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Thread: TT-RS 2013 where is the G83 sensor ?

  1. #1
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    TT-RS 2013 where is the G83 sensor ?

    TT-RS from 2013, has a P2181 cooling performance fault along with an intermittent coolant temperate gauge.
    I changed the 2 pin G62 sensor as that seems to be a common VAG fault but the problems continue.
    The wiring diagram shows a G83 ECT supposedly on the radiator but it's not there.
    Also confirmed the G62 is working and car using it by pulling the plug on it, whereby the fan's went into emergency oh shit mode lol.

    Where oh where is the dastardly G83 on my CEPB engine and anyone know what measuring block it is ?
    And a part number pretty please.

    Think I may have found it, behind the oil dip stick and above the thermostat housing. Can anyone confirm ?
    I really need the measuring block because it is going to be a serious pain to get to.
    Last edited by quattrohead; 01-28-2020 at 01:59 PM.
    2013 TTRS

  2. #2
    Ross-Tech Employee DrPeter's Avatar
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    Hello,

    Based on some research in the www.PartsLink24.com website and the Audi [Self-Study Program 990713 - Audi TT RS with the 2.5L TFSI Engine], the 2013 Audi CEPA 2,5L 5-cylinder engine found in the Audi TTRS (03/2009 to 06/2014) does not use a G83-Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor on Radiator Outlet.

    This engine only uses the G62-Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor, found on the 'Engine Coolant Water Outlet Housing'.

    For the P2181-Performance Malfunction in Cooling System fault code, when I was at the Audi dealership we suggested to replace both the G62 sensor and the coolant thermostat, because either one could potentially cause this fault code.

    Hope this helps,

    drpeter

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  4. #3
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    Your research has confirmed what I have found so far, the G83 sensor is not documented on the CEPB version of this engine.
    I changed the G62 because it was simple and cheap and can confirm it's working by watching it in the software.
    This also seems to confirm the thermostat is working and indeed, the temperature gauge will sometimes randomly work for a while then die again.
    There is a sensor behind the dip stick/top of the thermostat area that is not documented in the "component locations" diagram page 856/31
    My wiring diagram is from 04.2011, a little before this model hit the USA.
    2013 TTRS

  5. #4
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    Can I somehow "trick" VCDS into reading the G83 sensor position from another car that does have it ?
    Any possibility the engine ECU are physically similar such that we can map the G83 input pin.
    I'm thinking the TT-RS is the bastard child of a VW 5 cylinder model and the TTS.
    2013 TTRS

  6. #5
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quattrohead View Post
    Can I somehow "trick" VCDS into reading the G83 sensor position from another car that does have it ?
    Any possibility the engine ECU are physically similar such that we can map the G83 input pin.
    I'm thinking the TT-RS is the bastard child of a VW 5 cylinder model and the TTS.
    VCDS can only show you what the car knows and is willing to tell.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  7. #6
    Ross-Tech Employee Dana's Avatar
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    If you found a 2nd coolant related sensor that isn't documented (mystery sensor) I'd be tempted to unplug it to see what new fault code the controller happens to reward you with. Doing so may add clarity .. but if doesn't please post the Auto-Scan with VIN so I can take a crack at the repair info we have.

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  9. #7
    VCDS Distributor
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    Please make controller maps, plugged and unplugged.

    [Applications]
    [Controller Channel Map]
    - Controller Address = 01
    - Login or security code: Leave blank
    - Function: Measuring values
    - Output: CSV file
    [Go]

    Files are placed in c:\Roos-Tech\Logs

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  11. #8
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    As requested controller maps and log. I managed to get to the mystery connector and it is an injector.
    Please ignore the G62 error, that is from when I unplugged the sensor.
    http://quattrohead.com/TTRS/
    2013 TTRS

  12. #9
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Vehicle Identification No. TRUB3AFK2D1900502
    Model Audi TTRS Plus Coupe
    quattro 2.5
    TTRS
    Date of production 13.09.2012
    Model year 2013
    Sales type 8J35R9
    Engine Code CEPB
    Transmission Code LNA

    Emission standard 7GB Emission standard ULEV 2


    JPPSG
    https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...uot-JPPSG-quot

    PSSST G62 and G83 SAME THING, NOPE!

    RTFB will show you?


    Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor 1 or 2,

    Checking WARNING
    * Cooling system is under pressure.
    * Danger of scalding when opening!



    Note : ONLY Use gold-plated terminals when servicing terminals in the electrical harness connector of Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83-.
    Special tools and workshop equipment required
    Multi-meter.
    jumper wire.

    Wiring diagram.
    DECADE BOX
    Test requirements
    * The Engine Control Module (ECM) - J623- fuses OK.
    * Battery voltage at least 12.5 volts.
    * All electrical consumers such as, lights and rear window defroster, switched off.
    * Vehicles with automatic transmission, shift selector lever into position “P” or “N”.
    * A/C switched off.
    * Ground connections between engine/transmission/chassis OK.
    * Ignition switched OFF.
    * Engine COLD.


