2009 R32 - high fuel trim on bank 1

cas · Nov 8, 2019

Hello all,

I have a 2009 R32 on which I've been trying to track down a high partial fuel trim on Bank 1. It varies from around +12 to +19 at the worst.
Bank 2 sits steady around +7.
Idle fuel trims for both banks around +0.2

It's had:

New fuel filter
New fuel pumps (both)
New CTS
New MAF
New plugs
New pre-cat O2 sensors
Transposed the coil packs between bank 1 / bank 2

I'm running out of ideas... Possibly a false lean from an exhaust gasket leaking under load, or maybe a bad injector?

There aren't any vacuum leaks and the idle trims suggest that to be the case too.

If any one has any ideas about how to narrow this down further I would be most grateful.

Cheers!

Code:

Friday,08,November,2019,19:09:26:09551
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x86
VCDS Version: 19.6.2.0  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4508.4
Data version: 20190930 DS308.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWPM51K99W138436   License Plate: 
Mileage: 173670km-107913mi   Repair Order: 


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 25 42 44 46 52 55 56 62 72 76
         

VIN: WVWPM51K99W138436   Mileage: 173670km-107913miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
22-AWD -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
76-Park Assist -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 022-906-032-BDB.lbl
   Part No SW: 022 906 032 KJ    HW: 022 906 032 GP
   Component: R32-DQ-EU2      G   0696  
   Revision: 1QH02---    Serial number: VWX7Z0H83NQ7UC
   Coding: 0000178
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 08192
   VCID: 5DE79A6DE133DA1F821-8008

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0100 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.clb
   Part No SW: 02E 300 011 CP    HW: 02E 927 770 AJ
   Component: GSG DSG AG6     431 1812  
   Revision: 04843012    Serial number: 00000804301651
   Coding: 0000020
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 5F9BA065EB3FC80F90D-800A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (-----)       Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AP    HW: 1K0 907 379 AP
   Component: ESP MK60EC1   H45 0107  
   Revision: 00H45001    
   Coding: 143B800D09250002280F01E7901F0041B500
   Shop #: WSC 32782 001 1048576
   VCID: 005983193A0157F7C97-8054

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1K0-907-044.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 044 DE    HW: 1K0 907 044 DE
   Component: ClimatronicPQ35 130 1213  
   Revision: 00130023    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 6D87CAAD1193AA9F121-8038

2 Faults Found:
01810 - Actuating Motor for Temperature Flap; Right (V159) 
            000 - -
00716 - Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113) 
            000 - - - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 3C0-937-049-30-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 3C8 937 049 E    HW: 3C8 937 049 E
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H54 2602  
   Revision: 00H54000    Serial number: 00000008917194
   Coding: E68F8B27000415004714000014000000000900005C000100000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 33331CD537373C6F045-8066

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K1 955 119 E  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer 011008 021  0501  
   Coding: 00038805
   Shop #: WSC 01357  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
   Component: RLS     061008 054  0402  
   Coding: 00207789
   Shop #: WSC 01357  

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 AB    HW: 1K0 909 605 AB
   Component: 5F AIRBAG VW8R  034 8000  
   Revision: 05034000    Serial number: 003B6D0C3GV9  
   Coding: 0013638
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 6C81C7A92A89A39705F-8038

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MSME4116165A5

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MSME4162585FI

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6352QSME380A352CK

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6362QSME700C4F34N

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 BG    HW: 1K0 953 549 BG
   Component: J0527           051 0101  
   Coding: 0012122
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 78A9EBF96ED11F37F17-802C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
   Component: E0221           002 0010

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K6 920 874 B    HW: 1K6 920 874 B
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 2416  
   Revision: V0002000    Serial number: VWX7Z0H83NQ7UC
   Coding: 0007107
   Shop #: WSC 32785 001 104857
   VCID: 323D19D1C82D35670F3-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 Q    HW: 1K0 907 951 
   Component: J533  Gateway   H07 5063  
   Revision:   H07 01    Serial number: 260908F1001064
   Coding: ED837F0E0002020002
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 353722CD3943225F2A1-8060

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 20
                    Reset counter: 50
                    Mileage: 173572 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 22:29:20


