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Thread: Bleed ABS Mk6 R Clarifications

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    Bleed ABS Mk6 R Clarifications

    Hi everyone,

    A quick few clarification questions on bleeding the ABS in a US Mk6 Golf R. I understand that the output test is in the ABS Module and that it gives instructions of what to do as it goes along, but just a few ancillary questions to that test. First, does the engine need to be running, or does just the battery need to be on to do this? Second, while the test is running, do one/all bleeder valves need to be open (or do the ABS bleed 4x, one for each corner)? I believe the output test has you pump the pedal, so that seems like it would draw air in? Additional to that, I have the Motive power bleeder, so if the bleeders do need to be open, is it okay that the power bleeder is attached and pressurized? Thanks for the clarification, just never really think I could find the answers to these.

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    Ross-Tech Employee Dana's Avatar
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    The Output test function is NOT intended for bleeding brakes. Don't get me wrong, you can use it (providing you have 2 people) to diagnose things like faulty ABS valve blocks, malfunctioning brake hoses/calipers and forcing a massive air-lock out of a line but it isn't for bleeding.

    Diagnostic assist bleeding is rarely necessary but you might check the repair manual to see if there's any mention of it for this MK60EC1 ABS type using Basic Settings. Unless the system is entirely empty and you can't get any fluid to flow I would bleed or flush the system old-school via gravity -or- with your power bleeder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    The Output test function is NOT intended for bleeding brakes. Don't get me wrong, you can use it (providing you have 2 people) to diagnose things like faulty ABS valve blocks, malfunctioning brake hoses/calipers and forcing a massive air-lock out of a line but it isn't for bleeding.

    Diagnostic assist bleeding is rarely necessary but you might check the repair manual to see if there's any mention of it for this MK60EC1 ABS type using Basic Settings. Unless the system is entirely empty and you can't get any fluid to flow I would bleed or flush the system old-school via gravity -or- with your power bleeder.
    Huh, okay I thought it was Output test or basic settings, so must be the other one. Output test is essentially just to confirm everything is working then essentially? I was also under the impression that the ABS system is closed during normal bleeding, so a gravity or power bleeder would not affect it unless the ABS was specifically triggered to open, since there are a lot of valves and other things that are usually regulated by the computer?

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    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    How an ABS Hydraulic System Actually works.



    Fluid is always set to flow when the ABS controller is inactive ( unplugged ) or removed from vehicle/ABS block & like a traditional mechanical brake system.

    The booster maybe assisted by vacuum, vac pump, auxiliary pump or even accumulation for servo to ease mechanical forces needed to press the brake pedal or supplement hydraulic force accumulation depending on systems specification of build.

    Aforementioned said, ABS can be bled forward/reverse, by gravity or PSI bleeder and traditional 2 chump pump and dump.

    Stop over complicating it for yourselves...... Please bifurcate the function in your head to simplify it.

    If a system was to not flow brake fluid & in either direction when unplugged, this would imply a mechanical condition, further requiring attention!

    The ABS pump itself permits PSI to be generated that you would normally create by means of lever force with your foot brake pedal. ( MAIN FORCE ZONE )

    The ELECTRIC ABS PUMP force takes over to switch from MAIN FORCE ZONE ( from your foot to electric pump function zone ) & too additional distributed zones as needed by electronic controllers determinations.

    This zone distribution is done to maintain tire speed on take off/slowing down from skidding/maintaining straight stop patterns & using various speed inputs.

    Such inputs as PSI or inertia sensors SAS etc. to an ASR/ESP/EDL and ABS process to complete a brake function or traction control criteria.

    There are many additional attributes handled and or communications exchanged on the CAN/K lines etc. too and this is just to simplify a basic understanding not being complete, please reference RTFB!
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    How an ABS Hydraulic System Actually works.



    Fluid is always set to flow when the ABS controller is inactive ( unplugged ) or removed from vehicle/ABS block & like a traditional mechanical brake system.

    The booster maybe assisted by vacuum, vac pump, auxiliary pump or even accumulation for servo to ease mechanical forces needed to press the brake pedal or supplement hydraulic force accumulation depending on systems specification of build.

