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Thread: ABS - VCDS accessing ABS controller module - what is turned off?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Please describe what you mean by "early activation" in as much detail as possible.

    -Uwe-
    Moderate braking, not a panic type stop. Sort of when you are going at 50 mph down a slight grade, 100-150 feet away the traffic light turns red. I brake moderately to stop, going from 50mph to about 40-35 mph the ABS activates. I can repeat this at will. If I hook up VCDS, there is no early ABS activation at the same hill spots.

    Here is a plot of my wheel speed sensors versus brake pressure at the same hill spot, no early ABS activation, with VCDS hooked up. I don't understand why the brake pressure goes to a max value, and then decreases the pressure to zero before I stop even though I have not removed my foot pressure from the brake pedal. If the pressure is going to zero while the car is slowing down, what is keeping the wheel brake cylinders under pressure? The ABS pump?
    Last edited by Fussybob; 01-22-2020 at 08:31 PM.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post



    Did you consider returning vehicle to comport with its imported or original qualified build configuration & to match it's conformity?
    As I stated in a previous post I did turn the steering DSR back on and I still have early ABS activation. Other Q5 mods are minor tweaks, needle sweep, no turn signal wink, gear selection indicator, etc. Nothing to affect the ABS.

    Otherwise the Q5 is stock.

  4. #13
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Moderate braking, not a panic type stop. Sort of when you are going at 50 mph down a slight grade, 100-150 feet away the traffic light turns red. I brake moderately to stop, going from 50mph to about 40-35 mph the ABS activates. I can repeat this at will. If I hook up VCDS, there is no early ABS activation at the same hill spots.

    Here is a plot of my wheel speed sensors versus brake pressure at the same hill spot, no early ABS activation, with VCDS hooked up. I don't understand why the brake pressure goes to a max value, and then decreases the pressure to zero before I stop even though I have not removed my foot pressure from the brake pedal. If the pressure is going to zero while the car is slowing down, what is keeping the wheel brake cylinders under pressure? The ABS pump?


    As I stated in a previous post I did turn the steering DSR back on and I still have early ABS activation. Other Q5 mods are minor tweaks, needle sweep, no turn signal wink, gear selection indicator, etc. Nothing to affect the ABS.

    Otherwise the Q5 is stock.

    OMG...........

    When VCDS is hooked up & in communication with the ABS in a diagnostic session mode, it is not functional outside review of block data to check sensor plausibility or switching security access to other modes for adaption counts, did you read the SSP & RTFB?

    GOLD AT LAST!

    Last edited by Uwe; 01-22-2020 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Snipped Quote
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    OMG...........

    When VCDS is hooked up & in communication with the ABS in a diagnostic session mode, it is not functional outside review of block data to check sensor plausibility or switching security access to other modes for adaption counts, did you read the SSP & RTFB?
    When I have VCDS hooked up, accessing the ABS controller, and brake on snow the ABS activates just like it normally should. So where you state that it should not have ABS functioning, it does for me. I assume that you mean the Audi/VW brake system SSP's. I have read them and don't see anything in there stating about what is on or off during diagnostic mode. Unless I'm not reading the correct SSP. What is RTFB?
    Last edited by Uwe; 01-22-2020 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Snipped Quote

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fussybob View Post
    Moderate braking, not a panic type stop. Sort of when you are going at 50 mph down a slight grade, 100-150 feet away the traffic light turns red. I brake moderately to stop, going from 50mph to about 40-35 mph the ABS activates. I can repeat this at will.
    Again, please describe the this activation. One or two clicks felt in the pedal, or full-on, "I'm not gonna brake as hard as you'd wish I would"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fussybob View Post
    Here is a plot of my wheel speed sensors versus brake pressure at the same hill spot, no early ABS activation, with VCDS hooked up. I don't understand why the brake pressure goes to a max value, and then decreases the pressure to zero before I stop even though I have not removed my foot pressure from the brake pedal.
    That graph would be easier to interpret if the X-axis were stretched some. But it looks to me like the pressure goes to zero right around the time that the vehicle stops, and peak pressure is reached at a good ways into the deceleration. I think the pressure drop is caused at least in part by your foot. It takes less pressure to maintain a constant decelleration as the vehicle slows down because the slower you go, the less energy the brakes need to dissipate for each unit of dV. Your foot (or really your brain) learns this fairly early on and compensates for it.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Again, please describe the this activation. One or two clicks felt in the pedal, or full-on, "I'm not gonna brake as hard as you'd wish I would"?


    That graph would be easier to interpret if the X-axis were stretched some. But it looks to me like the pressure goes to zero right around the time that the vehicle stops, and peak pressure is reached at a good ways into the deceleration. I think the pressure drop is caused at least in part by your foot. It takes less pressure to maintain a constant decelleration as the vehicle slows down because the slower you go, the less energy the brakes need to dissipate for each unit of dV. Your foot (or really your brain) learns this fairly early on and compensates for it.

    -Uwe-
    Yes my brain/foot is most likely the cause. I'll need to repeat this test and focus to never let up on the brake pedal pressure when coming to the complete stop.

