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Thread: People renting VCDS

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mak View Post
    You should rent them and not give them back. They keep the deposit and then have to buy another one from you :-)
    That wouldn't be financially feasible for Ross-Tech to do in my opinion. You are talking about throwing away $49+$350 when a genuine current generation Ross-Tech cable only costs $199 for DIYers. After you have gotten the "genuine" ~$49 rentals off the market, there will still be (possibly millions of) Chinese knock-offs now made available for rental on eBay (since you have now made it a lucrative business to intentionally forfeit the $350 security deposit).

    I'm surprised that group on eBay actually make any money, since there are cheaper third party alternatives with label files and everything accessible from your smartphone.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by myounus View Post
    We could go further and say why doesn't VCDS do more? Why can't it flash like ODIS e or VCP?
    You are putting Ross-Tech in dangerous territory when a careless end-user bricks a car during a botched flashing operation such as an airbag, ECU, immobilizer or instrument cluster and the car refuses to start. Who accepts liability then?

  3. #13
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Bruce I agree with the principles but the world has changed. VCDS is the best undoubtedly which is why you're getting unscrupulous individuals cheating the very people who have those principles.
    We could go further and say why doesn't VCDS do more? Why can't it flash like ODIS e or VCP? Why can't it add parameters? Why is it restricted?

    There are so many thieves making forgeries for profit, stealing money that could be reinvested in giving the cable those options to help the community. There comes a time where you have to balance that. Let's look at this another way, if VCDS goes under what is left for all VAG enthusiasts, 2000 crappy programmers or getting ripped off by VAG.

    Locks are for honest people, the skilled or even copy cat thief needs no keys!







    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 01-21-2020 at 05:47 PM.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by myounus View Post
    Why can't it flash like ODIS e or VCP? Why can't it add parameters?
    Agree -wholeheartedly!!! Why-not? Also agree about the excellence of VCDS in the diagnostic industry FOR WHAT IT DOES. But alas, when viewed from the perspective of a usable multi-function device -VCDS's podium position has to be downgraded to penultimate status (because of its EEPROM limitations).

    Quote Originally Posted by myounus View Post
    Why is it restricted?

    A very good question indeed!! Why does Ross-Tech leave the EEPROM market to VCP and ODIS? It's clear that Ross-Tech sees VCDS as having a legitimate place in the "professional" sales sector. Just read the posts on this forum and it's not surprising that lots of "professionals" are participating. So why not capture the clearly obvious sales opportunities in that market sector? To do so would advantage both buyers (because it satisfies an obvious need) and the shareholder(s). So, a rare win-win outcome (and this is one of those even more rare win-win situations where both wins don't fall to the seller! ).

    Perhaps VCDS's absence from the EEPROM market is because RT sees its future in the "enthusiast" sales sector (not sure). And, perhaps a move into the EEPROM market is seen as possibly alienating less-sophisticated users (again, not sure). If this is so (and in support of mantra from other responses) even that other "enthusiast-centric" manufacturer, OBDeleven has recognized that "times-they are a chang'n" - their latest NEXTGEN dongles now support EEPROM programming (notwithstanding that I haven't actuality been able to make this new function work).

    I acknowledge of course that these are matters for Ross-Tech to decide - it's just interesting (IMO) to speculate as an outsider - from a user perspective with no ill intentions in putting thoughts to pen/keyboard!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by NitrousOxide View Post
    You are putting Ross-Tech in dangerous territory when a careless end-user bricks a car during a botched flashing operation such as an airbag, ECU, immobilizer or instrument cluster and the car refuses to start. Who accepts liability then?
    With respect - if this risk motivates Ross-Tech's corporate decisions to not enter the EEPROM market, then their competitors' Board (i.e for VCP, and ODIS, and (now) OBD11) are either woefully negligent to their shareholders, or they have found the secret risk mitigation solution!!!