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD        Labels: 1K0-907-554.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 907 554 L
   Component: Haldex 4Motion      0116  
   Coding: 0000001
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 363525C12445294723B-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 1K6 920 874 B    HW: 1K6 920 874 B
   Component: IMMO            VDD 2416  
   Revision: V0002000    Serial number: VWX7Z0H83NQ7UC
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 323D19D1C82D35670F3-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels:. 1K0-959-701-MAX3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 701 N    HW: 1K0 959 701 N
   Component: Tuer-SG         006 1219  
   Coding: 0000182
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 392F2EFD155BC63FCE9-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-144-G2V3.clb
   Part No: 1K1 909 144 M
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.141 H08 1901  
   Shop #: WSC 32782 001 1048576
   VCID: 353722CD3943225F2A1-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 BT    HW: 1K0 959 433 BT
   Component:    KSG PQ35 G2  020 0204  
   Revision: 00020000    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 809002005103087F2D0484057008CFC6E0FC00
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 03538C1527174CEFD45-8056

   Subsystem 1 - Component:   Sounder n.mounted     

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 951 178 A
   Component: Neigungssensor  003 0203

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1K0 951 178 A
   Component: Innenraumueberw.003 0203

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels:. 1K0-959-702-MAX3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 702 N    HW: 1K0 959 702 N
   Component: Tuer-SG         006 1219  
   Coding: 0000438
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 3A2D31F1105DCD27C73-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 1T0-907-357.lbl
   Part No: 1T0 907 357 
   Component: Dynamische LWR      0003  
   Coding: 0000004
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 74B1DFC972B97B57DDF-8020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels:. 1K0-959-703-GEN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 703 K    HW: 1K0 959 703 K
   Component: Tuer-SG         006 1302  
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 1012552
   VCID: 38292BF92E51DF37317-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels:. 1K0-959-704-GEN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 704 K    HW: 1K0 959 704 K
   Component: Tuer-SG         006 1302  
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 1012552
   VCID: 392F2EFD155BC63FCE9-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist        Labels: 1K0-919-283.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 919 283 A
   Component: 22 Einparkhilfe     0101  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2D070AADD1136A9F521-8078

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:15, VBatt start/end: 11.9V/12.0V)-----------

Danners74 · Nov 8, 2019

Is the exhaust leak free a the flexi joints? What fuel are you using?

Jack@European_Parts · Nov 8, 2019

Did you crimp off N80 and all intake hoses to isolate?
Have you done a leak down test of injectors plus look at plug's burn patterns?

dieseldub · Nov 8, 2019

Strange that your autoscan shows no codes in the engine computer despite the obvious out of range fuel trim you have going on.

O2 sensor lean code the only fault it sets?

Does it ever set a fuel pressure code? Most of these direct injected gas engines have a control module for the fuel pump to control in-tank pump output via PWM to better dial in pressure and volumes required for the precise operation that direct injection requires.

Not at all unusual for the fuel pump control module to flake out and no longer adequately control the in-tank pump (even a new pump).

A lot of the fuel filters on these cars also have a built in pressure regulator and return. But there are several different ones with different pressures. You have to make doubly sure you get the right filter rated at the correct pressure spec.

Jack@European_Parts · Nov 8, 2019

Do I have to say it because I'm going to?

FOD and purported by whoever?

PetrolDave · Nov 9, 2019

dieseldub said:
Strange that your autoscan shows no codes in the engine computer despite the obvious out of range fuel trim you have going on.

Has the car been chip-tuned?

cas · Nov 10, 2019

Many thanks for the replies everyone

Danners74 said:
Is the exhaust leak free a the flexi joints? What fuel are you using?

As best as I can tell, the flexi pipes aren't leaking. Took a look when the exhaust was off to replace the prop shaft
Using 98 or 95, depending on what is available. It doesn't appear to make any difference.

Jack@European_Parts said:
Did you crimp off N80 and all intake hoses to isolate?
Have you done a leak down test of injectors plus look at plug's burn patterns?

Capped off the EVAP (also had a new solenoid) to check, and the exhaust flapper. All new lines for the intake manifold changeover plumbing. No signs of leaks anywhere else, plus the idle fuel trims seem OK.
Not done a leakdown yet... need to find somewhere suitable around these parts. When I pulled the plugs there was nothing untowards there.

dieseldub said:
Strange that your autoscan shows no codes in the engine computer despite the obvious out of range fuel trim you have going on.