  8. #17
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    When I have VCDS hooked up, accessing the ABS controller, and brake on snow the ABS activates just like it normally should. So where you state that it should not have ABS functioning, it does for me. I assume that you mean the Audi/VW brake system SSP's. I have read them and don't see anything in there stating about what is on or off during diagnostic mode. Unless I'm not reading the correct SSP. What is RTFB?
    Merely questions sir not a statement to clarify do you understand?

    Isn't RTFB identified if highlighted in the forum with your mouse cursor?

    What's this say?
    https://www.definitions.net/definition/RTFB

    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...ir_Information

    Here is a statement below okay?

    Your car is not stock and clearly FOD, further I recommend as a professional & free advice, that you conduct and configure your car to perform a qualified comporting repair using the RTFB & SVM or return your car to a proper backed up config with VCDS. Maybe pay attention to your braking more carefully like Uwe aforementioned.


    You may want to enter the "tweaks or retrofits section" I'm NOT typically in that area & due to taking issue with it on my own principle values, however, here the questions will be with continuity and continue to be the same, get it?

    Inertia change reported by acceleration/deceleration sensor on network?

    Did you read about Downhill assist control yet?

    https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-657-audi-q5-type-fy/

    https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-433-audi-q5/

    Downhill Assist Control In the Audi Q7, the function is activated by depressing the foot brake.In the Audi Q5, the Downhill Assist Control can, for the first time, be activated by a separate switch.Unlike comparable systems of other manufacturers,the system in the Audi Q5 is not preset to a very low constant nominal speed.The control variable is the speed at which the vehicle is travelling on entering the gradient.The system basically functions in the same way as the system in the Q7. Like in the Q7,the function of the EBD is modified when reversing by applying increased braking force to the rear axle. This is detected by the fact that reverse gear is engaged. Downhill Assist Control is also active when no gears engaged or the clutch is actuated.

    Downhill Assist Control The intervention range has been extended over the Audi Q7 and, in the case of the Audi Q5, is at speeds of between 9 kph and 30 kph. The function can be switch-operated at speeds of up to 60 kph. The function is automatically deactivated when a speed of 60 kph is exceeded.When Downhill Assist Control is active and in Standby mode, this is indicated to the driver in the center display at speeds of up to 30 kph. The LED in the switch lights up when the function is activated at speeds of up to 60 kph.




    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 01-22-2020 at 09:28 PM.
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  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fussybob View Post
    Yes my brain/foot is most likely the cause. I'll need to repeat this test and focus to never let up on the brake pedal pressure when coming to the complete stop.
    That will be a very jerky stop, especially at the end.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post
    Merely questions sir not a statement to clarify do you understand?

    Isn't RTFB identified if highlighted in the forum with your mouse cursor?

    What's this say?
    https://www.definitions.net/definition/RTFB

    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...ir_Information

    Here is a statement below okay?

    Your car is not stock and clearly FOD, further I recommend as professional & free advice, that you conduct and configure your car to perform a qualified comporting repair using the RTFB & SVM or return your car to a proper baked up config with VCDS. Maybe pay attention to your braking more carefully like Uwe aforementioned.


    You may want to enter the "tweaks or retrofits section" I'm NOT typically in that area & due to taking issue with it on my own principle values, however, here the questions will be with continuity and continue to be the same, get it?

    Inertia change reported by acceleration/deceleration sensor on network?

    Did you read about Downhill assist control?

    https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-657-audi-q5-type-fy/

    https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-433-audi-q5/


    I have all the Audi Q5 service manuals, VCDS, SSPs, etc. I have 2 engineering degrees, one in electrical engineering, one in mechanical engineering from Penn State. Spent a lot of time developing automotive electrical products for customers such as, Bosch, VW. BMW, etc. Unfortunately I'm retired or I would have been on the phone with my company's Germany reps, having them find out which Audi/VW ABS system engineer I can talk with. I understand a lot of this ABS. I'm just stumped on why the early ABS activation happens when VCDS is not connected, and early ABS activation doesn't happen when VCDS is connected. I felt this was a good forum to post on seeing that it is the Ross-Tech VCDS run forum. That I just may be lucky to find someone who knows what is turned on/off when VCDS is connected to the ABS controller in diagnostic mode. That information may just not exist here, and most likely no where else on the net. If I can not fix it, I will trade in the Q5 as it is a safety hazard right now. I will tell the dealer that in writing, have him acknowledge the issue and sign a release. I really don't like the quality of the GEN II Q5's and will most likely buy a Jaguar F-Pace if I have to.

    For 6.5 years my Q5 did not exhibit early ABS activation with the same minor mods done to it. Those minor mods don't affect the ABS system in any way...………..
    Last edited by Fussybob; 01-22-2020 at 09:51 PM.

  12. #20
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    As an engineer I'm sure you are aware that the ABS systems are not fairing well at NHTSA huh?
    Further with those credentials couldn't you just ask your friends at Bosch and ETAS, to let you review the files stack using INCA?
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