Oil

Jack@European_Parts said:

You may find that due to running super slick synthetic oils...... that this increases the vapor/PSI in block.
A solution is to run conventional SAE oil with more frequent oil changes.

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Just to give some tips about oil.

You HAVE TO use Synthetic oil because of the many reasons in new cars.
-One and most important reason is Temperature. Any oil except synthetic will basically cook in engine. Why is that , bacuse those engines get oil temperature very high sometimes 600-700 F ( Specially in climate where you are in summer time), Only synthetic oil will not cook on this temperature, any other will.
That way they had problems at beginning of 2000 with oil sludge using regular conventional oil.

-Other reason is that materials in new engines has to have lot of ZINC in oil to be lubricate properly. Look those TDI with camshaft problems using not proper oil.

So do not be smarter then VW engineering and use 5w40 Synthetic oil 502-505.00-505.01 VW spec and this is the only right way to go.

One more improtnat thing is driving those cars. Specially turbo engines. Those engines are high performance engines and they can not be drive low RPM. You have to drive those cars I can say kind of aggressive to not get problems.Driving low RMP it will built Carbon all over the intake.
I get this question , well I drive 90% city driving with lot of stop and go?
2 times a week you can take your car on HWY for 10 miles aggressive drive and blow this stuff away.

This is what I use for all my customers and my cars and have excellent results, GERMAN oil with lot of ZING in it:

Jetta said:

This is what I use for all my customers and my cars and have excellent results, GERMAN oil with lot of ZING in it

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How often are you recommending they change it?

IMO, some of the change intervals have gotten ridiculously long. Personally, I can't bring myself to go over 10,000 miles and if I was planning to keep a car indefinitely, I would probably change it more often than that.

-Uwe-

PS: In order to try to keep this place somewhat organized, I split this from the original thread it was in.

Uwe ,
here is what I find out over the years with oil and sending in lab for results.
For gas engine 5000-6000 miles oil change .
For Diesel engine 7000-8000 miles oil change.

This is my research and some people will agree with me , and some will tell me I talking BS and go 15k-20k oil change.
I tell everyone , this is what I recommend and it does not mean you have to follow it.

Explanation:
- For gas engine,
As far as the oil viscosity you can go up to 20000 miles , but the problem on Gas engines is that amount of the fuel goes in oil after 6000 miles is not good and I do not like it at all. Also amount of the Iron, Cooper , Aluminum wear after 6000 miles having good amount of the fuel in oil increasing very fast.

-For diesel engine.
Same thing as for gas , As far as the oil viscosity you can go up to 20000 miles,Also diesel engines does not get fuel in oil at all. I have done lab results at 15000 and there was no fuel in oil.
But on diesel engine amount of Iron, Cooper , Aluminum what flowing in oil is what really wear down engine. This amount after 8000 miles is much more then looking around 5000-6000, and this is what I do not like and recommend 7000-8000 miles oil change on TDI.

Here is one of the examples for one TDI, Red marked is at 54k right after 10000 miles oil change form dealer was doing,it was first oil change after I did , we took example and send it to lab, and blue marked is doing oil change with me every 7000-8000 miles, look change in numbers when you look Iron, Cooper , Aluminum,
and also look viscosity at 7000 miles, it is still in spec.
This car use Motul 5w30 504/507 because it is clean diesel and has to have low ash oil, all others I use Pentosine I mention above:

I respect what you say Marin.......I just don't agree with it.

You HAVE TO use Synthetic oil because of the many reasons in new cars.

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No........no one has to do anything.......That thing freedom of choice.
The ones that have run the actual correct synthetic oils at the correct intervals........ have still had mechanical failure.
That is a fact!

That way they had problems at beginning of 2000 with oil sludge using regular conventional oil.

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I disagree/agree with this because it was the interval also that was stated as acceptable verse the required use of the oil.

See....... I see the engine sump oil being used for the turbo as a direct design flaw, and main cause as you aforementioned for heat/sludge.
I think this should be an independent sump.

