Golf mk5 2008 diesel cranks but won't start

   #1  

Vasco Ferraz

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Hi,

My car cranks but won't start.

Fuel level is about half but the fuel filter reservoir is empty.

So, I believe that the fuel sender might be broken and I might have ran out of fuel.

I filled the fuel filter reservoir and the tank with a total of about 6 litres.

I primed the fuel system using VCDS for more than 3 times 30 seconds each.

But the car still won't start :|

There are no codes.

Am I doing something wrong?
- Is 6 litres enough?
- Should I prime again the fuel?
- Should I open or close some valve/purge?
- Should I fill some injector hose with fuel?

Thanks


Code:
Thursday,09,April,2020,17:37:50:51935
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 20.4.0.1 (x64)  HEX-NET CB: 0.4513.4
Data version: 20200331 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ8W245642   License Plate: 
Mileage: 323750km-201168mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 37 42 44 46 52 56 62 72

VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ8W245642   Mileage: 323750km-201168miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
37-Navigation -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 03G-906-021-BLS.clb
   Part No SW: 03G 906 056 J    HW: 03G 906 021 AB
   Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG  1785  
   Revision: --H07---    Serial number: VWX7Z0H13N6913
   Coding: 0000071
   Shop #: WSC 01392 785 00200
   VCID: 2E10DD6AB9DD9AF6A0-807A

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 1 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AC    HW: 1K0 907 379 AC
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0101  
   Revision: 00H11001    
   Coding: 0021121
   Shop #: WSC 01392 785 00200
   VCID: 73A60C1E127FF71E0F-8026

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1K0-907-044.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 044 DD    HW: 1K0 907 044 DD
   Component: ClimatronicPQ35 130 1213  
   Revision: 00130023    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 6C9417624F4128E6CE-8038

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 3C0-937-049-30-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 3C0 937 049 AJ    HW: 3C0 937 049 AJ
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H54 2202  
   Revision: 00H54000    Serial number: 00000007943357
   Coding: F5890F270004150047140000140000001E097F071400010C000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 12345 785 00200
   VCID: 71AA06166863C50EFD-8024

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K1 955 119 E  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer 240108 021  0501  
   Coding: 00038805
   Shop #: WSC 12345  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
   Component: RLS     150309 054  0402  
   Coding: 00209069
   Shop #: WSC 12345  

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 T    HW: 1K0 909 605 T
   Component: 37 AIRBAG VW8   020 2300  
   Revision: 05020000    Serial number: 0038PD1SY2N8  
   Coding: 0013111
   Shop #: WSC 01373 785 00200
   VCID: 3D32EA2664BB716E29-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MSME2B236864D

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MSME3375054ED

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6352QSME4C1B234BP

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6362QSME4D56342DS

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 BP    HW: 1K0 953 549 BP
   Component: J0527           752 0100  
   Coding: 0002022
   Shop #: WSC 01392 785 00200
   VCID: 014A56D658C3D58E0D-8054

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
   Component: E0221           002 0010

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 920 874 M    HW: 1K0 920 874 M
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 1220  
   Revision: V0002000    Serial number: VWX7Z0H13N6913
   Coding: 0003103
   Shop #: WSC 01007 261 13533
   VCID: 373EF80E46875B3EF3-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 L    HW: 1K0 907 951 
   Component: J533  Gateway   H07 0052  
   Revision:   H07 01    Serial number: 010208F2000033
   Coding: E9807F064002020002
   Shop #: WSC 01392 785 00200
   VCID: 302CC312A3E98C06B2-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 920 874 M    HW: 1K0 920 874 M
   Component: IMMO            VDD 1220  
   Revision: V0002000    Serial number: VWX7Z0H13N6913
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 373EF80E46875B3EF3-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation (J0506)       Labels:. 1T0-035-680.clb
   Part No SW: 1T0 035 680 R    HW: 1T0 035 680 S
   Component: RNS-MID       H27 6276  
   Revision: AB001001    Serial number: VWZ6Z743114052
   Coding: 0C000402040000010000
   Shop #: WSC 05314 123 00001
   VCID: 3D32EA26A4BB716E29-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1T0 919 859 B
   Component: EU West V14  8477 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels:. 1K0-959-701-MIN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 701 M    HW: 1K0 959 701 M
   Component: Tuer-SG         006 1203  
   Coding: 0000180
   Shop #: WSC 01392 785 00200
   VCID: 383CFB324B995446FA-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-144-G2V3.clb
   Part No: 1K1 909 144 M
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.069 H08 1901  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 028 00001
   VCID: 3522F2065C8BA92EE1-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 BT    HW: 1K0 959 433 BT
   Component:    KSG PQ35 G2  020 0204  
   Revision: 00020000    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 819002005103487F2D04040DF0084F06F0FC00
   Shop #: WSC 01007 261 88724
   VCID: 03465CDE42DFC79E1F-8056

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 D
   Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H08 9001

