Hot sunny weather intermittent alarm

mmjojomm · Apr 20, 2020

Hi,
as title say, in very hot sunny weather my alarm is going off intermittently.
Ive tried in the past to switch off internal monitoring and i think that helps, but cannot say for sure as as mentioned it is intermittent.
There are no faults on the scan ( apart of radio -i have third party non canbus one) , and checked last four alarm events and all indicate 160 -there is no explanation for 160.
Ive dialled down internal monitoring now from 70 to 50 which is minimum value. it used to be 100 but few months ago ive tuned them down to 70 which did not help.
Ive checked all door/bonnet/tailgate switches in vcds, all seems to be operating fine.
car is 09 multivan/caravelle

any ideas?

cheers
joe

Dana · Apr 20, 2020

Please post the Auto-Scan so we can see if Alarm Source history is supported by the control module.

mmjojomm · Apr 20, 2020

Hi scan As per below.
however, i was fixing some other issues so ive erased all errors and no alarms since, not sure if that would do difference.
all 4 banks shows as last alarm 160.
someone on different forum suggested to add two corresponding numbers as 128 (internal monitoring) +32 (bonnet switch) saying if two events occur at the same time this is what it should be?
cheers

Code:

Monday,20,April,2020,17:26:43:29833
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x86
VCDS Version: 20.4.0.1
Data version: 20200331 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WV2ZZZ7HZ9H11***   License Plate: 
Mileage: 182890km-113642mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 7H (7H - VW Transporter/Multivan (2003 > 2010))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0B 0D 15 16 17 18 19 1C 22 2D 37 45 46 47 56
          57 6E 76 77 78 7D
 
VIN: WV2ZZZ7HZ9H11***   Mileage: 182890km-113642miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: None
   Part No SW: 022 906 032 MK    HW: 022 906 032 
   Component: T5-3.2-AQ-EU4   G   3035  
   Coding: 0001075
   Shop #: WSC 02756 790 00000
   VCID: 60CE248AB0372A8662-515E

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
   Part No SW: 09K 927 750 N    HW: 09K 927 750 N
   Component: AQ 250 6F           1397  
   Revision: 00H83000    Serial number:               
   Coding: 0000328
   Shop #: WSC 02756 790 00000
   VCID: 408EC40A10F74A8642-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 7H0-907-37x-ESP.lbl
   Part No SW: 7H0 907 379 R    HW: 7H0 907 379 R
   Component: ESP MK25E1          0104  
   Revision: 00H31001    
   Coding: 0002603
   Shop #: WSC 02756 790 00000
   VCID: 4486C81A04EF56A666-5122

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No: 7H2 907 040 E
   Component: CLIMAtronic T5      4327  
   Coding: 0011020
   Shop #: WSC 02757 790 00000
   VCID: 2A5A86A2868BA0D67C-5122

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 7H5 907 049 F
   Component: Display_2_ClimaT5   0602

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 7H0-937-049.lbl
   Part No: 7H0 937 049 AE
   Component: BORDNETZ SGVER 1.0  2101  
   Coding: 0001895
   Shop #: WSC 00504 210 86030
   VCID: 75E065DE1FB5BF2E21-5122

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 0D: Slide Door, Left        Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No: 7H0 959 243 L
   Component: Schiebetuer-SG  404 0321  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 3B74B3E67911295E17-5122

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
   Component: 11 AIRBAG VW61 0R   0004  
   Coding: 12593
   Shop #: WSC 02756  
   VCID: 275C7F96C5999DBE63-5122

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 7Hx-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 7H5 920 973 H
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V03  
   Coding: 05413
   Shop #: WSC 00001  
   VCID: 3A7AB6E2262B10560C-5140
   WV2ZZZ7HZ9H113441     VWZ7Z0H0143333

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 02756  
   VCID: 70EE54CA30D79A06F2-5122

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor        Labels: 7Hx-951-171.lbl
   Part No: 7H5 951 171 C
   Component: Innenraumueberw.    2917  
   Coding: 0000012
   Shop #: WSC 02757 790 00000
   VCID: 2F6C97B6BD69C5FEAB-5198

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 7H5 951 178 
   Component: Innenraumueberw.    1607

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 7H0-959-433.lbl
   Part No: 7H0 959 433 B
   Component: C1W Komfortgerát     0004  
   Coding: 00030
   Shop #: WSC 02756  
   VCID: 326A9EC2FE5BE816C4-4B1A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist        Labels: 7E0-919-283.lbl
   Part No: 7E0 919 283 
   Component: Parkingsyst. T5 T5M 801  
   Coding: 01127
   Shop #: WSC 02756  
   VCID: 6CD640BA1CFF7EE6CE-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 78: Slide Door, Right        Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No: 7H0 959 243 L
   Component: Schiebetuer-SG  404 0321  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 3B74B3E67911295E17-5122

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 05:49)--------------------------

Dana · Apr 20, 2020

Thanks for the scan. Normally you have 4 alarm sources (listed from left to right most recent to oldest) that directly match alarm source documentation. Although I've never encountered one that was additive (the sum of 2 sources) I wouldn't completely dismiss the theory.