One more improtnat thing is driving those cars. Specially turbo engines. Those engines are high performance engines and they can not be drive low RPM. You have to drive those cars I can say kind of aggressive to not get problems.Driving low RMP it will built Carbon all over the intake.

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I agree and disagree.

I agree that the engines will pool oil when synthetic and carbon up...... due to the high blow by, and the higher vacuum PSI that sucks it in at those lower RPMs.
The reason high RPM helps it, is because the combustion burn is with higher heat and clarity to burn the oil that leaked by.



I agree with below.
Reality........you openly admit this with your statement and lab report.
Oils become contaminated whether from fuel, water vapor, wear of components metals, heat, and the sludge as result.


You can't possibly disagree that these VW-Audi engines exhibit these problems even using the required specs of oil.
Just look at the engine failures as your guide.

I really like that Pentosin oil myself and agree that this oil is one if not the best on the market next to there mix blend.
Please explain why over 10 v8's Audi 2004-2008 cars I have in my care......... with the infamous timing chain issues....... have 200K with original parts, and oil filter never changed yet, oil dropped every 5K using 5w 30 oil SAE each time.

While others which did the oil change at the higher interval and full synthetic have needed those chains/adjusters, in addition to needing plugs and packs more often due to misfire and decarbonizing.

I put my money where my mouth was here I might add.......The deal was starting in 2003 if an engine failed with my customer below 150K I would buy them a new crated motor.
These customers I might add do everything I tell them to do and are not cheap.

In the end though they all saved a huge amount of money in my opinion, just were inconvenienced doing the oil changes more often.
Worth the time I think.

The reason I did this was due to the note/discloser I read on Audi and VW's website 10 years ago.
Was about specs of oils not being adhered to can a cause an accident or severe engine damage or death.
Talk about scare tactic to get everyone on board with a ridiculous cost to change oil and box out aftermarket/void warranty.

The result: The engines grenade prematurely anyway.

Anyone ever take an old 068 apart and see the cross hatches in the cylinders after 250K because I did?
All those ran on SAE and I never saw a cam journal wipe out or a cam lobe fail.........including running low on oil.


Fact: Reason for Late TDI Turbo charger......... NOX and OXS sensor failures along with particulate filter plugged......synthetic oil blow by and over filing as result of fuel in oil.

If exhaust gases can't vacate, they build up........... go elsewhere, than causing all kinds of havoc with a domino effect.

Jack everyone has them own opinion ,
Like I said:
This is my research and some people will agree with me , and some will tell me I talking BS and go 15k-20k oil change.
I tell everyone , this is what I recommend and it does not mean you have to follow it.

Example on my own car:

I had TDI 1997 and was using regular oil and that car will use/eat 1 qt after 1500 miles. When I switch to Synthetic Pentosin 5w40, I had to add every 4000 miles 1 qt of oil, so this tells that regular oil was cooking in that engine. And that AHU engine has very low emissions and runs on very low temperature comparing to new TDI or GAS engine.

Correct.......... everyone has there own opinion Marin,

Keep in mind I am in a different geographic area.
It is much colder here with swings in temp, and you have a much more moderate higher temp area in TX.

So my vehicles have to deal with much richer cold starts in addition to drastic temp change.
Those additional rich cold starts contaminate the sump rather fast.

That engine so much as farts....... or fails to make operating temp before restart for the following day cold start........... could be interesting.

Like with everything........things change when the inputs are clearly different, you get a different outcome.

example :

An intercooler here stock......there is really no benefit and a detriment on most days in my climate area......... but in yours that is perhaps not the case.

Example on my own car:

I had TDI 1997 and was using regular oil and that car will use/eat 1 qt after 1500 miles. When I switch to Synthetic Pentosin 5w40, I had to add every 4000 miles 1 qt of oil, so this tells that regular oil was cooking in that engine. And that AHU engine has very low emissions and runs on very low temperature comparing to new TDI or GAS engine.