   Subsystem 2 - Component:       NGS n.mounted     

   Subsystem 3 - Component:      IRUE n.mounted     

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels:. 1K0-959-702-MIN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 702 M    HW: 1K0 959 702 M
   Component: Tuer-SG         006 1219  
   Coding: 0000180
   Shop #: WSC 01392 785 00200
   VCID: 393AFE3670934D4E05-806C

2 Faults Found:
00097 - Front Passengers Central Locking (Safe) Motor (V162) 
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221) 
            008 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J0506)       Labels:. 1T0-035-680.clb
   Part No SW: 1T0 035 680 R    HW: 1T0 035 680 S
   Component: RNS-MID       H27 6276  
   Revision: AB001001    Serial number: VWZ6Z743114052
   Coding: 0C000402040000010000
   Shop #: WSC 05314 123 00001
   VCID: 3D32EA26A4BB716E29-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1T0 919 859 B
   Component: EU West V14  8477 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels:. 1K0-959-703-GEN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 703 K    HW: 1K0 959 703 K
   Component: Tuer-SG         006 1302  
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 01392 785 1012552
   VCID: 383CFB324B995446FA-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels:. 1K0-959-704-GEN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 704 K    HW: 1K0 959 704 K
   Component: Tuer-SG         006 1305  
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 01392 785 1012552
   VCID: 393AFE3670934D4E05-806C

No fault code found.

End----(Elapsed Time: 01:15, VBatt start/end: 12.0V/12.0V. VIgn 12.0V)-----
 
Last edited:
   #2  

Vasco Ferraz

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When cracking, after several seconds I get the low oil pressure warning.

First I ignored, but then the I checked the oil sensor level and it's 0.0mm ^^!

Checked visual and it's in fact very low but I changed oil 3000km ago.

Still no errors on the dash or VCDS.
 
   #3  

Jack@European_Parts

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Hey Vasco how are you?

You should know better please post an auto-scan..... :rolleyes:

Is engine speed RPM G28 and G40 observed in blocks when cranking?

Does car fire up with flammable liquid sprayed in intake?
 
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   #4  

Jef

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After you post the Auto-Scan... is there any chance the mechanical timing is off? Have you done a compression test?
 
   #5  

Vasco Ferraz

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Hi Jack,

Yes, I observe the G28 about 300rpm. I won't find the G40 in the blocks.

This is diesel so I am not sure if I should use starting fluid on diesel engines.
 
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Vasco Ferraz

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After you post the Auto-Scan... is there any chance the mechanical timing is off? Have you done a compression test?

I changed the distribution 23000km ago. But it was done by a Bosch Car Service with Bosch material.
I didn't do a compression test.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Basics "Vasco FIX" JA JA BASICS! :rolleyes:

Do check timing & do perform a compression check & spray a little of the fluid too..........

Is intake or exhaust restricted?

Scan please.......damaged wiring?
 
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Vasco Ferraz

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Basics "Vasco FIX" JA JA BASICS! :rolleyes:

Do check timing & do perform a compression check & spray a little of the fluid too..........

Is intake or exhaust restricted?

Scan please.......damaged wiring?

This is a PD engine:
"Note to PD (pumpe duese aka unit injectors) and CR (common rail) owners: The timing in PD and CR engines is determined electronically by the ECU. There is neither a need nor an ability to check timing on the PD or CR engines using a scan tool. There are no graphs published for the simple reason that the timing is set using a dedicated VAG locking tool when changing the timing belt :-) "

Meaning that I can only visual inspect the timing, right?
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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This is a PD engine:
"Note to PD (pumpe duese aka unit injectors) and CR (common rail) owners: The timing in PD and CR engines is determined electronically by the ECU. There is neither a need nor an ability to check timing on the PD or CR engines using a scan tool. There are no graphs published for the simple reason that the timing is set using a dedicated VAG locking tool when changing the timing belt :-) "

Meaning that I can only visual inspect the timing, right?​


Vasco Ferraz

Mechanical.........BASICS IN RTFB
 
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Vasco Ferraz

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Mechanical.........BASICS IN RTFB



Jack,

Are you sure that this can't be a fuel air lock?

I am not 100% sure but I always do a trip reset at each fuel filling (always full filling).

At 100/110km/h, I do 1100km per deposit when the low fuel warning pops (average of 4.3L/100km).

This latest 3000km I changed my driving style and the average consumption is 5.7L/100km.

The trip shows 930km and I am 99.99% sure that I did a trip reset.

Another fact is that the fuel filter reservoir was empty.

Also, I can hear the fuel pump working when turning the key or performing the VCDS fuel priming procedure.
 
   #11  

Jack@European_Parts

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Jack,

Are you sure that this can't be a fuel air lock?

I am not 100% sure but I always do a trip reset at each fuel filling (always full filling).

At 100/110km/h, I do 1100km per deposit when the low fuel warning pops (average of 4.3L/100km).

This latest 3000km I changed my driving style and the average consumption is 5.7L/100km.