I would be tempted to change/clear those by locking the vehicle with a window open (or while sitting inside it), opening the hood or a door from the inside handle and then repeating 4 times so all 4 sources are different. If you were to do so using the hood all 4 fields should show 32 = Hood Contact Switch and that would be a good way to confirm this module actually shows 32 when there was known hood/bonnet activation.

mmjojomm · Apr 29, 2020

hi,
so ive tested the alarm as suggested. opened bonnet, closed the door, sit inside, only interior alarm was picked up 128. bonnet closed, me sitting inside, again only interior alarm was picked up 128. I was waiting for another alarm self occurrence, and ive got it on monday and again it is 160.

so the 4 banks are now: 160, 128, 128, 160.

any idea please?

mmjojomm · May 1, 2020

anybody has an idea what is a 160 alarm code?

PetrolDave · May 1, 2020

mmjojomm said:
anybody has an idea what is a 160 alarm code?

160 = 128 + 32; so it's both of those alarm causes

NEtech · May 1, 2020

For the value +128 have you checked MWB 004 in [45 Inter. Monitor] ?

Dana · May 1, 2020

Thanks Niels! That group isn't in the EN label but I see that it is alarm source specific to address 45.

For the OP, the 7Hx-951-171.lbl German label shows:

;004,1,Alarmquelle
; 0 = kein Alarm erkannt
; 2 = Sende-/Empfangsmodul 1 für Innenraumüberwachung (G303)
; 4 = Sende-/Empfangsmodul 2 für Innenraumüberwachung (G305)
; 5 = Geber für Fahrzeugneigung (G384)
; 6 = Geber für Fahrzeugneigung (G384)

Edit; That may be commented out due to lack of accuracy/feedback but it will be helpful to check the stored values.

Internal. Small change pushed to Commit 33598612

mmjojomm · May 2, 2020

NEtech said:
For the value +128 have you checked MWB 004 in [45 Inter. Monitor] ?

hi, im not sure if i understand. i thought ive posted measuring blocks, and currently are 160, 128, 128, 160

or is there somewhere else to check?
thanks

mmjojomm · May 2, 2020

Dana said:
Thanks Niels! That group isn't in the EN label but I see that it is alarm source specific to address 45.

For the OP, the 7Hx-951-171.lbl German label shows:

;004,1,Alarmquelle
; 0 = kein Alarm erkannt
; 2 = Sende-/Empfangsmodul 1 für Innenraumüberwachung (G303)
; 4 = Sende-/Empfangsmodul 2 für Innenraumüberwachung (G305)
; 5 = Geber für Fahrzeugneigung (G384)
; 6 = Geber für Fahrzeugneigung (G384)

Edit; That may be commented out due to lack of accuracy/feedback but it will be helpful to check the stored values.

Internal. Small change pushed to Commit 33598612

HI,
could i please know what to do with this information, i know only basic things in VCDS

thank you

NEtech · May 2, 2020

Go to [Inter. Monitor-45]
[Meas. Blocks-08]
Choose Group 004
What value do you have in field 1 ?

mmjojomm · May 2, 2020

NEtech said:
Go to [Inter. Monitor-45]
[Meas. Blocks-08]
Choose Group 004
What value do you have in field 1 ?

ok,
so alarm went of on its own twice today. and measuring blocks are now 160, 128, 160, 128,

as for inter.monitor.45 blocks 5, 5, 5, 2

and this is translation of sort:
0 = no alarm detected
; 2 = transmitter / receiver module 1 for interior monitoring (G303)
; 4 = transmitter / receiver module 2 for interior monitoring (G305)
; 5 = encoder for vehicle inclination (G384)
; 6 = encoder for vehicle inclination (G384)

car is parked on the curb with one side, could this be anything to do with anything?

thanks
jo

PetrolDave · May 3, 2020

mmjojomm said:
as for inter.monitor.45 blocks 5, 5, 5, 2

and this is translation of sort:
0 = no alarm detected
; 2 = transmitter / receiver module 1 for interior monitoring (G303)
; 4 = transmitter / receiver module 2 for interior monitoring (G305)
; 5 = encoder for vehicle inclination (G384)
; 6 = encoder for vehicle inclination (G384)

car is parked on the curb with one side, could this be anything to do with anything?

