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Thread: 2002 Bora 1,6L AZD-Engine takes 12-15 L / 100km :(

  1. #1
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    2002 Bora 1,6L AZD-Engine takes 12-15 L / 100km :(

    This little Bora is drinking a little to much for the Owner.

    So he shot the Parts Canon at it
    - Full Inspection with Oil Change
    - New Fuel Filter
    - New EGR Valve
    - New Coils and Spark Plugs
    - New Front & Rear O2-Sensor
    - New Theromastat and Coolant Temp-Sensor
    - New Intake Airtemp & Pressure Sensor
    - New Belts , Pulleys and Tensioners + 3 times Timing Checked.

    Then he ran out of Ideas and gave me a Call if i would take a look.

    After First Look, i Cleaned and relearned the Throttle Body and gave the ECU a Software Update.

    Then took the Car for a Spin to look what it does or not.
    It starts, it drives (even +- 5 km/h from top Speed it should have ) and idles stable.

    First i noticed 3 Things :
    - Misfire Counter NEVER goes "Active" - always Disabled, but can´t feel it misfiring.
    - Long Term in MWB 032 ALWAYS stays at 0,0% in Both fields.
    - Fuel Trim in MWB 1 is at ABOUT 0 % (plus/minus 4 %) - didin´t look bad - 7% at most on full Accel.

    But i couldn ´t get the Car under 10 L / 100km even with 1-10% Throttle Pedal
    "Normal" Driving results in what he said in my Case 14,3 Liter/100km.
    After the Test Drive i got a Error in VCDS, so lets look what and at OBD Data and HERE it gets "strange".

    OBD Long term at - 70% ??? And i can´t get it away - Update , Battery-Off, ADP 00 - no Change !
    But MWB 32 in VCDS tells and stays at 0,0 % ?!
    In OBD-II i get a P0171 and in VW-Mode i get a P1152.

    Both Codes say System has NOT ENOUGH Fuel - but the Car is Taking Fuel as if its a W8
    And both O2 go to 800-900mV at WOT.Idle and driving front one is switching from 100-850mV.

    After that i called him and, yes , the VCDS-Code P1152 and sometimes a CAT-Code was there since
    he started having this Problem and still is

    I then tested Fuel Pressure and it´s 2,7bar and goes to 3,1bar at WOT.
    Fuel is from Shell and he even tryed 100 Octan, without Difference.

    Code:
    VCDS Version: DRV 19.6.2.1  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4513.4
    Datenstand: 20191020 DS308.0
    www.Ross-Tech.de
    
    Händler-/Werkstattname: Chrisi
    Betriebsnummer: 123 12345 012345
    
    Fahrzeug-Ident.-Nr.: WVWZZZ1JZ2W025348   KFZ-Kennzeichen: BORA
    Kilometerstand: 199640km   Reparaturauftrag: 
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Fahrzeugtyp: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
    Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
              76
     
    Fahrzeug-Ident.-Nr.: WVWZZZ1JZ2W025348   Kilometerstand: 199640km
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Adresse 01: Motorelektronik        Labeldatei: DRV\036-906-034-AZD.clb
       Teilenummer: 036 906 034 CN
       Bauteil:  MARELLI 4MV        5164  
       Codierung: 00031
       Betriebsnr.: WSC 00000  
       VCID: 609AAAEFD3558C47A96-4B5C
       WVWZZZ1JZ2W025348     VWZ7Z0A3676358
    
    Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.
    Readiness: 1010 0101
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Adresse 03: Bremsenelektronik        Labeldatei: DRV\1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
       Teilenummer: 1C0 907 379 E
       Bauteil: ESP FRONT MK60      0104  
       Codierung: 0011266
       Betriebsnr.: WSC 01317 785 00200
       VCID: 2C020EDFEA1D182745E-5184
    
    Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Adresse 15: Airbag        Labeldatei: DRV\6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
       Teilenummer: 1C0 909 605 A
       Bauteil: 27 AIRBAG VW51 01     01  
       Codierung: 12855
       Betriebsnr.: WSC 01317  
       VCID: 221EE0E79DD9DE57FF2-4B3C
    
    Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Adresse 17: Schalttafeleinsatz        Labeldatei: DRV\1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
       Teilenummer: 1J5 920 826 A
       Bauteil: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V02  
       Codierung: 05113
       Betriebsnr.: WSC 00000  
       VCID: 2C020EDFEF1D182745E-513C
       WVWZZZ1JZ2W025348     VWZ7Z0A3676358
    
    Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Adresse 19: Diagnoseinterface        Labeldatei: DRV\6N0-909-901-19.lbl
       Teilenummer: 6N0 909 901 
       Bauteil: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
       Codierung: 00006
       Betriebsnr.: WSC 01317  
       VCID: 70BADAAF03B53CC7396-5160
    
    Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Adresse 46: Komfortsystem        Labeldatei: DRV\1C0-959-799.lbl
       Teilenummer: 1C0 959 799 B
       Bauteil: 18 Komfortgerát HLO 0003  
       Codierung: 00259
       Betriebsnr.: WSC 01317  
       VCID: 36362CB7215152F723A-4B1E
    
       Subsystem 1 - Teilenummer: 1C1959801A
       Bauteil: 18 Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0003  
    
       Subsystem 2 - Teilenummer: 1C1959802A
       Bauteil: 18 Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0002  
    
       Subsystem 3 - Teilenummer: 1C0959811A
       Bauteil: 18 Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0001  
    
       Subsystem 4 - Teilenummer: 1C0959812A
       Bauteil: 18 Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0002  
    
    Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.
    
