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Thread: Battery

  1. #11
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    Interestingly, the last few days the SOC has been reading a good 80 % and 29 ah available. I believe start stop cars maintain the battery at 80% for headroom for the regeneration crap. Funny thing today it dropped to SOC 68% and 19 ah available for no reason ( nothing draining). I consequently got the “power consumption is high” for a few miles and start stop returned. Seems to a pattern. Does it approx once a week.

  2. #12
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    Maybe i'm a little paranoid, does this sound like the battery is low? I took a little video of it first start of the day 16 degrees C.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I9y1BgPuf0

  3. #13
    Verified VCDS User DV52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky 32 View Post
    One thing i have noticed a few times is i get the “power consumption is high” and start stop might not work for 15/20 miles but the start stop mostly works ok. Another thing i have noticed is when i start the car on a cold morning the heated steering wheel sometimes turns itself on.
    Micky: Hi - I've been reading your dialogue with interest.

    Here's a bunch of prerequisites that must be satisfied for SS to successfully stop the engine
    • The vehicle is stationary (speed = 0km/h).
    • The engine speed is below 1200rpm.
    • The coolant temperature is between 25C and 100C.
    • The brake vacuum is more than 550mbar.
    • The energy required to restart the engine that was calculated before “engine off” can be supplied by the battery (starting voltage prediction).
    • The battery temperature is greater or equal to -1C and less than 55C.
    • The air-conditioning requirement of the occupants is not too high.
    • The difference between target and actual vent temperature is below 8C.
    • The diesel particulate filter is not in regeneration mode (diesel engines only).


    Please note that these are "AND" conditions - so ALL the thresholds above must be met before SS is operational!

    Don't get me wrong, I hate SS with a vengeance and I've immediately removed the facility on the cars that I own - but is it any wonder that occasionally, routinely the driver sees a message saying that SS ain't working (that's the other advantage of correctly deleting SS - the driver never sees these messages!)

    I'm certainly not saying that a failing battery could not be implicated in your instance - I'm just suggesting that the SS message should be viewed in the context of the myriad of other confounders that can produce these messages - maybe?

    Don
    Last edited by DV52; 05-20-2020 at 11:16 PM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky 32 View Post
    I’m not sure if it’s related, looking at those times on the “ no load voltage underranging” ( whatever that means lol) and assuming those dates/times are accurate on the vcds log, the 6th and approx at 19:27 i had vcds connected and i got the 58% SOC and 16 ah reading. Then when i drove somewhere it took about 15 miles for the “power consumption too high” to disappear.

    As for the 8/2/20 13:38 i remember i had parked the car during a regen that was interrupted and the fans ran for 5 mins or so afterwards. I’m guessing no load voltage underranging means voltage went low?
    Interesting that you mentioned that as I hadn't considered it to be part of the the problem I had with my Tiguan a while back.

    I went out in the morning and my car wouldn't start so I jump started it using a battery I keep on charge in the garage. I went for a 50 mile drive (with the spare battery and jump leads in the boot) and start-stop disabled. When I got home the car wouldn't restart and when I checked the voltage, there didn't seem to have been anything put into the battery at all.

    I assumed that the battery must be dying and started pricing them up but when I saw the price, I decided that because I had some other things that needed looking into under warranty at the dealer, I'd book the car in for a check over.

    In the meantime, I connected my smart charger and left t connected for a few days and it seemed fine. The dealer said they couldn't find anything wrong and that the battery was perfectly fine.

    The same thing happened a few months later and all I did was to connect the charger and leave it charging for a couple of days.

    It may just be that there is a correlation between parking up when a DPF regen was going on and having trouble starting up the following morning.

    The thing is, I changed the Tiguan for a Touareg in March this year and I have had low battery issues with this car as well. It is a November 2019 car with 6k on the clock that had been in daily use and according to VCDS, the battery was showing 100% life but power management was disabling things because there wasn't enough power in the battery to operate them and the battery was down to 11.3 Volts at one point. Once again, taking it out for a non-stop circular 50 mile drive in broad daylight with start-stop disabled and the lights turned off, hardly put any charge in the battery. I had to connect my charger and leave it for a couple of days before everything started working properly.

    I've been doing that every couple of weeks while we've been in lockdown.
    Last edited by technodevotee; 05-21-2020 at 07:06 PM.

  6. #15
    Verified VCDS User iichel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    Micky: Hi - I've been reading your dialogue with interest.