Since 5 = encoder for vehicle inclination, parking with one side on the curb could definitely be a factor.

Is there a way to disable the inclination detection? (on my previous B7 Audi there was a switch by the drivers door opening)

BTW in a previous role I worked for a sports car manufacturer, we had lots of customer reports of alarm triggers in warm/hot weather caused by the ultrasonic movement detectors being set off by thermal air currents inside the cars - so we switched to microwave alarm sensors and the problem went away. So for the 2 (interior monitoring) I would suggest checking out the G303 sensor, and look for ways to disable the interior monitoring for fault finding.

mmjojomm · May 3, 2020

PetrolDave said:
Since 5 = encoder for vehicle inclination, parking with one side on the curb could definitely be a factor.

Is there a way to disable the inclination detection? (on my previous B7 Audi there was a switch by the drivers door opening)

BTW in a previous role I worked for a sports car manufacturer, we had lots of customer reports of alarm triggers in warm/hot weather caused by the ultrasonic movement detectors being set off by thermal air currents inside the cars - so we switched to microwave alarm sensors and the problem went away. So for the 2 (interior monitoring) I would suggest checking out the G303 sensor, and look for ways to disable the interior monitoring for fault finding.

hi,
yes ive got buttons for disabling inclination and internal monitoring. Ive already set lowest sensitivity for interior monitoring, so not sure if turbulent hot air should/would be picked up. - it is possible as caravelle has got a massive inner space for air movement. i could not say this with certainty, but in past when i had the issue lets say when camping, i would disable interior monitoring when i was going away for hike so car would not beep and annoy another people.
however i was away from the car so would not know for sure if it had worked.

PetrolDave · May 3, 2020

mmjojomm said:
yes ive got buttons for disabling inclination and internal monitoring.

Try disabling both of those and see if the alarm still triggers.

ai_Ingo · May 8, 2020

Hi,if the vehicle is on the sidewalk edge, this has no effect on the function. Precisely it means: towing protection The transmitter / receiver module 1 for interior monitoring master is the encoder for vehicle inclination G384. It detects the vehicle's angle of inclination between - 25 ° and + 25 ° in longitudinal and transverse inclinations. When the anti-theft alarm system is activated, the current tilt angle is saved. A constant cyclical comparison between the stored and the current inclination angle detects a change and triggers an alarm. This means that the inclination sensor is integrated in the control unit. It works as follows: This micromechanical, capacitive sensor is a spring-loaded mass. This mass is partly between the two plates of a capacitor.
If the sensor is moved from the rest position - the vehicle is raised - the mass approaches one of the two capacitor plates. This approximation changes the capacitance of the capacitor. The change in capacity is sent as a signal to the central control unit for the convenience system, which in turn triggers the anti-theft alarm system.

mmjojomm · May 11, 2020

ai_Ingo said:
Hi,if the vehicle is on the sidewalk edge, this has no effect on the function. Precisely it means: towing protection The transmitter / receiver module 1 for interior monitoring master is the encoder for vehicle inclination G384. It detects the vehicle's angle of inclination between - 25 ° and + 25 ° in longitudinal and transverse inclinations. When the anti-theft alarm system is activated, the current tilt angle is saved. A constant cyclical comparison between the stored and the current inclination angle detects a change and triggers an alarm. This means that the inclination sensor is integrated in the control unit. It works as follows: This micromechanical, capacitive sensor is a spring-loaded mass. This mass is partly between the two plates of a capacitor.
If the sensor is moved from the rest position - the vehicle is raised - the mass approaches one of the two capacitor plates. This approximation changes the capacitance of the capacitor. The change in capacity is sent as a signal to the central control unit for the convenience system, which in turn triggers the anti-theft alarm system.

Hi,
thank you for explaining how it works. So, how do i figure out whats triggering my alarm and leave 160 value ?

cheers

Dana · May 11, 2020

That depends. If disabling both inclination -and- interior monitoring prevented the alarm activation (per Dave's suggestion) you may want to disable one for a test period and then switch back to disabling the other for a separate test period. Doing so might allow you to confirm which one of the functions is directly responsible.

However, if you wanted to rule out all functions of address 45 Interior monitoring entirely rather than testing using the above method I would unplug the #45 control module. Doing so may result in a few no communication DTCs but it would rule out that module, and all internal functions of it, as possible alarm sources. Depending on the wiring configuration you may be able to pull a fuse instead however I wasn't able to look up vehicle specific diagrams without the VIN so I don't know if that's possible.

Hot sunny weather intermittent alarm

mmjojomm

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Dana

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mmjojomm

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mmjojomm

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