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I have that same car.
I would say why is your car burning that much oil period? ( And yes according to VW it's normal to burn 1QT in 1K as per TSB )
I would be willing to bet it's due to running a high sump level. Then it could be the higher temps you have geographically.
My AHU's burn about a half a QT in 5K on SAE 15w 40 ......I also run them at the bottom of stick so they can expand for heat transition.
I additionally run my VC breather up first......... then to the bottom of my air box intake, so vapors are forced on the high side, and oil collected to the return on front of block.
I have hardly any oil in my air box either and my turbo charger and intercooler are without oil.
I would be willing to bet you have some there.........

I just ask you to consider the factors.
You absolutely don't have to agree with me, but you didn't give any answers why I am incorrect with my theories/tests either.
I did recant to yours. If you believe I am wrong here, please specify why.


I really like this old guys shows........ great stuff.

Jack@European_Parts said:

I have hardly any oil in my air box either and my turbo charger and intercooler are without oil.
I would be willing to bet you have some there.........

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No,
I did not have any oil because I drive those cars the way they need to be drive. Every gear is shift around 3500-4000 with gas pedal to floor .
None of my TDI never had oil aound the turbo or in intercooler or any carbon in intake ( after I clean intake) , because I know how to drive them .

It has to go somewhere.........
I guess yours just burns out the exhaust.

Marin since you like the high RPMs for the TDI.....have you ever considered the light weight pump sprocket for fast RPM spin up?

I have it on my ALH and it's really nice for much faster revs.

I think I showed this to Eric on here but am unsure if he recalls this.

It's a factory part not aft in EU and limited USA models that came here.

You should see what an AHU or ALH does when running on gasoline vapors............when compared to propane it is really unbelievable.

Pictures of said part can be observed in the repair manual.

Come on Marin lets hear some good arguments on this oil subject...... but please not a pissing contest.
I am willing to listen and prepared to refute with what I believe would be facts or reasons of explanation.

Just anyone...........please take the time to read the SSP of all the TSI series engines.

After reviewing the ridiculous process required to vacate these aforementioned blow by gases........ that reap havoc on these poor engines.

I hope someone here sees what I have been saying about this.......... and I quote "LABYRINTH"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth

In my opinion, MAZE of stupidity............

Lets first start with a check of the oil CAP............sucked down!

Hey Boss.......... the car isn't draining oil down here with drain plug removed.........great ventilation in.

You blödmann............ you have to open the oil cap to let the air in.

Every gear is shift around 3500-4000 with gas pedal to floor. is that the way you drive or drove a diesel engine ?

jetta 97 your quote,Also diesel engines does not get fuel in oil at all. have you done any labs on a engine with dpf. also vw only allows 5% bio, because bio evaporates at a much hotter temp. and vw is worried about dilution. for Ohio they allow 11% bio because of state laws.

bar&kevs said:

jetta 97 your quote,Also diesel engines does not get fuel in oil at all. have you done any labs on a engine with dpf. also vw only allows 5% bio, because bio evaporates at a much hotter temp. and vw is worried about dilution. for Ohio they allow 11% bio because of state laws.

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Post #3 is car with DPF.

bar&kevs said:

Every gear is shift around 3500-4000 with gas pedal to floor. is that the way you drive or drove a diesel engine ?

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That is the way I drove and I drive new diesel engines, and never had problem with Carbon or anything else.

if you where my customer and we went on a drive. I would tell you don't worry about carbon my son, worry about the gear box. that is a sure way to destroy any drivetrain, brakes, suspension etc. etc. its your dollars blow it any way you want. after 3000rpm most diesel are out of steam any way. imo this is no way to treat a car. I have read your posts on a lot of other posts and appreciate you trying to help on the forum. not trying to make enemies. I just don't want people to think they can drive pedal to the metal without consequences

i have an audi 2.0tdi dpf bkd engine with 150k miles ,ive only put 20k or so to it the previous owner did most of them on the motorway, so which type of oil is recommended and at what interval? i normally change oil and filter 7/8k miles 5/30 synthetic low ash
i do around 150mile around town every week and once every 2 weeks a good motorway run...never had any dpf issues yet but always a concern
my normal driving i change gears around 2200/2500 revs but that contradicts the display from the car computer when to change gear,
when i drive in this manor my car is not economical at all average around 30mpg,
if i drive according to the car display (gear up}at around 1700 revs which is too many quick gear changes hard to keep up with, the mpg goes up slightly,
I'm rather confused as to how to drive my car properly to achieve best mpg, and correct type oil to use so no dpf issues.. or am i better off with an automatic which has its own dsg problems, or better still go back to petrol.....
and by the way i just drive normally in a mellow fashion no hurry to get anywhere fast