    Here's a bunch of prerequisites that must be satisfied for SS to successfully stop the engine
    • The vehicle is stationary (speed = 0km/h).
    • The engine speed is below 1200rpm.
    • The coolant temperature is between 25C and 100C.
    • The brake vacuum is more than 550mbar.
    • The energy required to restart the engine that was calculated before “engine off” can be supplied by the battery (starting voltage prediction).
    • The battery temperature is greater or equal to -1C and less than 55C.
    • The air-conditioning requirement of the occupants is not too high.
    • The difference between target and actual vent temperature is below 8C.
    • The diesel particulate filter is not in regeneration mode (diesel engines only).



    Don
    Some other things,
    - battery voltage must be above 12.5 (you can adjust this in some cars, set to 18V to disable SS)
    - no trailer attached
    - vehicle is level

    If you happen to own the car I do:
    - there may never be errors in the engine management
    - power consumption may not be higher than about 50A regardless of voltage
    - kessy key is in car
    - Saturn, Uranus, the Sun and the moon must be aligned
    - a drop of unicorn blood for every litre of engine oil

    There is however a distinction between 'start/stop not available' / 'start stop not possible' and 'start/stop error.
    The latter shows up upon ignition whenever there is a serious error (usually accompanied by a DTC in engine/battery management).

    I deeply hate the start/stop functionality of my car. I don't need it, it's useless at traffic lights and it ALWAYS kicks in just when i'm about the drive off.
    That being said, there is a certain feeling of happiness when it does kick in, it means my car still thinks it's sound and health after all these years and miles

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  8. #16
    Verified VCDS User DV52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iichel View Post
    I deeply hate the start/stop functionality of my car. I don't need it, it's useless at traffic lights and it ALWAYS kicks in just when i'm about the drive off.
    That being said, there is a certain feeling of happiness when it does kick in, it means my car still thinks it's sound and health after all these years and miles
    ichel: Thanks for the added SS prerequisites - SS certainly is a very complex system

    The irony in your words above on a forum like this is palpable (to me, at least)!!! With the deepest respect and with absolutely no offense intended - if the only reason that you retain SS is to provide a "feeling of happiness" about the health of the car, then perhaps you are not using your VCDS cable correctly

    I want to keep reading your posts for many years in the future. As a valued forum colleague and notwithstanding the obvious Dutch accent in your writings - please disable SS as soon as you can. Else, if you retain SS - plan your trips so that you never need to make a left-hand turn (it is possible to do this)

    Don
    Last edited by DV52; 05-21-2020 at 06:18 PM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

  9. #17
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    I think the conclusion i have about my battery is that its not necessary f****d but it isnt as good as it was when new and with all the modern electrics if a battery isnt 100% youll see glitches ( heated steering wheel glitch being one). It may never fail to start the car for a few more years.

    My battery is rated at 680 amps (EN). I have a battery tester and as far as i can remember it read around 780 ish amps when it was new back in 2017. A new battery will always read higher than its rated amps. Today it reads 609 amps ish.

    However those conductance testers arent always accurate, theyre only a guide. I tested 2 batteries recently and they both read close to their rated amps with a green light saying ok but when the radio or parking lights were left on for about half an hour the cars could barely crank. Batteries seem to fail in one of 2 ways. 1. Lots of ah capacity but unable to deliver the required high current ( conductance tester will diagnose that accurately. 2. Battery is able to deliver the high current but has a low ah capacity. A conductance tester will fail to diagnose that fault.

    Because of number 2 a battery will always seem like it failed suddenly because it will still crank the engine fast with no signs until the end. My partners car was an example of this last week. The starter spun very fast on her car always without fail but when she had the radio left on for about 30 mins there was just a click from the starter.
    Last edited by Micky 32; 05-21-2020 at 09:18 PM.

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  11. #18
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    Have you had a look at the battery history lately?

    If I'm reading what you posted right, the 'age in relation to charging' was 79% and the 'age in relation to performance' was 72% on 09-02-2020.

    They were 86% and 76% respectively on 15-11-2019.

    It would be interesting to see what they are now.

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  13. #19
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    To be honest i was trying to work out what those percentages mean and im not sure, there seems to be a gradual decline of the %between the 2 dates you mention.

    Do they look good or bad, should they be closer to 100%? Ill try and get a new print out later.

  14. #20
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    Well, you are going to have some wear on all batteries and it is three years old.

    Interestingly, the battery in my five year old Tiguan was showing 84% and 77% respectively when it was given a clean bill of health by the dealer, so you could argue that they do seem a bit low by comparison.

    The other things that give me cause for concern is the SOC and the minimum battery capacity, which seem consistently low in the the log you posted.

    I don't know what others think but if you post another history, it might help.
    Last edited by technodevotee; 05-22-2020 at 04:34 PM.

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