The trip shows 930km and I am 99.99% sure that I did a trip reset.

Another fact is that the fuel filter reservoir was empty.

Also, I can hear the fuel pump working when turning the key or performing the VCDS fuel priming procedure.



How would I know, respectfully I'm not there....... :rolleyes:

Gauges and measuring devices it is time is it not, verify prime or manually bled with mighty vac?

Why did it loose prime and did you check for leaks or on suction side if sucking air?

Isolate zones with mighty vac and crimps yet?

Did you know that you can grind a vise grip smooth & so it doesn't damage hoses when crimping or insert a adapter jaw plates


JM-741.jpg
038548015040.jpg
 
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Vasco Ferraz

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Jack,

Thank you so much for your help :)

What I was trying to say is that I believe that I ran out of fuel... drying all the lines.

I don't have such tools :|

My idea is to:

1) Add more 6 litres to the tank.
2) Unplug the intake fuel hose that connects to fuel filter housing to check if, when cranking, there is diesel being primed from the fuel tank.
3) If the above does not happen it means that there is air between the tank and the filter filter housing
4) So, I will remove the back seat to reach the fuel sender and fill the it with diesel.
5) Repeat number 2.

Does this makes sense?
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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   #14  

Pinpointdiag

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So can I say that a golf with a PD engine has no high pressure fuel pump, the unit injectors are there own high pressure pumps. It will probably have 2 x low pressure pumps. One in the tank and one at the timing belt end of the rocker cover beside the fuel filter. If you run out of fuel it should self prime. If you have found the filter was empty then a pump or both pumps are not pumping or there’s a blockage in the line or filter. There is a feed and return pipe from the tank to the filter and a feed and return From the filter to the injectors inside the rocker cover. The filter top should have arrows to show which is which. First listen to both and make sure you can hear them running then if they are I would find the one that comes out of the filter to the cylinder head and using a extra bit of hose pointed in to a bucket find out if you have fuel flowing through the system. Or plumb in a piece of clear hose. Be very careful of potentially spilling fuel.

A pump can sound like it’s pumping but not actually pump. And if the tank pump works but the under hood pump doesn’t it can actually block the flow. Also of course the pumps need to start pumping when the engine starts to crank over not just when asked to with the scan tool or during priming.

If it had run out of fuel adding 6 Lts would be enough to get it running again.

All that is provided it’s a PD engine and not Common rail. And since you’ve said there are no fault codes.

Also as jack said you could spray some flammable spray like brake/carburettor cleaner (not easy start) into the air intake and provided there is good compression and no inlet or exhaust blockages it should start and run for as long as you keep adding a little fuel. If it runs from an external fuel supply like that it should be able to run with its own fuel supply. This can get a vehicle that has an air lock move the air bubble and then run on its own, older rotary high pressure pumps were bad for this.
However it’s possible to do some serious damage doing this and it should only be done with great care by some one who knows what there doing.


HTH
 
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   #15  

Jack@European_Parts

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The PD indeed has a rotary HPP built in with combination of the vacuum pump on the cylinder head and driven by camshaft.

There can be a lift pump in tank, boost pump, than HPP and than each unit injector incorporates a high pressure helix within the injector and is limited by camshaft rocker stroke with lash, additional the delivery method of fuel to helix pool & is controlled by a solenoid on each.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw3GWlOC9ZRVV8xJa63-BlRH
 
   #16  

Vasco Ferraz

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Hi Pinpointdiag,

Hi Jack,

I believe that Pinpointdiag is right, that is, PD engines does not have any high pressure fuel pump.

The high pressure is done at each unit injector (something around 1900 bar).

This PD engine has one lifter pump in the tank and (I believe!) another low pressure pump in the engine bay, like Jack said, connected to camshaft.

I believe this pump shares functionality with the servo brake enhancer -> I am talking about the tandem pump.

So, after all this discussion I am pointing for a faulty tandem pump :| But this is just a guess ^^!
 
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   #17  

Pinpointdiag

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Sorry, Jack is correct I was forgetting about the camshaft driven tandem pump. Not sure it produces high pressure though? 1bar at idle is it not.

Have a good look for the Electrical transfer pump. I think it will have one. It’s not obvious at first but if I remember correctly it’s in front of the filter on the right hand inner wing.
 
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   #18  

Jack@European_Parts

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Sorry, Jack is correct I was forgetting about the camshaft driven tandem pump. Not sure it produces high pressure though? 1bar at idle is it not.

Have a good look for the Electrical transfer pump. I think it will have one. It’s not obvious at first but if I remember correctly it’s in front of the filter on the right hand inner wing.

Should you not go back to school & RTFB, further sharpen your pencil, the 1 BAR you aforementioned is a requirement on return line for proper chiller function & because if fuel isn't circulated quickly out of head by HPP, the fuel will become too hot just between injectors due to helix and latent cylinder head temperature on feed from zyl 4 to 1?
 
   #19  

Pinpointdiag

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So what is the maximum pressure of the tandem pump then.
 
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