    In truth, these risks (if they exist in any real form to the manufacturers at all) can be, and are managed by virtually every corporate enterprise around the world. This same risk exist now for Ross-Tech in that it's entirely possible to "brick" a car with the current VCDS capabilities. The legal consequences of a user suing Ross-Tech for his/her mistakes must be small (even in a litigious country like Ross-Tech's home) else Uwe and his band of merry-men would be working in another industry by now (IMO)

    Don
    Last edited by DV52; 01-21-2020 at 10:41 PM.
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  7. #15
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myounus View Post
    Why not make the forums accesible only to members only. That should kill the black market and stop this sort of behaviour.
    People used to ask that about the RT Wiki too. Sure, clone users, and even users of other tools benefit from the information published there, but in the end, the see who put it out there, which acts as a form of advertising and brings us business. The same is true with the forum. Use the internet search engine of your choice and look for VAG related info and chances are good some of the top results will be in the RT Wiki, forum, or some of the static content on the main site. If we limit this stuff to registered users only, it basically kills its advertising value.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    A very good question indeed!! Why does Ross-Tech leave the EEPROM market to VCP and ODIS?
    Goodness, we've strayed far off the original topic of rental cables.

    It's due to quite a few factors.

    That's all I'm going to say about it for now.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    Perhaps VCDS's absence from the EEPROM market is because RT sees its future in the "enthusiast" sales sector (not sure). And, perhaps a move into the EEPROM market is seen as possibly alienating less-sophisticated users (again, not sure).
    I'm of the opinion, you have answered the question correctly.

    As it relates to your example of OBDeleven moving into the EEPROM market, it is a delicate topic as some of the "features" or "One-click Apps" that OBDeleven are not always thoroughly tested, or contains bugs which has resulted in numerous coding issues in people's modules (such as that annoying byte 18 which people misunderstand when playing around with the lights). You and I have to go through and moderate those threads where individuals make all sorts of improper coding changes without even creating a basic "backup" or original coding and adaptations. Are you sure you really want to give OBDeleven users the ability to do EEPROM changes? Folks who feel the need to access EEPROM by now would have already have ODISe, VCP, AVDI / Abrites, etc.

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  11. #18
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Not just liability with consumer but would not the next thing that happens, is VCDS would be considered a possible defeat device by regulatory agencies or regulations in the US or other Countries too?
    Change of configuration from certificate of conformity is exactly why diesel gate scandal was such an Issue right and they lied to consumer? Who the hell wants part of those liability implications for even being accused of failing to comport with Safe Act or Clean Air Act?

    It has forced me doing lawful repairs to keep logs of everything I do & to prove integrity, with a paper trail of documents as if doing FAA repairs doing an annual or AD on aircraft, why? Fuck that, I'm not going to be sacrificed for anyone's forged bullshit instrument and if you don't think some asshole in law enforcement would try too and to advance a career you are sadly mistaken, right?

    Hey do you know why I pulled you over?
    Why were you speeding?
    Yeah you were pushing me tailgating illegally and it's documented on cars DVR on cloud, did you know what you did is wrong and entrapment, want to go to court civilly and litigate it?
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 01-21-2020 at 09:55 PM.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
    Certified Master Trained NY/BAR/BAD 7076062/ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts
    Above Magic! No Written record, AUTO-SCAN or Appointment = NO HELP!
    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email or call facility for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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  13. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NitrousOxide View Post
    Are you sure you really want to give ... users [of that other manufacturer] the ability to do EEPROM changes? Folks who feel the need to access EEPROM by now would have already have ODISe, VCP, AVDI / Abrites, etc.
    .

    It's too late anyways, because the EEPROM facility has been released, but without a shadow of a doubt- my answer is a resounding "YES" - most definitely I would favor making an EEPROM facility available!!!

    IMHO, the correct principle to apply for decision making in this matter (and it ain't particularly focused on that other manufacturer's dongles) is the counterfactual question: should the rest of the market that has an interest in using their diagnostic devices for EEPROM changes be denied that facility because the are some "less informed" users (and I don't intend this descriptor as a pejorative term - we were ALL "less informed" at some time)?

    As a general rule, I don't believe that corporations and commercial products are advantaged by being led by the slowest users. I know that it's a cliche - but quite the opposite, excellence in commerce is about satisfying the most informed users needs (because it's these opportunities that eventually and invariably become the norm)

    Don
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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  15. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    Yeah you were pushing me tailgating illegally and it's documented on cars DVR on cloud, did you know what you did is wrong and entrapment, want to go to court civilly and litigate it?
    Jack: wow - what can I say? Most definitely, you are an individual thinker (which is a good thing)!!

    Have you ever needed to take the DVR data before a judge, or has the mere fact of its existence been sufficient?

    Don
    VW Golf MkVII (MY13) - A3 8V hatch (MY17)

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