O2 sensor lean code the only fault it sets?

Does it ever set a fuel pressure code? Most of these direct injected gas engines have a control module for the fuel pump to control in-tank pump output via PWM to better dial in pressure and volumes required for the precise operation that direct injection requires.

Not at all unusual for the fuel pump control module to flake out and no longer adequately control the in-tank pump (even a new pump).

A lot of the fuel filters on these cars also have a built in pressure regulator and return. But there are several different ones with different pressures. You have to make doubly sure you get the right filter rated at the correct pressure spec.

When the fuel pump gave up, I was getting error codes. Since replacing the pumps, there haven't been any codes but I have been keeping an eye on the fuel trims.
From what I saw, it only flags up if fuel trim maxs out (+25% in my case). It hasn't done that since I swapped the pumps (new, genuine ones).
I replaced the fuel filter with a new, genuine filter, 4 bar if I recall correctly.
I've never seen a fuel pressure code, but I will look into the fuel pump control module as I hadn't considered that before. Thank you

Jack@European_Parts said:
Do I have to say it because I'm going to?

FOD and purported by whoever?

I hope it isn't FOD, at least in the context I understand it!

PetrolDave said:
Has the car been chip-tuned?

Not to my knowledge, but I guess we never really know what previous owners have done to vehicles

NZDubNurd · Nov 10, 2019

Bare in mind, everybody: this car is EU2 emissions regs. I can't recall the exact differences, but it's possibly only 2 lambdas and a simplified set of codes etc?

Most people on here are going to be dealing with EU4 versions of this car/drive train, only a few markets got EU2.

This motor isn't direct injected - though even VW relased official documented discussing it's direct injection :facepalm:

It's caused quite some confusion at times!

A VERY common issue for this, usually IS leaking flexies - they are a concertina design, and it's hard to spot the crack, which open or close depending on engine movement. I'd certainly concentrate some time there, possibly with somebody applying some back pressure to the exhaust outlets (There isn't a lot of restriction in the R32 system)

cas · Nov 10, 2019

NZDubNurd said:
Bare in mind, everybody: this car is EU2 emissions regs. I can't recall the exact differences, but it's possibly only 2 lambdas and a simplified set of codes etc?

Most people on here are going to be dealing with EU4 versions of this car/drive train, only a few markets got EU2.

This motor isn't direct injected - though even VW relased official documented discussing it's direct injection It's caused quite some confusion at times!

A VERY common issue for this, usually IS leaking flexies - they are a concertina design, and it's hard to spot the crack, which open or close depending on engine movement. I'd certainly concentrate some time there, possibly with somebody applying some back pressure to the exhaust outlets (There isn't a lot of restriction in the R32 system)

That's very useful, thank you very much. Will try to get it up and take a second look.

Jack@European_Parts · Nov 10, 2019

Stupid BUB
Vehicle Identification No. WVWPM51K99W138436
Model golf r32
GOLF
Date of production 24.10.2008
Model year 2009
Sales type 1K14X7
Engine Code BUB
Transmission Code KQA
Emission standard 0GV Emission standard EU2
(critical vapor pressure)

Dunwood · Nov 10, 2019

Danners74 said:
Is the exhaust leak free a the flexi joints? What fuel are you using?

DIY here, thought:
Your vehicle is 173KM or 108K miles. I'm assuming the motor mounts are worn or have been replaced? Or you just stomp on it alot?
Letting them go too long? Maybe damaged flexi-joints? Or maybe they were replaced and but one of the flexi-joints got buggered during installation?
At idle, the flexi-joints (or some other item) is fine. Mid to higher RPM, motor starts moving around due to marginal mounts and then something starts leaking, maybe the flexi-joints?
Air is added pre-Cat via cracked flexi (or other), and frt O2 sensor sends lean condition info to ECU thus added fuel due to fake lean condition. One flexi joint is good, the other bad?
Explains normal op @ idle. Your parts cannon might be out of ammo.....?

cas · Nov 11, 2019

Dunwood said:
DIY here, thought:
Your vehicle is 173KM or 108K miles. I'm assuming the motor mounts are worn or have been replaced? Or you just stomp on it alot?
Letting them go too long? Maybe damaged flexi-joints? Or maybe they were replaced and but one of the flexi-joints got buggered during installation?
At idle, the flexi-joints (or some other item) is fine. Mid to higher RPM, motor starts moving around due to marginal mounts and then something starts leaking, maybe the flexi-joints?
Air is added pre-Cat via cracked flexi (or other), and frt O2 sensor sends lean condition info to ECU thus added fuel due to fake lean condition. One flexi joint is good, the other bad?
Explains normal op @ idle. Your parts cannon might be out of ammo.....?

