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Thread: Mk7 Golf Gti multiple errors. Throttle body, reference voltages, engine sensors.

  1. #11
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    15373 - Sensor Reference Voltage A
    P0642 00 [175] - Voltage too Low
    MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
    Freeze Frame:
    Isolate............

    https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...ence-Voltage-A
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  2. #12
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    ^^^^@Jim: Hi. I've been following your conversation with Jack with interest (I admire Jack's unique approach to diagnostics - I always learn heaps from his posts).

    So - in respect of your tests on the 5 volt sensor rail -I assume that you are using a quality, high-impedance voltmeter. No offense intended - but far too often, folk mistakenly believe that a multi-meter reading is real!

    Here's a section of the WD for the CHHB engine in your auto-scan showing the relevant pins on the ECU as well as some 5V sensors.



    Notice the sensor earth for the 5V rail (i.e. circled "281"). I'm not sure where you made your measurements - have you placed the multi-meter leads across the positive/negative pins on the sensors?

    Don
    Last edited by DV52; 02-06-2020 at 05:22 PM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  4. #13
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Don,

    Did you know It doesn't matter because if the fault doesn't reset with ECU unplugged on engine harness side, than there is a problem at ECU or to it from consumers/sensors/FEED inputs such as ground or supply terminals?

    No jelly donut!

    Thank you though..........

    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  5. #14
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    ^^^hmm....I hadn't thought that deeply about it, but it doesn't sound illogical (as a certain vulcan would say)



    If I'm reading the WD correctly for the CHHB engine, the connection from J623 (ECU) to J533 (CAN Gateway) is made on the 91 PIN connector (i.e. CAN high=T91 /79 , CAN Low=T91 /80). By the "engine side" harness, I assume that you mean the 105 pin connector in my diagram above. I would have assumed that if this was disconnected, all communication between the ECU and pethora of sensors, senders etc would have been stopped. I'm surprised that in this state that the DTCs could be reset - but I accept your advice that they can.

    As I have said, I learn much from your posts!!

    Don
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  7. #15
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    ^^^hmm....I hadn't thought that deeply about it, but it doesn't sound illogical (as a certain vulcan would say)



    If I'm reading the WD correctly for the CHHB engine, the connection from J623 (ECU) to J533 (CAN Gateway) is made on the 91 PIN connector (i.e. CAN high=T91 /79 , CAN Low=T91 /80). By the "engine side" harness, I assume that you mean the 105 pin connector in my diagram above. I would have assumed that if this was disconnected, all communication between the ECU and pethora of sensors, senders etc would have been stopped. I'm surprised that in this state that the DTCs could be reset - but I accept your advice that they can.

    As I have said, I learn much from your posts!!

    Don



    Vehicle Identification No. WVWZZZAUZEW325829
    Model Golf 2.0 BlueMotion
    Technology
    GOLF
    Date of production 06.03.2014
    Model year 2014
    Sales type 5G19TX
    Engine Code CHHB
    Transmission Code PNN



    In regards to the 5 volt ref yes sir.

    CAN high/low connection should be on plug side that is not engine harness side typically, in this case correct the T91 smaller connector since Simos Continental and ass backward of Bosch type.

    I will go see though.....very good Don thank you for that correction, I will no longer state larger or smaller connector and just state not engine harness side for COM.
    Early Simos same as Bosch go figure change shit around.........cost money, an engineering choice LOL!

    Did you know then to measure the output of 5 volt ref with DVOM and com to ecu case or ground of battery?
    Did you know I have come up with this test method outside the scope of the RTFB due to people sending me good controllers and having to hold their hands on the test process & painfully pin by pin due just stupid conditions or faulty wiring such as pedal POT circuit but yet an actual bad POT to date or faulty fuse/water ingress/corrosion bridge?

    Did you see In other thread I get accused of not helping but I'm not an F1 experienced engineer just a Jokeswagen tech from chicken & gravy Montgomery that figures out what alleged professional engineers fuck up.

    https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...on-Replacement

    In this case Don see how OP said code won't clear with engine side disconnected, when that happens it tells me either ECU or wiring on other side and trust me these repairs are pissing techs off?

    Some asshole engineer forgot a tree process that writes stuff on paper for RTFB and left the tech hung out to dry.