    Aforementioned said, ABS can be bled forward/reverse, by gravity or PSI bleeder and traditional 2 chump pump and dump.

    Stop over complicating it for yourselves...... Please bifurcate the function in your head to simplify it.

    If a system was to not flow brake fluid & in either direction when unplugged, this would imply a mechanical condition, further requiring attention!

    The ABS pump itself permits PSI to be generated that you would normally create by means of lever force with your foot brake pedal. ( MAIN FORCE ZONE )

    The ELECTRIC ABS PUMP force takes over to switch from MAIN FORCE ZONE ( from your foot to electric pump function zone ) & too additional distributed zones as needed by electronic controllers determinations.

    This zone distribution is done to maintain tire speed on take off/slowing down from skidding/maintaining straight stop patterns & using various speed inputs.

    Such inputs as PSI or inertia sensors SAS etc. to an ASR/ESP/EDL and ABS process to complete a brake function or traction control criteria.

    There are many additional attributes handled and or communications exchanged on the CAN/K lines etc. too and this is just to simplify a basic understanding not being complete, please reference RTFB!


    Okay I think that makes sense. Flow is always there, it is just the ability for the ABS to apply additional pressure above what you can at the pedal, in combination with its ability to actuate each wheel differently. Why does it seem searching around says that bleeding an ABS system is so difficult then. I get there are a lot of extra spaces for air to get trapped, but essentially you are just saying that you can power bleed it all, it might just take 10, 20 minutes, or more (and a lot of brake fluid) to fully ensure air is out of the ABS system?

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    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Okay I think that makes sense. Flow is always there, it is just the ability for the ABS to apply additional pressure above what you can at the pedal, in combination with its ability to actuate each wheel differently. Why does it seem searching around says that bleeding an ABS system is so difficult then. I get there are a lot of extra spaces for air to get trapped, but essentially you are just saying that you can power bleed it all, it might just take 10, 20 minutes, or more (and a lot of brake fluid) to fully ensure air is out of the ABS system?

    RTFB please and read SSP for design and function.

    Stop the speculation because you read it someplace.

    You can spread mustard on a bratwurst, however, do you apply outside the bun where you hold it?

    Brake fluid is nasty and poison, so before creating complications, please consider the consequence of inexperience!

    The use of a high PSI bleed or using the OBD for this in my opinion is reckless!

    Fluids like this require great care for hand/skin/eye protection & should indeed be taken......less is more!
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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    Quote Originally Posted by mailman2013 View Post
    Hi everyone,

    A quick few clarification questions on bleeding the ABS in a US Mk6 Golf R. I understand that the output test is in the ABS Module and that it gives instructions of what to do as it goes along, but just a few ancillary questions to that test. First, does the engine need to be running, or does just the battery need to be on to do this? Second, while the test is running, do one/all bleeder valves need to be open (or do the ABS bleed 4x, one for each corner)? I believe the output test has you pump the pedal, so that seems like it would draw air in? Additional to that, I have the Motive power bleeder, so if the bleeders do need to be open, is it okay that the power bleeder is attached and pressurized? Thanks for the clarification, just never really think I could find the answers to these.
    Hi. I confirm that "output test" is only to verify brake functionality for every single wheel, nothing to do with bleeding fluid.
    I've just consulted original workshop manual for Mk6.
    Minimum required bleeding pressure is 2 bar.
    Normal bleeding sequence is: front left, front right, rear left, rear right (yes, opposite of all other cars of the world, this is VW).
    No computer assisted bleeding procedure is mentioned, like for Golf Mk4. Golf Mk6 needs no electronic bleed according to workshop manual.
    Only if brake pedal is still too soft after normal bleeding, for exapmple when a chamber in brake pump is left completely dry, a classic bleed is needed, with a person pressing pedal in the car and another opening bleeding screws outside. Bleed 5 times per wheel in the same sequence described above.
    A road test must be carried out after the brakes have been bled. When doing this an ABS activation must be performed at least once.

    Hope to be helpful.
    Good job.

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