disease, diabetes, influenza and pneumonia, kidney disease, and suicide) ". Even if you assume correctly that fewer people die on the roads due to greatly reduced travel, what is responsible for this reduction? Also is this now a new problem where there are 75,000 additional people living in the US that require food, shelter, all the regular things that people need?

Can anyone explain this?

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/\ That is because less people are out statistically during lock down economic prison sentence? ..........





Ummm let's see, because you Govern a large amount of ignorant people too & maybe that "sum" or "some" take everything you say literally?

Trump says he 'can't imagine why' there was a spike in calls to emergency hotlines in several states after he 'sarcastically' mused about injecting disinfectant to cure the coronavirus


https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...isinfectant-to-cure-the-coronavirus/24129227/


Sounds like the need for a Mr Yuk campaign for adults?



Don't eat/drink or Inject it!

Vietnam War...
The U.S. military reported 58,220 American casualties.

Getting close....

As of June 29, 2016, according to the U.S. Department of Defense casualty website, there were 4,424 total deaths (including both killed in action and non-hostile) and 31,952 wounded in action (WIA) as a result of the Iraq War.


Well we exceeded that....

Jack@European_Parts said:

/\ That is because less people are out statistically during lock down economic prison sentence? ..........

Ummm let's see, because you Govern a large amount of ignorant people too & maybe that "sum" or "some" take everything you say literally?

Trump says he 'can't imagine why' there was a spike in calls to emergency hotlines in several states after he 'sarcastically' mused about injecting disinfectant to cure the coronavirus


https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...isinfectant-to-cure-the-coronavirus/24129227/


Sounds like the need for a Mr Yuk campaign for adults?

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We stopped by Target today. Still ZERO bleach products in stock, but we usually see a thing or three of tp or paper towels every now and then.

Oh and there's now a huge sign at the entrance, something like, "IF YOU ARE SICK YOU CAN'T SHOP HERE". Crazy times.

Jack@European_Parts said:

Even social distance is not going to fix this because at some point it will get to the weak.

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Yes, it will, unless we take extraordinary measures to protect the weak. But the measures we've taken so far (which include locking down people who are at virtually no risk of dying) don't seem to be doing that, so maybe it's time to re-evaluate them and figure out how to better protect them, while letting those at little risk get back to living productive and fulfilling lives?

Jack@European_Parts said:

It's much worse than a flu.....and kills fast.

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See my next reply.

Jack@European_Parts said:

Only thing to fix this is a vaccine or it burning itself out by herd.

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I agree, but we cannot count on a vaccine. The absolute best case to get one developed, tested, and produced in sufficient quantities to make a a real dent in this thing is about 18 months, and that's likely very optimistic. I'll also point out that there is no such thing as a vaccine for any corona virus in people; there are some corona virus vaccines for animals, but none of them provide permanent protection. Oh, and where's the HIV vaccine that the good Dr. Fauci promised us almost 40 years ago?

The situation sucks, but it is the realitity we must deal with, and leaving half the economy shut down while waiting for a vaccine is not a workable approach.

-Uwe-

Jack@European_Parts said:

Vietnam War...
The U.S. military reported 58,220 American casualties.

Getting close....

As of June 29, 2016, according to the U.S. Department of Defense casualty website, there were 4,424 total deaths (including both killed in action and non-hostile) and 31,952 wounded in action (WIA) as a result of the Iraq War.


Well we exceeded that....

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How is that a relevant comparison?

Just over 100 years ago, between 500,000 to 850,000 died in the USA of the "Spanish" flu, and that was at a time when the US population was about 1/3 what it is now. So an equivalently bad epidemic now would kill between 1.5 and 2.5 million people.

In 1968-69, roughly 100,000 people died of "Hong Kong" flu in the USA, and the population was ~2/3rds what it is now, so the current epidemic would have to kill ~150,000 people to be comparable. Did we shut most of the country down and initiate an economic depression in 1968/1969?

So how do you figure that it's "much worse than a flu"?

-Uwe-

There is no end in sight. We need to sustain under 30 per day for 2 weeks. Last I checked Philadelphia is worse. And of course... Philly must also be at the under 50/100,000 mark for us to reopen...

I see no way this benchmark set out by the Governor continues to be used as time goes on. Southeast PA is months away from opening at this rate. Sooner or later people are going to riot.

Andy said:

Can anyone explain this?

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I am only seeing data being compared between 2017 and 2018... where are you getting the info from in these links?