    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 02-06-2020 at 10:57 PM.
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  9. #16
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    ^^^ my apology to Jim for hijacking this thread (I promise not to do so for long)

    @Jack - I'm sorry that we started this conversation, but it's like everything else that's new: the more I learn, the more I discover that I don't know!!. So, I've been trying to understand why your method of pulling the T105 connector works. Why does it mean that if the DTCs can be reset that the fault is in the ECU.

    My first hypothesis was that the 5V rail in the engine prewiring harness was produced by the 2 x pins on the ECU that I have boxed in my WD above. But this doesn't make sense since your method allows for the DTC to remain with the T105 connector pulled (this implies that the 5Volt rail is produced elsewhere).

    So -in usual mode, I sought inspiration from the WD: I searched for ALL instances of the term "D141 (Connection (5V) in engine prewiring harness)" and eventually I arrived at page 4/11 which is the Fuse assignment section of the WD - see copy below:



    "Success - I've found the source of the 5V rail in the engine harness", I thought initially - but looking closer, how does the arrangement shown work? How can it work? How can a 12v fuse be connected to a 5V supply - even with the asterisk conditionality noted on the WD? I hate VW's WD s -What am I missing?

    Don
    Last edited by DV52; 02-07-2020 at 12:37 AM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

  10. #17
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Like I said Don either fuse supply, ground, faulty consumer/sensor/corrosion bridge or ECU.

    The engineers fucked this up or did they deliberately not want this data released since tests like mine will get them caught in chicanery?

    I disagree I think everyone including OP will benefit from threads like this, we will know this based on the hits later, huh?

    Did you know on the Bosch units here the 5 volt ref does come from the controller and the same can happen for what OP described even with connection unplugged and ECU not be bad still?

    Did you know when testing to force circuits in either direction by decade box I inverse through a resistance of at least 1000 ohms to start with applying external 5 volts or using the controllers output of 5 volts to ground or from ref to respective sensor of error and through a decade box?

    This way I can watch each sensor in VCDS blocks and change status of DTC created or vacated in simulation, see my point?

    Sometimes I wire the respective sensor in too & then measure through meter or scope and plus watch in blocks to write my own test rules crosschecked to other new modules to reset DPF factors in EDC etc. or I do it directly in DMA, make sense?
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  11. #18
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    Problem solved.

    After receiving my ritual dose of abuse from Jack for being a landscaping "white skinned yard ape interloper", I took it upon myself to knuckle down to some serious study and spent many an hour pouring over current flow diagrams and individually testing components.

    Unexpectedly, my MAP sensor had shorted internally.
    I still find it fairly alarming that a single component can cause such a vast array of faults throughout the vehicle! I thought diagnostics was supposed to help pinpoint faults??? It seems I was wrong...

    Thanks to all for your help
    I thought I saw light at the end of the tunnel, but it turned out to be arc-eye...

  12. #19
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Problem solved.

    After receiving my ritual dose of abuse from Jack for being a landscaping "white skinned yard ape interloper", I took it upon myself to knuckle down to some serious study and spent many an hour pouring over current flow diagrams and individually testing components.

    Unexpectedly, my MAP sensor had shorted internally.
    I still find it fairly alarming that a single component can cause such a vast array of faults throughout the vehicle! I thought diagnostics was supposed to help pinpoint faults??? It seems I was wrong...

    Thanks to all for your help
    Now to be fair, was it a question & not a statement Jim, rrrrrrrrrright?

    Would not an Interloper have failed where you succeeded?

    I'm sure glad you are not an interloper!


    https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...l=1#post191053


    When trying to clear the code with engine harness unplugged did you only try in VAG mode 0x01 or did you try in OBD2 mode 0x33 because in some controllers of this era a DTC may not clear using VAG mode & sometimes needs to be done several times and is why I always request a default of ECU by re-coding?

    Controller can sometimes be a tricky Dick, huh? ..........

    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 02-07-2020 at 09:22 AM.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  13. #20
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Beagley View Post
    I thought diagnostics was supposed to help pinpoint faults??? It seems I was wrong...
    Diagnostics are only as good as the failure modes and scenarios that the software designers considered, so they should only ever be regarded as a "hint" to the source of the problem and not as absolute truth.

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