I don't know which engine you have but if you have a dpf I think you should be using 5-30 504/507 spec oil which is low ash.I have an older alh engine. the oil spec on mine is 502/505.i also use total 504/507. if you don't put 10k miles in 12 months imo change your oil at least every 12 months. the sweet spot to keep the rpms is near the top of torque curve. to avoid dpf problems avoid idling for long periods. usually when its in regen mode a good 45 mile highway trip shoul complete the cycle. I don't have any experience with dsg trans .but I do know in case of failure they cost an arm and a leg.

bar&kevs said:

if you where my customer and we went on a drive. I would tell you don't worry about carbon my son, worry about the gear box.

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I doubt he means he keeps the pedal to the metal during the actual shift.

bar&kevs said:

if you where my customer and we went on a drive. I would tell you don't worry about carbon my son, worry about the gear box. that is a sure way to destroy any drivetrain, brakes, suspension etc. etc. its your dollars blow it any way you want. after 3000rpm most diesel are out of steam any way. imo this is no way to treat a car. I have read your posts on a lot of other posts and appreciate you trying to help on the forum. not trying to make enemies. I just don't want people to think they can drive pedal to the metal without consequences

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I also had 99.5 and I drove that car for 70k the way I drive, It was tune car with good power , about 120Hp vs 90Hp stock. That car still running because I know the guy I sold it. He put about 20K and he drives kind of like me. That car still running perfect with out any problems with of drive train.
I forgot to mention I do this when engine warm up, till then I shift about 2500 RPM. Of course you can not drive all time 3000-4000 rpm , it depend of road condition and etc. But in global I want to say I drive those car kind of aggressive , and this will reduce all kind of problems on those cars.
Look at those 2.0 T FSI engines , every single one who was baby those cars had problem with carbon and injectors, and some cars was at 50k with this problem.
I have customer that he has 120k on his car with APR stage 2 , he drives kind of like me , and no problem at all with carbon build in intake and injectors.
So it is one way or other , but I guaranty you for drive train that is the last thing you have to worry for braking .


One thing people does not understand that new generation of cars are not 1980 technology. It is High performance engines and they like to be push.
Also Turbo engine means POWER, so it means PUSH IT , not baby it.

Hey Folks

Since you're talking about oil in Volkswagens here, I have an observation that leas me to a question on oils...

I bought my 2009 Mk4 VW City Golf a used a couple years ago with about 40k miles on it.
Car is a 2.0L gas, 5 spd.

I changed the oil when I bought it and put in Castrol Edge 5w30...the full synthetic VW spec stuff.
It burned that oil at what I considered to be a fast rate...like a full liter by 2500-3000 miles. (For me, that's too much)
I switched up to the same Castrol Edge full synthetic in a 5w40 weight. I didn't really want to because of the cold starts here in the winter, but it helped.
With the 5w40, I was getting more like 3500-4000 miles before I'd have to add oil.
I should note, during this time, I was getting repeated DTC errors for the front/upper heated O2 sensor reading out of range (during cold starts).
Anyway, I had the oil changed at an independent shop, and they put Mobil 1 "Euro Blend" 0w40 in the car.
Then, my oil issues went away, almost completely. I could put 6000 miles on this oil before needing a liter, sometimes more.

So, I've been running this 0w40 ever since, and coincidentally, my O2 sensor errors went away as well.

So, for you VW experts, does this behavior sound normal for an old Mk4 2.0L gas engine?
Obviously it was burning oil...and now it is not...or is burning much less.
However, is the 0w40 a bad idea?...

Thoughts?

Sounds to me as though your engine likes that oil. Why would it be bad? That old 2.slow engine is low-tech enough not to require oil with esoteric, proprietary specs.

How often do you change your oil?

-Uwe-