    Ende--------(Dauer: 05:04, Batt.-Spannung Start/Ende: 14.4V/14.2V)---------
    Good Ideas ? ECU gone Mad ?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by vagtuning; 01-27-2020 at 12:04 PM.
    ** If you can´t fix it - Don´t break it ! **

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  3. #2
    Ross-Tech Employee Jef's Avatar
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    Were C.R.A.P. ammo loaded up into the Parts Cannon?
    Fuel pressure should be right at 2.5BAR. If you get pressure on the fuel rail with the engine off (hot wire lift pump) and then pinch off the lines, does the rail hold pressure? Or do the injectors leak?
    Jef
    Ross Tech Support Team, Alpha Squad
    Auto-Scan, learn it, love it, live it... then check the fuses.

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  5. #3
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    No, Parts Canon was loaded with about 70% Original VW Parts and 30 % Good Aftermarket (Beru/Bosch/NGK)
    I will check that again how long it holds and if the old analog Gauge maybe off a bit, but don´t think
    they leak, because starts fine even after Shutting off hot and starting back up warm or cold.
    I would think a leaking Inj. would then cause bad starting or rough running after start for a few seconds or
    at least a delayed starting.

    What i don´t get is :
    - Why 0,0% on MWB32 while OBD-II LT states -70% ??
    (No, VCDS OBD-II says the same as a Launch Handheld OBD and a Bosch KTS)
    - Why if -70 % does the ECU flag a "lean" Code - i would think it seeing too much Fuel and trying to cut 70% off ?
    - Why is the ST at around 0% +- 4% while LT at - 70 ?
    - IF the -70% were the actual reading , and it´s adding 70% at Base Value, would explain the big Consumption,
    but why is the Base Injection Time of the Injectors still at 3ms according to VCDS ? (Should be 2-4ms if i remember right),
    would that not then be at 5 to 6ms ?
    Last edited by vagtuning; 01-27-2020 at 03:38 PM.
    ** If you can´t fix it - Don´t break it ! **

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    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Any chance the ECU software has been "tuned"?

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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  8. #5
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    Yes somehow ECU gone mad, strange long term cannot reset.
    Tried coding with same again.

    Any exhaust, intake leaks, or egr.

    Maybe somebody changed something in those many unknown Magneti Marelli.

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  10. #6
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    When it came, it had a real "base" old Version on it, and i updated the SW with ODIS to the last available Version.
    And it´s a 77KW 1,6l - no 1,8 Turbo, and lastly, the old Owner was born 1957, the new owner maybe +5 Years later.
    Both are in my mind really no candidates for Chiptuning....even with, what would you gain, maybe 5 or 7 PS ??
    And i would think that the Stock update would have overwritten it....
    ** If you can´t fix it - Don´t break it ! **

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  12. #7
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    Nothing noticeable Exhaust-Leaks, just the standard little oil/Water-Mixup at the bottom of the connection clamp
    between the Middle and the Last Muffler. You can even make the Engine chugg when you hold it tight with your hand and Towl.
    Intake passed Smoke test,the Intake gasket to the Cylinderhead was changed with the EGR together as well as the Gaskets
    to the TB.
    ** If you can´t fix it - Don´t break it ! **

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    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagtuning View Post
    the old Owner was born 1957, the new owner maybe +5 Years later.
    Both are in my mind really no candidates for Chiptuning
    I claim ageism, I ws born in 1956 and I'm still running a car (non-VAG) which has been chip tuned. It's not just about more power/torque it's about smoother delivery by getting rid of the deliberate flat spots introduced to meet the stupid standard test cycle emission figures.
    Last edited by PetrolDave; 01-28-2020 at 09:31 AM.

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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetrolDave View Post
    I claim ageism, I ws born in 1956 and I'm still running a car (non-VAG) which has been chip tuned. It's nit just about more power/torque it's about smoother delivery by getting rid of the deliberate flat spots introduced to meet the stupid standard test cycle emission figures.
    I trump both of you! 1951 and drive whatever I need to diagnose, including motorcycles.
    Regards HMC

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  18. #10
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    Both Codes say System has NOT ENOUGH Fuel - but the Car is Taking Fuel as if its a W8
    And both O2 go to 800-900mV at WOT.Idle and driving front one is switching from 100-850mV.
    This sounds a bit suspicious to me. Can You make a graph of both O2 sensor voltages at idle, at 2500-3000 rpm and at WOT and post here? With engine at working temperature, of course.

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