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree that's possible. Engine mounts have all been done reasonably recently.

Re: parts cannon - they weren't all done for the fuel trim! I was just trying to give some recent history for the vehicle

cas · Nov 13, 2019

I decided to revisit old ground today.

Simultaneously capped off, at the intake manifold:

Exhaust flapper
EVAP
Intake changeover
Brake booster
Noise pipe / resonator

And there was no change on the fuel trims which suggests the vacuum system is fine. That makes sense to me, because the issue is a partial fuel trim (not idle), and it is only affecting one bank.

Which doesn't really get me much further. Still need to look for exhaust leaks giving a false lean, or something along the lines of a bad injector.

Jack@European_Parts · Nov 13, 2019

Spark Plug analysis would show this too no?

cas · Nov 16, 2019

Jack@European_Parts said:
Spark Plug analysis would show this too no?

There was nothing untowards to my (untrained) eye when I pulled them. A touch rich across the board would be my assessment... will take another look when I get the chance.

Thinking about the flexi pipes leaking underload, I remembered why I initially discounted that - the flexi pipes are downstream of the precat sensors, so I don't think a leak there would be able to introduce a false lean?

Zenerdiode · Nov 18, 2019

cas said:
Thinking about the flexi pipes leaking underload, I remembered why I initially discounted that - the flexi pipes are downstream of the precat sensors, so I don't think a leak there would be able to introduce a false lean?

Very good to question it; but because of the pulsed nature of exhaust gasses, combined with the high and low frequency/speed pressure waves, negative pressures (relative to atmospheric) are indeed created in the system. These can 'suck' oxygen-rich fresh air in and up to the sensor.

vwtech · Nov 20, 2019

I know you are not agreeing with flex pipe leaking. Been there!

Read this on a R32 flex pipe causing problems with 02 signal.

https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?10315-B1S1-no-activity-thinking-bad-ECU

Good Luck

cas · Nov 26, 2019

Zenerdiode said:
Very good to question it; but because of the pulsed nature of exhaust gasses, combined with the high and low frequency/speed pressure waves, negative pressures (relative to atmospheric) are indeed created in the system. These can 'suck' oxygen-rich fresh air in and up to the sensor.

Thank you for that, very informative. I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense

cas · Nov 26, 2019

vwtech said:
I know you are not agreeing with flex pipe leaking. Been there!

Read this on a R32 flex pipe causing problems with 02 signal.

https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?10315-B1S1-no-activity-thinking-bad-ECU

Good Luck

Just read through your thread. It is certainly making me lean (pardon the pun) that way. Particularly as I very recently noticed 033 trims zero'ing out like you mention in your OP.

The flex pipes look a little easier to get to on the MkV than you describe about the MkIV. I'm guessing my MkV options are (1) drop the downpipes and cut out/replace the flex pipes, or (2) replace the entire downpipes and cats.

Is that about the measure of it? If so, I'll need to weigh up the chances of a good repair versus splashing out on some aftermarket downpipes with high flow cats.

vwtech · Nov 27, 2019

cas said:
Is that about the measure of it?

If that's a question I don't understand?

Does MKV have SAI with a Kombi valve you can hold open while jumping SAI pump? Then block tail pipes and feel around flex joints?
If O2 zero out then I say same problem. Glad it's got you thinking about flex pipes. Kicked my A$$ for sure figuring it out.
The cats were separate from the down pipe with flex joints on MKIV so I got the whole dealer down pipe no cats.
If cats are part of pipe with flex joints I would think about welding new flex joints? Just get a real good type!!!! That's easier said then done...

Good Luck

2009 R32 - high fuel trim on bank 1

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