    Test procedure
    – Perform a preliminary check to verify the customers complaint. Refer to → Chapter „Preliminary Check“
    Start diagnosis
    – Connect the scan tool.
    – Switch the ignition On.
    – Using the scan tool, check the coolant temperature:

    Diagnostic text Specified value
    Coolant temperature near Ambient temperature (veh. completely cooled down)


    – Switch the ignition Off.
    If the specified value was Not obtained:
    – Continue test according to the following table:

    Indicated Cause Test
    approx. - 40.0 C Open circuit or short circuit to (B+) → Anchor
    approx. 140.0 C Short circuit to Ground → Anchor


    If the specified value was obtained:
    – Start the engine and let it run at idle.
    The temperature value must increase uniformly in increments of 1.0 C.
    If the engine shows problems in certain temperature ranges, if the temperature does not climb uniformly or the temperature signal is intermittent.
    – Switch the ignition OFF.
    – Replace the the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor - G62 or G83- .
    Checking internal resistance
    – Disconnect the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83- electrical harness connector.
    – Using a multimeter, check the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83- terminals 1 to 2 for resistance.
    Use the chart below for the specified values:

    ECT Temperature vs Resistance


    Temp (C) min. value ohms max value ohms
    - 40 36816 43714
    - 35 28840 33978
    - 25 17680 20530
    - 15 10940 12534
    - 5 6897 7804
    0 5535 6226
    5 4443 4970
    15 2923 3235
    25 1978 2167
    35 1369 1486
    45 965 1039
    55 692 738
    65 503 533
    75 372 392
    85 279 292
    95 213 223
    105 164 172
    115 127 134
    125 99 106
    135 78 84


    If the specified value was Not obtained:
    – Replace the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83- .
    Testing if display is approx. - 40.0 C
    – Disconnect the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83- electrical harness connector .
    – Using a jumper wire, connect the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83- electrical harness connector terminals 1 to 2.
    – Check the value indicated on the scan tool display.
    If the value jumps to approx. 140.0 C:
    – Switch the ignition OFF.
    – Replace the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83- .
    If indication remains at approx. -40.0 C:
    Checking wiring
    – Remove the Engine Control Module (ECM) -J623-. Refer to the Repair Manual.
    – Using a multi-meter, check the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83- electrical harness connector terminal 1 to the Engine Control Module (ECM) -J623- electrical harness connector for an open circuit or a short to voltage, refer to the chart below for the appropriate sensor. Refer to Wiring Diagrams for pin locations.
    ECT 1

    Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 - electrical harness connector terminals Engine Control Module (ECM) -J623- electrical connector T60 terminals
    1 14
    2 10


    ECT 2

    Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -2 G83- electrical harness connector terminals Engine Control Module (ECM) -J623- electrical connector T94 terminals
    1 18
    2 12

    A TONE GEN TO THESE TERMINALS ABOVE ON T94 WILL LEAD THE WAY!
    Specified values: 1.5 Ω Max. and 0 volts disconnected from ECM.
    If the specified value was Not obtained:
    – Check the wiring for an open or short circuit to Battery (+).
    – Check the electrical harness connector for damage, corrosion, loose or broken terminals.
    – If necessary, repair the faulty wiring connection.
    If no malfunction is detected in the signal circuit:
    – Using a multi-meter, check terminal 2 of the ECT sensor to engine ground.
    Specified value: 1.5 Ω Max
    If the specified value was Not obtained:
    – Check the wiring for an open circuit or high resistance.
    – Check the electrical harness connector for damage, corrosion, loose or broken terminals.
    – If necessary, repair the faulty wiring connection.
    If no malfunction is detected in the ground circuit:
    – Replace the Engine Control Module (ECM) -J623-. Refer to the Repair Manual.
    Testing if display approx. 140.0 C
    – Disconnect the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83- electrical harness connector .
    – Turn the ignition switch ON.
    If indication jumps to approx. -40.0 C:
    – Switch ignition OFF.
    – Replace the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83- .
    If indication remains at approx. 140.0 C:
    Checking wiring
    – Remove the Engine Control Module (ECM) -J623-. Refer to the Repair Manual.
    – Disconnect the ECT harness connector at the sensor.
    – Using a multi-meter, check the signal circuit of the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor -G62 or G83- electrical harness connector terminal 1 to engine ground. Refer to Wiring Diagrams for pin locations.
    Specified value: OL or no continuity.
    If the specified value was Not obtained:
    – Check the wiring for a short circuit to Ground.
    – Check the electrical harness connector for damage, corrosion, loose or broken terminals.
    – If necessary, repair the faulty wiring connection.
    If no malfunction is detected in the wiring:
    – Replace the Engine Control Module (ECM) -J623-. Refer to the Repair Manual.
    Final procedures
    After the repair work, the following work steps must be performed in the following sequence:
    1 - Check the DTC memory. Refer to → Chapter „Diagnostic Mode 03 - Read DTC Memory“.
    2 - If necessary, erase the DTC memory. Refer to → Chapter „Diagnostic Mode 04 - Erase DTC Memory“.
    3 - If the DTC memory was erased, generate readiness code. Refer to → Chapter „Readiness Code“.



    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 01-31-2020 at 07:48 PM.
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  13. #10
    VCDS Distributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by quattrohead View Post
    As requested controller maps and log.
    Could you post the raw CSV file (s) here:
    Write these codes [code] and insert text data here between.. [/code]
    Or click [Go Advanced], use # icon.

    Edit: Sorry I found it know.
    Last edited by NEtech; 02-01-2020 at 03:00 AM. Reason: Found csv file

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